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Resident Curmudgeon
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
This showed up in my Facebook feed this morning. It originates from the Many Stupid Nitwits, which by my standard makes it suspect. As the giggle switch -- if it is a real thing -- is apparently a device applicable to Glocks, and I am not a Glock owner, I can't judge if this is a real thing or some nonsense cooked up by the leftist scum.

Has anyone in the Band of Fellers who groks Glocks, or any of our LEO members, heard of this thing? Is it real? What can you tell us about it?

 

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I thought it was just a reference to the trigger.
Could be the selector switch found on the Glock 18…to enable full auto fire?
 

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Hmm, sounds from the article that it is something made on a 3D printer to make a Glock behave as if it's fully auto. Being as they do not want to spawn a proliferation of them, that would explain why they don't provide any details about the design or an in depth description of it.
 

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Considering the extremely fast fire rate of a full auto pistol, the goblin will burn his whole magazine in one trigger pull. Accuracy goes down the crapper. Really dangerous only due to a lot of bullets let fly in one go, willy-nilly. Talk about "spray and pray"!
 

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Glock pistols are of a design in which it is trivial to modify their firing mode to go from semi-auto to automatic. One type of device that does this is shown in this thread. There was a great deal of tumult when one or more Chinese companies were shipping these things en masse to the US to anyone who would pony up the funds. They are real. Licensed SOT Manufacturers can legally make them, but they are not for general civilian ownership.
 

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Its just an aftermarket sear and couple other parts to make the gun a machine gun. Its a different design than the original factory glock 18C which kept all those parts internally within the slide.

Legal NFA / SOTs can also use them when they legally make machine guns as well.

These are not new and have been out there (illegally) on the street for a few years now.
 

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I remember seeing them for sale not too long ago. I figured it came with a guaranteed visit from the feds for anyone who ordered. Wish has a history of turning over order records to the US Gvt anytime they ask.
 

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I remember seeing them for sale not too long ago. I figured it came with a guaranteed visit from the feds for anyone who ordered. Wish has a history of turning over order records to the US Gvt anytime they ask.

If the atf was really about enforcing existing laws, they would have done exactly that! instead they are busy making defining pistol braces so complex that virtually anyone who has one would be a felon... they cant even track down existing criminals and are busy trying to create new ones!
 

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Gun Toting Boeing Driver
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Article sounds like propaganda and showing an abused or poorly cobbled together gun. Standard anti-gun statist act.

Bump stocks, slide fire devices, coat-hanger f/a fire control mechanisms, this, etc.

While it might be fun to rip through a large magazine on something like a Glock 18, most of us know this doesn't make the gun any more 'deadly' and just results in more inaccurate spraying of fire. Usually with an unskilled operator spraying that fire into the mostly empty space that exists pretty much everywhere.

While I think everyone enjoys some F/A fire at some point in their life (the F-15 cannon was around 4200 rounds per minute), I can't imagine a use for something like this in a Glock amongst people who actually shoot pistols and use them as tools. Perhaps SOMEONE, SOMEWHERE does, but I think this is just one of those sensational propaganda pieces to make folks think that some folks are running amok with home made machine guns.
 
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I'm not sure what you mean by propaganda. This device has been a known quantity for quite sometime. And while the concept of Glock as machine pistol may not present you with a reasonable mode of utility, utility is not the point of the situation. The point is that the device is quite simple and not at all difficult to install. There absolutely were 1,000's of these pretty much complete devices flooding the market from China. And people absolutely were buying them and installing them. Making a machine gun is a pretty tightly regulated activity and the feds were significantly concerned and took action. There absolutely were a metric butt ton of these in play. That is not insignificant and as long as it is illegal, required action by the feds.

I actually am a licensed 07/SOT and have made about a half dozen of these (legally). I know many rural police departments that have LE's carrying them (think: nasty dog calls). I, like you, am not impressed with the utility of such a weapon. But utility does not appear to be the driving force. The desire to display/deploy overwhelming firepower is. Results be damned. There are many 1,000's of legal devices on the books. It is reasonable to assume that with the China flood... a lot more illegal ones gestated.
 

