[animalspooker]

Deerstalker I think? then they changed the model to something else.

They got sued by someone for using that name. Not sure what they call it now, but they're a hot commodity.

 

[Ron The Legend]

They got sued by someone for using that name. Not sure what they call it now, but they're a hot commodity.

They got sued by Ithica because they used the same name on their shotgun.

 

[reverendg]

They got sued by Ithica because they used the same name on their shotgun.

True. I have one of those.

 

[animalspooker]

^^^ At least I got the "SUED" part right!

 

[Ranger4]

I have always had a 9MM Carbine of some kind since I got my gun license. They are super fun to shoot, teach new shooters without much recoil, cheap to find 9mm ammo, plus you can share mags with some 9MM pistols. My current 9 Carbine is a Marlin Camp Carbine that I picked up used pre Covid for $650. I have a S&W 915 that takes the same mags,
plus I also have a Glock 19😁 perhaps a future purchase? View attachment 183052

We have a model 9 carbine and model 915 in the family. Dandy combo.

 

[Ranger4]

After 30 + years of carrying my AR-7, I decided I needed more firepower. I decided on the Keltec sub2000. Talk about a great combo, same magazines and ammo as my Glock 19. It took me a month to find the right sling pack to carry the carbine. No one would suspect a carbine in a tackle backpack. View attachment 183048

I have the same combo, had the Glock 19 since 1990 and the KelTecSub2000 about 3-4 years. Both are threaded and while not necessarily quiet, I can fire it without hearing protection. Anytime we travel now, those two go along. I carry 4-5 of the standard 15 round mags and one of the 33 round mags. I just toss the back pack in the back floor of the truck. If we stay in a cabin or hotel or anywhere it is there, like a spare tire, if you might need it. The fact that it folds down to 17 inches or so and fits into a backpack is a big deal. You can flip it open, chamber a round and ready to go in a few seconds. It is not even noticeable if you are hiking with it in a pack.

 

[mrmike7189]

We have a model 9 carbine and model 915 in the family. Dandy combo.

Sure is...love that I can share magazines. The 915

 

[Ranger4]

Sure is...love that I can share magazines. The 915 View attachment 183363

Those 3rd generation Smith and Wessons like the 915 and similar 40 are great guns. The Glocks of the world killed producton but personally I liked them better that Sig. More like a DA/SA Highpower that anything else to me, but just a really nice handgun for anything a 9mm or 40 could be used for. Always wanted one in the 40, 411 I think but never could find one.

 

[40nascar]

I see some reference to Deerfield. Original was deerstalker, with tube feed. Later came the 4 round mag.

"Deerstalker" for a short time until the Ithica lawsuit, the it became the "44 carbine" ( tube feed ). The later "Deerfield" had a 4 rnd flush fitting rotary mag, and a handguard similar to a mini 14. The detach mag is common to Ruger's 96/44 lever action, and is still available.

 

[40nascar]

Everyone has memories of guns they should have bought when they had the chance, but didn't. One of mine is a Marlin Camp Carbine in 9x19. It was one of the early ones in 9mm, handled nicely, I don't recall what magazine it took except it was not a Glock as they are made now (I want to say it was for the Walther P-38 but I am probably wrong).

Marlin made the Camp 9mm so that it would take S&W model 59 magazines. The model 59 was one of the early " wonder nine" 9mm pistols with a high capacity magazine of 15 rounds. That pistol was one of the first 9mm pistols to be issued to Law Enforcement officers. The updated model 5900 & 6900's came later.

Marlin made magazines of 4, 12, and 20 round capacity for their camp 9mm carbine.

 

[Ranger4]

Marlin made the Camp 9mm so that it would take S&W model 59 magazines. The model 59 was one of the early " wonder nine" 9mm pistols with a high capacity magazine of 15 rounds. That pistol was one of the first 9mm pistols to be issued to Law Enforcement officers. The updated model 5900 & 6900's came later.

Marlin made magazines of 4, 12, and 20 round capacity for their camp 9mm carbine.

