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Ok, so I know a lot of people have started talking about concealed carry laws. My campus recently did an even where a large portion of the student body wore empty holsters for a day to show their dissaproval for not allowing students to carry concealed on campuses. I for one fully support concealed carry on campus. I'm, obviously, a college student on a campus with close to 20,000 people. After hearing about the recent school shootings, I would feel much better if I were allowed to carry concealed on campus. Imagine how quickly the shooter at Virginia Tech could have been stopped if only one person in that classroom had a concealed weapon on them. My college newspaper has published close to a dozen articles from students across campus arguing for or against concealed carry on campus. I just wanted to know what all of you ladies thought. Do you think it's a good idea to let college students carry concealed on campus?
 

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FyreTyger: Ma'am; I aint no "Miss'ess" with 1000.02cents of agreement with; those that want to carry; SHOULD have the opportunity.

Another side to "CC". You should first and always get the hell out of the way.
None of us are immune to lead. Just because we CC; we are not POLICE. They took that job; they prepare for the risk. I don't want the OFFICERS hurt either.

Now if that makes any sense; YOU ME THEM can't get out of the way.
Find you the safest spot, have weapon at the ready; PULLING that TRIGGER on another HUMAN being will be one of the hardest thing you'll ever do.

Don't go LOOKING for the aggressor. Make them come to you. Called Advantage mine.
 

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There are threads already discussing this topic. I personally am on the fence about it for several reasons.

The pro side:

-could stop mass murders
-could prevent mass murders
-could protect anyone on campus from anything harmful (assaults, rapes, etc)



the con side:

-people are dumb
-there are gun accidents all the time every year
-when you have 10,000 students carrying guns, your chances of getting shot go way up

If there were an effective way to prove and certify someone's competence with a gun I would be all for it. However, given how there are things like the Darwin Awards, I can't see that there not being at least 1 accident every year from a law abiding student who accidentally shoots someone, for whatever circumstance. I don't think any University would want that liability. That is just law suit city.

I know that everyone will argue against me that only responsible people own and carry guns, and that is just not true. Google search gun accidents in the news and you will get thousands of hits, of people, who were competent enough to own and carry a gun and there was an accident. Then what happens if stuff does go down and you are walking to class, and you get shot as a bystander in a gun fight between a mass murderer and a student?

Like I said, I am on the fence, and can't really make a decision. I see the pros and I see the cons. I think that trained armed security on campus would be the best answer, that way students don't have to worry about anything like that. You can have a patrol and a few guards in each building. Heck, you are already paying 10s of thousands if not more for your education so I am sure they can afford it.

What school do you go to if you don't mind me asking?
 

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This link Death Statistics Tables will clear up a great misconception about accidental firearm discharge in this country. It irks the hell out of me everytime someone claims there so MANY deaths caused by AD/ND everyday because it simply is not true :angryfire:! Clearly automobiles, swimming pools and ladders are FAR more deadly on a daily basis, yet, there is no hysteria or mass movement to prevent a teenager from getting a drivers license, playing in a pool or climbing ladders.

Many college students are adults, nearly every single college student is elligible to go to war for this country. But so many want to prevent them from defending themselves .

301,000,000 million people in the U.S. according to 07 census
776 deaths by accidental discharge of firearms (2005)
that = 1 death for every 387,886 people by AD/ND of firearms

Falls 13,332 deaths = 1 death for every 22,577 people (2005)

Automobiles 43,354 deaths = 1 death for every 6942 people (2005)

I would much rather be on a campus full of students carrying CCW ,than going for a ride in a automobile with any of them ,on any given day !

Deaths per day:

Firearms AD/ND 2.12

Falls 36.52

Automobiles 118.77

Odds of being killed by in an auto accident are 56 times greater than by and AD/ND purely in terms of math. In the real world by virtue of exposure to those risks, common sense says that an automobile accident is a far, far more likely way to lose ones life than and AD/ND.
 

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Those odds don't account for 10,000 people carrying firearms in an isolated area. Sure I bet tons of accidents happen each year where no one gets hurt because it didn't happen around people, so it never got reported. You then factor in that a campus with 20,000 students at least 50% (guess) will be carrying, in a small what, 2 square mile radius? So you have 10,000 loaded guns in 2 square miles or less of campus surface.

It is a numbers game, and when you put that many loaded guns in a small area the odds get better of an accident actually hurting someone, and it wold only take one for the law suits to happen.

I am not against it, I am just saying that those statistics don't hold up because they don't account for high concentrated areas of people carrying firearms.
 