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I'm not sure what you mean by propaganda. This device has been a known quantity for quite sometime. And while the concept of Glock as machine pistol may not present you with a reasonable mode of utility, utility is not the point of the situation. The point is that the device is quite simple and not at all difficult to install. There absolutely were 1,000's of these pretty much complete devices flooding the market from China. And people absolutely were buying them and installing them. Making a machine gun is a pretty tightly regulated activity and the feds were significantly concerned and took action. There absolutely were a metric butt ton of these in play. That is not insignificant and as long as it is illegal, required action by the feds.

I actually am a licensed 07/SOT and have made about a half dozen of these (legally). I know many rural police departments that have LE's carrying them (think: nasty dog calls). I, like you, am not impressed with the utility of such a weapon. But utility does not appear to be the driving force. The desire to display/deploy overwhelming firepower is. Results be damned. There are many 1,000's of legal devices on the books. It is reasonable to assume that with the China flood... a lot more illegal ones gestated.
Have another look and read of the article in the OP.

It starts off with an 'ugly' picture of a Glock-clone (probably a poly-80 or similar; can't tell what slide it is) with a beat up or crude slide. Subliminal rhetoric.

Second sentence (from article):

“It’s a big problem; it’s a huge problem,” D.C. police Cmdr. Ramey Kyle said. “You know, guns are inherently dangerous, and with these switches, that’s magnified 10, 20 times.”

Ummmmm......yeah........ What's scary to me is there's a police supervisor somewhere who spews this drivel. Someone who should (and probably DOES) know better, while also ignoring the source document he's or she's sworn to (which allows the RKBA).

Again, more anti-gun rhetoric--much like "Assault Rifle". Whatever this is doesn't make the gun any more 'dangerous' or in any way magnify their 'dangerosity' -- except perhaps to an untrained user who might injure himself with it. It PERHAPS makes the gun fire faster than someone normally might fire it, but then again Jerry Miculek or the Jelly Brices of the past could empty revolvers (and reload them) pretty [email protected] fast (and actually hit things) so I'd think of a revolver in THESE gentleman's hands much more 'dangerous' (to whatever they might wanna hit) than some Chinese POS designed to make a poly-80 or a Glock fire f/a. In fact, I would think (much like slide fire stocks) that such a device would have reliability issues--taking away THE most important factor in ANY gun anywhere. Anything that makes a gun LESS reliable needs to be avoided like the plague.

The article goes on:

“It’s scary; it’s absolutely scary,” Kyle said. “It’s scary for our officers that are out there recovering these firearms. It’s scary for the citizens, you know, these switches, these handguns are being used in their community.”

I don't know of ONE shooting by a F/A modified handgun or where this thing has presented any additional threat to anyone anywhere. Other than it being gee whiz and illegal I don't see much of a story or threat here. Same thing for slide fire and bump stocks; they were allegedly USED in the Vegas shooting and exploited for their 'scary' factor (and later banned by an errant Trump ATF and then unbanned by the courts). We all know how little AR platforms are used in actual shootings (and comprise a VERY VERY small fraction of crimes committed with firearms) yet are the first thing anti-gunners go after because they LOOK scary and are roughly equivalent to the most common patrol rifle used by LE in the nation (the whole point of the 2A being that if the cops or entities of the state get it WE get it). Did the slide fire devices enhance the injuries/death in the Vegas case ? Nope. It just made things sound scarier.

