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Old man, No tact...
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I actually thought that she would like the smaller guns, but it turns out that she has big hands and needs something a little bigger. We tried a .38 hammerless revolver but it had to much pop, and the regular sized one was just to big. She handled the 9mm's well, but wants to try a .380 (there is a dif between .380 and .38 right?)
Remember, there will likely be less perceived recoil from a larger/heavier handgun.

.380 is much shorter than a .38. Most of the time (I personally can't say ALWAYS) .380's are fed to semi-autos, and .38's are fed to revolvers.
 

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She handled the 9mm's well, but wants to try a .380 (there is a dif between .380 and .38 right?)
Definitely a difference between .380 and .38.
The .380 is most closely comparable to a 9mm. In fact, a 9mm Kurtz (or 9mm short) *is* a .380.
 

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The .380 is about equal to the .38 S&W (which was commonly used before the .38 Special came out). The British Webley revolver of WW II fame was chambered for .38 S&W.

Jay is correct about the .380 being semi-auto and the .38 Spl being revolverfor the most part; however there was a couple semi-autos that were chambered for the .38 Spl years back.

The .380 has become a very popular caliber for ccw and the handguns range from extra small belly guns to medium framed all purpose handguns.

I carry a Taurus PT-58 (12+1) which is similar to the Beretta M-85. The grips fill the larger hand very well. It's easy to rack too.

There's quite a selection of .380's to be had.

My wife has a Walther PPK/S but that was before we fired the Sig 238...man, that is a nice shooter.
 

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.380 has less power than the .38spl +P. In theory the .380 could be hand-loaded hotter, but slugs and guns aren't designed for it. In contrast, .38spl +P is the standard for self defense in that round, so it's readily available, and designed for the higher velocity.

I carry a .38+P right now, and I consider it to be on the heals of the 9mm in effectiveness. I'm sacrificing a little, but the dang thing is GREAT for concealment, fits in my pocket, or under my tucked in shirt, with NO trace. Great for meeting clients, or going about town in my dress clothes. I intend to upgrade to a subcompact .45, but for now, this works.

If she likes the 9mm, I say stick with those. Those are the smallest autos that you can practically guarantee to stop an attacker in one shot with. Get the most gun that she can conceal and bring to bare.
 

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Old man, No tact...
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If she likes the 9mm, I say stick with those. Those are the smallest autos that you can practically guarantee to stop an attacker in one shot with. Get the most gun that she can conceal and bring to bare.
I'd suggest that any caliber preference comes into play ONLY AFTER shot placement lands a given projectile on a given spot on the target. If you shoot a person in the leg with a 9mm, and I shoot the same sized person in the eye, with a .22..... well, see my point?
 

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Oh, of course, but if you shoot someone in the dead center of the chest (perfect placement for the way most of us practice) the person shot with the 9mm will stop hostile action faster than the same shot placement with a .380, given the same quality of defensive ammo.

With ANY given shot placement, the attacker is likely to stop sooner with a higher energy round, given quality defensive ammo.

Shot placement is KING, caliber is queen, quality ammo is non-negotiable.

SO, to elaborate on your point, the round that she practices with the most is the best one, but if she already likes the 9mm, I say why tempt her with something with less margin for error?

Besides, you can get the bulk standard pressure stuff for practices, and it shouldn't kick too much.


Papers, did you try a Ruger LC9? Tiny, 9mm, selectable safety, affordable, rugged.
 

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I'd suggest that any caliber preference comes into play ONLY AFTER shot placement lands a given projectile on a given spot on the target. If you shoot a person in the leg with a 9mm, and I shoot the same sized person in the eye, with a .22..... well, see my point?
Oh come now, Jay...don't you listen to all those people who say the .22lr is not a viable carry gun? Geesh, we all know how useless that small caliber is...<tongue in cheek>.

I teach ten well placed shots in 5 ceconds can't be all bad. (Shoot once...if the perp is stupid enough to get up...empty the magazine).

Oh, of course, but if you shoot someone in the dead center of the chest (perfect placement for the way most of us practice) the person shot with the 9mm will stop hostile action faster than the same shot placement with a .380, given the same quality of defensive ammo.