Yes. This from Wicki:

The Camp Carbine came with an odd 12 round magazine. But not really, Smith and Wesson had already released they model 469 and later 669 (stainless) compact models. The 469 was made manufactured from 1983 to 1988. So, the 12 round magazines for the compact 59 series fit, as do all of the longer magazines.

All according to a wise plan at the time. FWIW

 

[Ranger4]

SEMI-AUTO RIFLES (cdnnsports.com) CDNN has a sale or $100 rebate on the KelTec Sub2000. They are $389 in both 40 SW and 9mm. I paid $450 there about 3-4 years ago. And the come with a free 3 x 9 x 40 Weaver scope. This is a good deal and will not last long. I do NOT need a second one in 40 SW. I do not need a second one in 40 SW, I do not need a second one in 40 SW.......it even comes in green.

This is the velocity and power a 40 SW gets from a 16 inch tube.

All of the Corbon loads are in the 650 -800 fpe range of power. My 44 mag pistol with 4 inch barrel and standard factory ammo is a little over 800 foot pounds.

The 9mm carbine is not quite so powerful, however, you can get 600 fpe, in full 357 mag power. The advantage of the 40 SW is that 700-800 fpe is with 150 and 165 grain bullets, the 9mm is with 115 or 125 grain. It matters if there are bears or hogs. Seems to me.

The Sub2000 in the small backpack has replaced my SKS, Model 94, and 300 BLK on camping and travel. Just too easy. The 40 would prolly be better.....


FWIW They will be gone so act quickly.

 

[mrmike7189]

To tell you the truth, the Camp 45 would be my preference. You can always find M1911 and M1911A1 magazines.

Super Rare ...compared to the Camp 9 . I think they made fewer of the 45's ? But if you find one, at least 1911 magazines are plentiful everywhere!😁

 

[Ranger4]

Super Rare ...compared to the Camp 9 . I think they made fewer of the 45's ? But if you find one, at least 1911 magazines are plentiful everywhere!😁
View attachment 183573

Buddies and I had 2 of the 9mm and one in 45acp. I always wanted one in 45 but after shooting reliazed I was better off with the 9mm. They are a weak design and the import surplus ammo is what destroyed them. All of that import 9mm ammo was hot and most in the Plus P range or hotter. People would not read the manual and did not replace the buffers and they got battered to pieces. So Marlin dropped them from sales. Personally I thought Marlin could have fixed the problem by just added a block of 1/4 inch steel or allow or even an additional buffer to the rear of the receiver and resolved the problem. However, there were much better guns they could not compete with, like the Mini 14 and 39 which also fired rounds suitable for hunting. Oh wel.....

The book says to replace the buffer every 1,500 rounds IIRC. That and staying away from Plus P and I suspect one would last forever. I recall guys treating them like an AR or SKS, just burning up the ammo, and of course they were not made to be a military weapon, they were made to he a handy gun around the campsight.

The other problem I found was that the gun would shoot a tiny group at 50 yards, about 1 inch. But move out to 100 yards and you could not find what you were shooing at, the pattern went wild. So we went back to 50 yards where it shot great, then to 60 yards and so on. What we found was that at about 65 yards the pattern fell apart. Wha happens is the 9mm in a handgun is fired at close range so everything is fine. In the carbine, the velocity increased about 200 fps, which put the round above the speed of sound. Do, out to 65 yards the bullet was supersonic, and at the distance slowed down to subsonic. Long range shooters will have guessed what happens. When a bullet slows from supersonic to subsonic, many bullet designs will begin to yaw. Anyway, we had a 1 inch group at 50 yards and about an 8 inch group at 75 yards. So, practically speaking it was fine sitting around a campground. However, they did not make a good farm gun where you might have shots at coyotes out beyond 50 yards.