There's alot of empty space out there. Even in one of the most crowded places on the planet (a full commercial airplane) the average density of an aircraft cabin is similar to that of styrofoam (at least before people began packing their carry-ons with everything they could cram into them). Most of the world as we know it is empty space save for air. A device which not only makes a gun less reliable but also sprays bullets (into empty space) I'd hardly think as of something to get excited over (at least for a trained LE professional assessing a threat). So to me the article is just one more piece of 'scary' propaganda (like every OTHER anti-gun propaganda article--or most of the entire COVID nonsense). You don't get any MORE 'firepower' out of crap like this (the device in the OP); you simply get something that might (or might not) go bang faster than you can make it go bangy with your finger, at the expense of lack of controllability and accuracy and gun reliability. Doesn't sound like a good deal to me for any purpose someone might use a handgun for.

I'm not debating the usefulness of F/A fire; the 50 cal on our track was certainly useful in GW1, and achieving a guns track on a maneuvering BG -- even WITH a 20mm cannon which has a radar computing sight and roughly 4200 RPM (in the 'high' setting) is a very hard thing to do (at least if the adversary pilot is competent)--and also a reason why missiles exist and (other than an A-10 who shot down a helicopter) why there have been NO US A-A guns kills since Vietnam (even with some phenomenal gee-whiz equipment ON our canted 20mm cannon). Within it's setting F/A is fun and awesome and the A-10 is an amazing platform (at least against slower moving land-based vehicles)--so IT'S gun is certainly useful (somewhat unlike ours on the F-15E for A/G strafe where using any type of bomb would usually be a better choice) . But a Chinese F/A piece o' crap doesn't turn a Glock or poly-80 into some scary weapon o' death and the OP article is simply one more rhetorical anti-gun hit job.

Is there a 'need' for LE to have F/A firearms ? Dunno. Perhaps TAC could chime in to how it might be helpful in some of their situations. I don't see alot of situations where they would be, but then again I'm not in THEIR situation nor do I do what they do on a daily basis. Would a F/A device on a duty handgun in any way be useful for LE ? I REALLY doubt it but again would defer to someone with real experience to make a case as to how it might (I wouldn't want one on any of MY handguns even IF they were legal which they aren't).

And kindly note I'm not knocking F/A firing (or even slide firing) for the 'fun' factor. What I AM saying is the article is propaganda in that somehow this is either a problem OR it makes a handgun more 'deadly' than it already is. In fact, for a non-expert quite the opposite.

SHOULD the NFA be there in the first place ? Nope. I don't think it ever got a fair shake when implemented (and is unlikely to moving forward) in the courts but we can all read 'shall not be infringed' and it IS an infringement (if state entities can bear F/A firearms, then common citizens get them too--again the intent of the 2A). SHOULD a regular Joe or Jane be able to own a Thompson (or equivalent) unrestricted ? Yup. But we all know that's not the case and for now such a thing would be felonious (and many of us DO legally own suppressors and the like for which we've gone through the NFA process). In fact, some rogue government entities are now trying to go after stuff (like braces) declared for years to be legal by the same entity that would now try to ban them (likely losing in the courts; you can't tell millions of folks yesterday something is OK and then tomorrow it's not without a legislative change).

Given the huge amount of rhetoric surrounding the WuFlu, and accentuated by anti-gun drivel as well as the 'climate change' nonsense, my radar gets pinged when I read articles full of leftist bumper sticker rhetoric (and perhaps I'm getting a bit more sensitive than need be). FWIW, as a former non-civilian, it might be quibbling but we need remember cops and other LE ARE 'civilians' -- just like us -- with some simple authorities like the authority to arrest (which does NOT put them in a 'special' category of non-civilian). What they get we get. Even for most of the bona fide NON civilian categories (common arms of the military) the entire intent of the 2A IS that we'd (the regular folks out here) be at least as well armed with the common arms OF a potential captor military (whether that'd be our own government or that of a foreign nation). I think we need be REAL careful in categorizing (or giving special status to) LE forces; they're regular folks just like us (as far as equipment goes) who have a few authorizations (of power of enforcement of arrest) that us common folks might not have. As people who support the 2A--and are a part of the narrative--it's important we hammer this home and stay on point and message. Just because someone wears a badge does NOT mean they get armament that the rest of us don't, or get special 'privileges' in keeping it and bearing it (or in where they can keep and bear it). A common citizen has the same 2A RKBA that any LE might have (who is a common citizen as well). They are NOT in some 'special' category that regular folks aren't. They are folks just like us. And we ALL have a responsibility to self and state to be competent in the bearing of arms against threats--whatever those might be.