With ANY given shot placement, the attacker is likely to stop sooner with a higher energy round, given quality defensive ammo.

Shot placement is KING, caliber is queen, quality ammo is non-negotiable.

SO, to elaborate on your point, the round that she practices with the most is the best one, but if she already likes the 9mm, I say why tempt her with something with less margin for error?

Besides, you can get the bulk standard pressure stuff for practices, and it shouldn't kick too much.


Papers, did you try a Ruger LC9? Tiny, 9mm, selectable safety, affordable, rugged.
You're right Barry, there's some good new designs for smaller 9mm but the velocity causes possible 'through shots' if soft tissue is hit; the .380 most likely may not over-penetrate the perp thereby reducing or eliminating peripheral damage of hitting some poor schmuck who just happens to be in the area.

I load my own with 90 gr JHP which seem to give me a peace of mind. I do like the .45 acp better but ...
 

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Oh come now, Jay...don't you listen to all those people who say the .22lr is not a viable carry gun? Geesh, we all know how useless that small caliber is...<tongue in cheek>.
I teach ten well placed shots in 5 ceconds can't be all bad. (Shoot once...if the perp is stupid enough to get up...empty the magazine).
You're right Barry, there's some good new designs for smaller 9mm but the velocity causes possible 'through shots' if soft tissue is hit; the .380 most likely may not over-penetrate the perp thereby reducing or eliminating peripheral damage of hitting some poor schmuck who just happens to be in the area.
I load my own with 90 gr JHP which seem to give me a peace of mind. I do like the .45 acp better but ...

True, but the really nice 9mm don't penetrate too badly, given the same quality of ammo, it's only about 2-3 more, with better expansion, and they stop someone better than the .380. The .380 is much smaller, and the pistols can make for narrower grips, front to back, and the recoil is lighter, penetration is more lighter, etc. Still, more energy, gives you better chances of surviving.

It's sort of like the difference between a 6 pound and an 8 pound hammer. The smaller hammer will do, but if you can handle, the bigger hammer will make the work easier, and faster.

I mean to say that a .380 has it's virtues, but I'd recommend the 9mm. Really I recommend a .45, but the 9mm will do. :)
 

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......I teach ten well placed shots in 5 ceconds can't be all bad. (Shoot once...if the perp is stupid enough to get up...empty the magazine)........
And in all your years as a shooting instructor, how many of your students have you actually SEEN shoot 10 well placed shots in 5 seconds, while under duress?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but as a Shooting Instructor, I think we have a responsibility to teach our Concealed Carry students REALISTIC defensive hand gun skills that they will be able to actually put into action in a life threatening situation.

Studies of actual defensive shootings have shown that accuracy is usually pretty poor, and rarely are more than three shots fired.

My own experience as a CCW Instructor has shown that MOST licensed gun carriers spend very little time practicing their shooting skills, once they have achieved their initial proficiency that was required (if any IS required to be demonstrated in their state) for their CCW/CPL issuance.

Just about EVERYONE agrees that "shot placement is king," but VERY FEW (outside of us dedicated gun nuts and instructors) are willing to put in the time, expense, and discipline to achieve the skill that is required to back up that maxim.
 

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NRA teaches 5 shot groups at 15 ft in a 6 inch circle..... It's my view that anything on a letter-sized sheet of paper, is adequate for defensive accuracy. The steel targets I built a while ago measure 12 inches wide by 18 inches top-to-bottom.... they "fit" comfortably within the limits of my torso.

Officers then fired at the suspect, who was not hit. However, two bystanders were hit by the gunfire.
The Coming Crisis: Two bystanders wounded in SF police shooting who "missed" -- Aren't police trained anymore?

Studies of actual defensive shootings have shown that accuracy is usually pretty poor, and rarely are more than three shots fired.
That's true.... the stats say three's.... defensive shootings statistically occur in low light, last for three seconds, average of three shots fired, at a distance of three feet.. (NRA Personal Protection in the Home Text)
 

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Discussion Starter · #52 ·
I highly doubt that under duress the average person is gonna land 10 shots. There might not even be enough time for that. And I agree that most people who own a gun actually train with it. Personally, I cant wait to get my first....take it apart, put it back together, dry fire it.....wash, rince repeat!!!
 