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Nice post AK Hunter.

Tlarkin, the law suits should come everytime anyone is killed or injured in a gun-free zone. The entity should be sued for limiting the customer's or students rights to protect themselves while not furnishing adequate protection for their personal safety.
 

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I actually highly doubt 50% of students would carry. I am all in favor of carrying on school campuses and wish SC would change their law accordingly. My average class size is between 50-80 people. Only 4-5 have actually shown interest in carrying on campus. There are already guns on campuses. Most of them are in the hands of non-licensed individuals. There have been multiple muggings on my campus at gun point. I say give us a chance at fighting back.
 

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Those odds don't account for 10,000 people carrying firearms in an isolated area. Sure I bet tons of accidents happen each year where no one gets hurt because it didn't happen around people, so it never got reported. You then factor in that a campus with 20,000 students at least 50% (guess) will be carrying, in a small what, 2 square mile radius? So you have 10,000 loaded guns in 2 square miles or less of campus surface.

It is a numbers game, and when you put that many loaded guns in a small area the odds get better of an accident actually hurting someone, and it wold only take one for the law suits to happen.

I am not against it, I am just saying that those statistics don't hold up because they don't account for high concentrated areas of people carrying firearms.
Your numbers game is quite generous I think. I can't possibly imagine that 50% of the student body would be carrying CCW. If that were to be true it would be logical to "guess" that 50% of all americans are carrying CCW, and if that were true, crime as we know it, I think, would come to a virtual screaching halt.

Every year there are numerous sporting/shooting competitions that involve high numbers of people actively handling, loading and discharging firearms at static and moving targets in a concentrated area. If your reasoning was true, there would be bystanders getting killed frequently.

As for lawsuits, so what ? Lawsuits happen everyday for a myriad of reasons from inane to heinous. If I worried about lawsuits all the time, I wouldn't have a house, a wife, a pet, a job, a truck, a boat etc. etc. I would have to live in a bubble and never speak for fear of saying something that wasn't "PC"and getting sued over it for being insensitive and causing emotional distress.
 

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Hey, I am not saying that it will happen I am just saying those numbers don't account for a concentration of guns in a higher education social environment, and your comparison to a shooting competition is a good one, but I would assume they have safety officials keeping everyone in line. At the rifle range I go to there is a park ranger that patrols the whole area and he stops the range probably once an hour (if not more) because someone is violating the safety rules. The range is put on hold until that person complies with the safety rules. How would you enforce something like that with a campus of 20,000 students and not knowing who is carrying what and where?

50% may be a bit generous you are right and it will be hard to predict how many, but going off all the press that this is getting I think it has a pretty strong following.

As for the lawsuits, it doesn't bother me, but it may bother the administration of the college, and that is what I was getting at.
 

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In my humble opinion, whenever an entity, be it a school, store, whatever, posts a sigh prohibiting CCW, that entity is taking personal responisibility for my safety. Since they are not allowing citizens the right protect themselves, they are responsible for their patrons' safety. I also agree with Windwalker. I would be surprised if 20% of the students on any given campus would be carrying. In our state, you have to be 23 to have a CCW permit anyway, and that would rule out the majority of students.
 

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Windwalker is layin' it down like it is. If the business/school is open to the public, and is not willing or capable of providing you with a safe environment in which to conduct business or get an education, and they won't let you protect yourself then it should be held liable and dealt with accordingly. Everyone else is responsible for his or her actions, in this society, the same should apply to a school, mall or whatever.
 

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This as with many issues, will have more supporters for an action than those who actualy participate once the allowance is made. I realize there are many stupid people in the world, sad as it is, but it really frustrates and angers me when so many of them are in the positions of legislating "we know better than you".

I am all for firearm safety training as a prerequisite to CCW on campus or anyplace. As a matter of fact I think it imperative but I am not jumping on the hysteria bandwagon where this issue is concerned. The difference in stats between firearms and automobiles is as staggering as the requirements to own and operate either one. One has to be of certain legal age, pass a written and operational test for a drivers license, before they can legaly own and operate a automobile. To own and operate a firearm, one only has to be of certain legal age for the vast majority of the U.S. yet only 0.8% of accidental deaths are caused by firearms while 44% are caused by automobiles.

Where has common sense gone ?

In addition to agreeing with Windwalkers' post there are many lawsuits filed against VT for the mass murders commmited there. Regardless of the policies there is always a plaintiff and a lawyer willing to take an entity to task for money.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Ok, so here's my thoughts. I attend Missouri State University in Springfield btw tlarkin.