Bottom line for me is if there were thousands (or millions) of these things floating around out there to me it wouldn't raise an eyebrow. Just more stuff for tools that I wouldn't see an experienced shooter having much use for. Not alot different than the slide-fire stuff (which I never had a use for either).
 

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who can afford to shoot FA these days anyways!?

seriously though, these things probably do make it more dangerous, for the shooter and for inoccent bystanders who get caught in a gangsters spray and pray drive by.. of course they've been in danger with out these anyways, look at chi town.
 

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Considering the extremely fast fire rate of a full auto pistol, the goblin will burn his whole magazine in one trigger pull. Accuracy goes down the crapper. Really dangerous only due to a lot of bullets let fly in one go, willy-nilly. Talk about "spray and pray"!
They use them for drive bys. Those 33 round magazines will send a message.
 

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Have another look and read of the article in the OP.

It starts off with an 'ugly' picture of a Glock-clone (probably a poly-80 or similar; can't tell what slide it is) with a beat up or crude slide. Subliminal rhetoric.

Second sentence (from article):

“It’s a big problem; it’s a huge problem,” D.C. police Cmdr. Ramey Kyle said. “You know, guns are inherently dangerous, and with these switches, that’s magnified 10, 20 times.”

Ummmmm......yeah........ What's scary to me is there's a police supervisor somewhere who spews this drivel. Someone who should (and probably DOES) know better, while also ignoring the source document he's or she's sworn to (which allows the RKBA).

Again, more anti-gun rhetoric--much like "Assault Rifle". Whatever this is doesn't make the gun any more 'dangerous' or in any way magnify their 'dangerosity' -- except perhaps to an untrained user who might injure himself with it. It PERHAPS makes the gun fire faster than someone normally might fire it, but then again Jerry Miculek or the Jelly Brices of the past could empty revolvers (and reload them) pretty [email protected] fast (and actually hit things) so I'd think of a revolver in THESE gentleman's hands much more 'dangerous' (to whatever they might wanna hit) than some Chinese POS designed to make a poly-80 or a Glock fire f/a. In fact, I would think (much like slide fire stocks) that such a device would have reliability issues--taking away THE most important factor in ANY gun anywhere. Anything that makes a gun LESS reliable needs to be avoided like the plague.

The article goes on:

“It’s scary; it’s absolutely scary,” Kyle said. “It’s scary for our officers that are out there recovering these firearms. It’s scary for the citizens, you know, these switches, these handguns are being used in their community.”

I don't know of ONE shooting by a F/A modified handgun or where this thing has presented any additional threat to anyone anywhere. Other than it being gee whiz and illegal I don't see much of a story or threat here. Same thing for slide fire and bump stocks; they were allegedly USED in the Vegas shooting and exploited for their 'scary' factor (and later banned by an errant Trump ATF and then unbanned by the courts). We all know how little AR platforms are used in actual shootings (and comprise a VERY VERY small fraction of crimes committed with firearms) yet are the first thing anti-gunners go after because they LOOK scary and are roughly equivalent to the most common patrol rifle used by LE in the nation (the whole point of the 2A being that if the cops or entities of the state get it WE get it). Did the slide fire devices enhance the injuries/death in the Vegas case ? Nope. It just made things sound scarier.