Don my buddy with the 45 loved his but seldom took it out. The reason was the trajectory. A 45 acp ball round has a pretty dramatic bullet drop. I ran the numbers just for grins and they are below. The handgun round would go about 870 fps. It would speed up to as much as 1,100 fps in the longer barrel. The best distance to sight it in was 50 yards, which meant the bullet would be nearly 8 inches low at 100 yards, but by 200 yards had dropped over 4 feet. So, any practical use like for any kind of hunting would be limited to about 75 yards. So, rounds like the 22 mag were just a better round when you had a trajectory like that. So, yes they are more of a fun gun thanns com a practical gun, but I sure did like them. And would have one again at a reasonable price. They are not a heavy duty gun, but they are fun for short range shooting.

Guns come and go. I liked it better than the Ruger carbines and better than my Keltec, but it did not fold up like the Little KelTec. Anybody that finds one, those buffers are cheap and easy to change, just to it and they will last.

 

[40nascar]

I think I may just go ahead and preorder the New S&W carbine that has all the advantages of the Kel-tec or Ruger, but none of the negatives. The Ruger PCC is probably the most durable ( and heavy) of the bunch. Sportsman's Warehouse is taking pre-orders for the S&W.

The online reviews have convinced me that the Kel-tec 's live down to their reputation of not holding up well over time. That, and it's not optimal for mounting optics. I'll pass on it.

 

[Txhillbilly]

I think I may just go ahead and preorder the New S&W carbine that has all the advantages of the Kel-tec or Ruger, but none of the negatives. The Ruger PCC is probably the most durable ( and heavy) of the bunch. Sportsman's Warehouse is taking pre-orders for the S&W.

The online reviews have convinced me that the Kel-tec 's live down to their reputation of not holding up well over time. That, and it's not optimal for mounting optics. I'll pass on it.

I've had my Sub 2k for several years, and it has held up very well as well as being very reliable. Granted, I did swap out a most of the factory parts with MCARBO upgrades before I ever fired it. If MCARBO would've offered a complete upgraded 40 S&W version like they do with the 9mm version, I would've bought it to begin with.
Mounting optics is pretty simple and very reliable with the MCARBO mount. My gun / optic has always stayed zeroed ever since I set it up.
The only real negative's I have with the Sub 2k is a poor cheek weld when trying to shoot it with open sights, and the recoil that this little carbine dishes out. I fixed the recoil issue by custom fabricating a Kick-Eez recoil pad on the back of the butt stock.

I also have a Ruger PCC in 40 S&W.
The Ruger PCC is not without some negatives. It's a heavy turd, and as usual with Ruger, the trigger really sucks. While it does take down, it is nowhere near as handy as the Sub 2k that just folds in half.
Luckily, Volquartzen makes a great drop in trigger pack for the Ruger. But it is pricey, and worth every penny over the stock trigger.

 

[40nascar]

If you have to take your optic off the Kel-tec every time you want to fold it, how is that a better system than the Ruger, or the New Smith? Where you can leave your optic on the firearm.

 

[reverendg]

The kel-tec mount for optics flips sideways to allow the weapon to fold. No removal needed.

 

[Txhillbilly]

If you have to take your optic off the Kel-tec every time you want to fold it, how is that a better system than the Ruger, or the New Smith? Where you can leave your optic on the firearm.

Like reverendg said, the MCARBO optics mount flips off to the side of the fore end to either fold the weapon or use the open sights. They make a LH and RH version of the mount. Mine is a LH version.
Midwest also makes an optics mount for the Sub 2k, but it is more complicated to use compared to the MCARBO mount.

 

[40nascar]

I can buy a new Smith for the same money ( or less ) than a Kel-Tec with MCARBO replacement parts. And the S&W doesn't need it's key parts replaced because of cheaply made parts. I've owned a Kel-Tec before, and that will never happen again. Even after returning the carbine to them for repair, it came back to me as a jam-o-matic because of incorrect ( Too little) headspace. I Replaced it with a Ruger mini 14 and never looked back.

Nope, I will not buy their junk again. The bad ergonomics, and sharp ( for a pistol cartridge) recoil are the icing on the cake for their Sub2000, IMHO.