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And in all your years as a shooting instructor, how many of your students have you actually SEEN shoot 10 well placed shots in 5 seconds, while under duress?

Everyone is entitled to their opinion, but as a Shooting Instructor, I think we have a responsibility to teach our Concealed Carry students REALISTIC defensive hand gun skills that they will be able to actually put into action in a life threatening situation.

Studies of actual defensive shootings have shown that accuracy is usually pretty poor, and rarely are more than three shots fired.

My own experience as a CCW Instructor has shown that MOST licensed gun carriers spend very little time practicing their shooting skills, once they have achieved their initial proficiency that was required (if any IS required to be demonstrated in their state) for their CCW/CPL issuance.

Just about EVERYONE agrees that "shot placement is king," but VERY FEW (outside of us dedicated gun nuts and instructors) are willing to put in the time, expense, and discipline to achieve the skill that is required to back up that maxim.
That comment was strictly a demonstration for .22lr shooting only due to practically nil recovery required from the previous shot; unlike the recovery time for larger calibers. I have seen several of my students hit a B27 with reasonable accuracy in a rapid fire practical application with a .22lr. In a real life scenerio most of the instruction for position, stance, aiming techniques, and the like, are out-the-window. I encourage continued practice from positions other than the basics.

I would venture to say most ccw would get one good clean shot while the rest of the magazine fodder would find it's way to everything but the target.

Pathetically, I have offered use of my range for practice shoots...I have yet to get a taker.

Take note, I'm not disputing what you've posted.
 

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I love how many true experts we got here to help someone out. Well done G&G.

You're my kinda guy Papers. I'm the same way. I just love taking them apart.
 

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I love how many true experts we got here to help someone out. Well done G&G.

You're my kinda guy Papers. I'm the same way. I just love taking them apart.
Yeah, so do I...it's gettin' back together that's the hard part...LOL
 

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Yeah, so do I...it's gettin' back together that's the hard part...LOL
The first time I take a new (to me) gun apart, I videotape the disassembly. Now, it's real likely that a video for taking your gun apart already exists on YouTube.
 

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The first time I take a new (to me) gun apart, I videotape the disassembly. Now, it's real likely that a video for taking your gun apart already exists on YouTube.
Probably, but I have Century Tel Hi-speed Internet and it takes a week or two to stream and play a YouTube anything. One of the paries for living in a country atmosphere...the really good ISP's are too cheap to come out here.

I suffer from diabetic neuropathy...I don't really suffer...but I do have it. This sometimes (read: most of the time) prevents me from grasping small parts from the bench to re-install. If I drop the small part on the floor it's all over...especially if I drop it on my countrified carpet...poor eyesight too...lol.

Dang, gettin old sucks...well, not really sucks...just more of a challenge.
 

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heh, I remember dial-up.... ugh...

I have one of those "drip trays" that can be placed under a water heater... it's a plastic tray about 36" square, and 2 inches deep.... between that and a plastic bag, I don't lose too many small parts any more...
 

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I actually thought that she would like the smaller guns, but it turns out that she has big hands and needs something a little bigger. We tried a .38 hammerless revolver but it had to much pop, and the regular sized one was just to big. She handled the 9mm's well, but wants to try a .380 (there is a dif between .380 and .38 right?)
I've trained many female shooters, starting with small calibers and working up. Surprisingly I find women like the 1911 best and usually I have to tear it from their paws while yelling, "It's Mine". In fact I've had a couple women who wanted my Auto-Mag III after shooting mine.

Women, contrary to a guy's thinking, are many times easily capable of handling larger caliber handguns.

The reason a man buys a wife, girlfriend, or both (not a smart move by-the-way) a handgun is...he will buy one HE wants so when SHE doesn't like it, HE has a new handgun...lol...That's not a bad thing but doesn't do much in getting her into shooting. BUT...when you let her pick out the one she likes best...it will be expensive. Like silver-plated stainless steel with diamond studded grips and gold plated hammer and trigger.

Happy shooting!
 
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