There's alot of empty space out there. Even in one of the most crowded places on the planet (a full commercial airplane) the average density of an aircraft cabin is similar to that of styrofoam (at least before people began packing their carry-ons with everything they could cram into them). Most of the world as we know it is empty space save for air. A device which not only makes a gun less reliable but also sprays bullets (into empty space) I'd hardly think as of something to get excited over (at least for a trained LE professional assessing a threat). So to me the article is just one more piece of 'scary' propaganda (like every OTHER anti-gun propaganda article--or most of the entire COVID nonsense). You don't get any MORE 'firepower' out of crap like this (the device in the OP); you simply get something that might (or might not) go bang faster than you can make it go bangy with your finger, at the expense of lack of controllability and accuracy and gun reliability. Doesn't sound like a good deal to me for any purpose someone might use a handgun for.

I'm not debating the usefulness of F/A fire; the 50 cal on our track was certainly useful in GW1, and achieving a guns track on a maneuvering BG -- even WITH a 20mm cannon which has a radar computing sight and roughly 4200 RPM (in the 'high' setting) is a very hard thing to do (at least if the adversary pilot is competent)--and also a reason why missiles exist and (other than an A-10 who shot down a helicopter) why there have been NO US A-A guns kills since Vietnam (even with some phenomenal gee-whiz equipment ON our canted 20mm cannon). Within it's setting F/A is fun and awesome and the A-10 is an amazing platform (at least against slower moving land-based vehicles)--so IT'S gun is certainly useful (somewhat unlike ours on the F-15E for A/G strafe where using any type of bomb would usually be a better choice) . But a Chinese F/A piece o' crap doesn't turn a Glock or poly-80 into some scary weapon o' death and the OP article is simply one more rhetorical anti-gun hit job.

Is there a 'need' for LE to have F/A firearms ? Dunno. Perhaps TAC could chime in to how it might be helpful in some of their situations. I don't see alot of situations where they would be, but then again I'm not in THEIR situation nor do I do what they do on a daily basis. Would a F/A device on a duty handgun in any way be useful for LE ? I REALLY doubt it but again would defer to someone with real experience to make a case as to how it might (I wouldn't want one on any of MY handguns even IF they were legal which they aren't).

And kindly note I'm not knocking F/A firing (or even slide firing) for the 'fun' factor. What I AM saying is the article is propaganda in that somehow this is either a problem OR it makes a handgun more 'deadly' than it already is. In fact, for a non-expert quite the opposite.

SHOULD the NFA be there in the first place ? Nope. I don't think it ever got a fair shake when implemented (and is unlikely to moving forward) in the courts but we can all read 'shall not be infringed' and it IS an infringement (if state entities can bear F/A firearms, then common citizens get them too--again the intent of the 2A). SHOULD a regular Joe or Jane be able to own a Thompson (or equivalent) unrestricted ? Yup. But we all know that's not the case and for now such a thing would be felonious (and many of us DO legally own suppressors and the like for which we've gone through the NFA process). In fact, some rogue government entities are now trying to go after stuff (like braces) declared for years to be legal by the same entity that would now try to ban them (likely losing in the courts; you can't tell millions of folks yesterday something is OK and then tomorrow it's not without a legislative change).

Given the huge amount of rhetoric surrounding the WuFlu, and accentuated by anti-gun drivel as well as the 'climate change' nonsense, my radar gets pinged when I read articles full of leftist bumper sticker rhetoric (and perhaps I'm getting a bit more sensitive than need be). FWIW, as a former non-civilian, it might be quibbling but we need remember cops and other LE ARE 'civilians' -- just like us -- with some simple authorities like the authority to arrest (which does NOT put them in a 'special' category of non-civilian). What they get we get. Even for most of the bona fide NON civilian categories (common arms of the military) the entire intent of the 2A IS that we'd (the regular folks out here) be at least as well armed with the common arms OF a potential captor military (whether that'd be our own government or that of a foreign nation). I think we need be REAL careful in categorizing (or giving special status to) LE forces; they're regular folks just like us (as far as equipment goes) who have a few authorizations (of power of enforcement of arrest) that us common folks might not have. As people who support the 2A--and are a part of the narrative--it's important we hammer this home and stay on point and message. Just because someone wears a badge does NOT mean they get armament that the rest of us don't, or get special 'privileges' in keeping it and bearing it (or in where they can keep and bear it). A common citizen has the same 2A RKBA that any LE might have (who is a common citizen as well). They are NOT in some 'special' category that regular folks aren't. They are folks just like us. And we ALL have a responsibility to self and state to be competent in the bearing of arms against threats--whatever those might be.

Bottom line for me is if there were thousands (or millions) of these things floating around out there to me it wouldn't raise an eyebrow. Just more stuff for tools that I wouldn't see an experienced shooter having much use for. Not alot different than the slide-fire stuff (which I never had a use for either).
From the former LEO side, I once ran a joint military civilian drug task force. Sometime around 1979-80 the Supreme Court ruled that drug stings were legal. So, all the task for units across the nation along with DEA, started going out and putting the word out that there were some guys selling marijuana by the pound or up to 100 pounds. They would be at a certain hotel for only one night at certain hours, they were coming from California be here the one night and then gone forever. I remember we had 5 military active duty guys in one location, the others would be civilians. Some of them showed up armed. I recall one with a 357 Dan Wesson and a 25 in his pocket. We had him on tape saying that the Dan Wesson was chosen because it had removable barrels so if he had to cap someone, he would just throw the barrel away and the ballistics would not come back to his gun. When asked if he had every capped anyone he just grinned and said he had been through a few barrels. Pretty funny when the defense attorney later saw the video. He bought 5 pounds. When we went out to secure his car, he had a toddler in it. How many people take a 2 year old to a drug deal? Many I know from the videos.
On other case where we did buy bust, the informant would do the deal then say some code word and we would rush in and arrest everyone including him. In one case a phone rang and the psycho dealer spun around and shot the phone. So we considered using full auto for those more intense deals. The military said absolutely no. They did want undercover military away from military base cutting loose with MP 5s. So, we were restricted to 45s and shotguns. Also, lot of those deals happen in apartments.

On the civilian side, the Oklahoma Bureau of Narcotics had some cases go south. On of by buddies got shot, one round through his lip and one in his gut. But while falling he dropped his shotgun and blew a chunk off of his leg. So, they decided they needed more firepower. The Director of the Agency a former Army Intel officer in Viet Nam and former Oklahoma City Police chief, and a former college professor part time refused to let them use the five (5) MP 5s they bought. So, they said idle for years. The risk of hitting too many innocent inside or next door was just too great.

In my case then and latter in civilian law enforcement I carried a 1911 on every entry, and a 357 on my hip. I never shot anyone, but usually carried the glaser safety slug as the first round and those Black Talons or the flying ashtray as my follow up rounds.

I have no clue what SWAT does today, others have already commented, I could see a use maybe for LE, but not for me. Now if I was hiking in Yellow Stone a full auto Glock 10 mm my be OK.
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
Years back, I read about an interesting .22LR submachine gun one of the manufacturers (I think Calico, but I might be wrong) had devised for use by SWAT teams. It harked back to the infantry philosophy of World War II: The full auto shooter sprays the area to keep the bad guys' heads down, and the riflemen do the killing with aimed rifle fire. The .22 wouldn't tear holes in the walls like a battle rifle, and the sound of .22 bullets going wheet past their ears was just as salutary as heavier rounds. I don't know how many departments adopted the full auto, or how it worked out in the field, but I think it would be delightful to own one. And it would probably be more accurate than those giggle-switched Glocks.
 
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This showed up in my Facebook feed this morning. It originates from the Many Stupid Nitwits, which by my standard makes it suspect. As the giggle switch -- if it is a real thing -- is apparently a device applicable to Glocks, and I am not a Glock owner, I can't judge if this is a real thing or some nonsense cooked up by the leftist scum.

Has anyone in the Band of Fellers who groks Glocks, or any of our LEO members, heard of this thing? Is it real? What can you tell us about it?

 

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Yes they are very real. The crazy part about is that a teenager told me about the giggle switch also know as the switch in my neighborhood. Damn near everyone has one smh. $250-$500.
 
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