In my state you have to be 23 to carry concealed. I would say that a overwhelming majority of students on my campus are under the age of 23. Myself included. So we're talking maybe *maybe* about 15% of the populous that are legal to carry concealed. So we're looking at at most about 3000 students, and that's including the students who take night classes, which is usually comprised of non-traditional students, meaning older students. So there's that piece.

Secondly, while gun accidents do occur, the info is there proving other things are far more dangerous. In my state you have to take a, I believe it's 16 hour, course to be eligible to even carry, and that's $220. Then it's another like $75 to get the permit from the sherrif. We're talking 300 bucks that most college kids *don't* have sitting around. I do believe that having to take that course decreases the amount of accidents exponentially.

Thirdly, most students who would be legal to carry would not live on the campus. Most of the people in the dorms are in the 18-21 range. So we wouldn't have to worry about guns in the dorms.

But I don't see why, as someone who lives off campus, is a responsible adult, why we, assuming I were of age of course, couldn't carry our firearm onto campus when we show up, and then leave with it. It doesn't make sense to me. I can see both sides of the argument, but in a place where we have to place our safety in the hands of retired policemen who only run when there's a sale on donuts, I'd rather be in charge of my own person.
 

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protect

FyreTyger: Ma'am; I don't know you from a rock; but I sure do like how you think.
Accidents will happen, crap happen, life goes on to all but the "victim"
Ma'am; I don't want anything to happen to you or anyone else. I would like to wake tomorrow with the Utopian World consuming me; I would like to wake tomorrow and all my prayers of peace be answered to ?my? satisfaction.

Ma'am; the reality; protect yourself; do what is ?legal? follow the law; with all the ?gray? areas looked at.

AKHunter has made some outstanding points as many others have.

I like the #bers games too.

Reality; Cops are too heavy to carry around.
 

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I hear that. There's nothing like a 300lbs fat man on your back... :) No offense to any who are police officers; it's just our security on campus is useless.

In regards to protecting myself, I'd rather meet iron with iron vs. iron with mace. 12 feet vs. 150 yards. I would feel better knowing that if some psycho with a gun entered my classroom and pulled out a Glock and started aiming it on people, I would have the capacity and ability to end it before it began. I'm not saying that shooting people is easy, nor is it something to get into the habit of doing, but when it's kill or be killed, I'd rather shoot first ask questions later.

In case it's not incredibly obvious, I am completely 100% for legalizing concealed carry on my campus.
 

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I am all for responsible people to conceal and carry. However, if I ever get shot as a bystander by one of those responsible people I am going to be pretty pissed about it. I have already seen a few gun fights in my part of town, and I am pretty sure that a few of them were attempted muggings. I don't like being near open gun fire, it just makes me feel uncomfortable.

Gun free zones are a joke, and I am all about self defense. I just don't ever want to have to be around thousands of idiots with guns. Yeah I have a cynical point of view with people, but I have lived a life where I have met a lot of irresponsible people that back my perception. Some of those people I have met or know, own guns and probably shouldn't be allowed to. I am just waiting till they shoot them self or someone else on accident and make Fark.com.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I also live in an area where there are people who have guns who shouldn't. I've seen a drug fight dissolved into people shooting shotguns at each other. I know what you mean. But you have to admit that, at least in my case, the people who were responsible for these acts were not intelligent people. They were high school drop outs, had no career path, no real future. College students are a whole other subject. They tend to be more intelligent, responsible, and generally more careful. I'm not saying that 100% of college kids are that way, I'm just saying a large portion of them are.

I too would be pissed to get shot as a bystander, but depending on the situation, I could forgive someone. It's all relative.
 

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I think it perfectly acceptable to carry in college campus......so long as it is done responsibly and legally. I think its critical to contiuously practice with your carry weapon. Of course there are pro and cons to this...as in all things. Risks are greater of innocents being in the line of fire or guns going in the wrong hands, etc...but then again, a would-be shooter would be wise to re-think going in with guns blazing, not knowing who is carrying. That would be irrelevant, of course if they were suicidal, anyways.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I think knowing that the campus allowed carrying concealed could actually prove to be a deterrant. Several years ago I lived out in Denver where it was legal for anyone to carry. (The laws may have changed since then, but this is how it was 15 years ago) Anyone could carry, but it *had* to be loaded. Do you know how incredibly low the violent crime rate was? To know that if you pulled a gun and threatened someone, the guy next to you could shoot you deterred a *lot* of people from commiting violent crimes. I think the same would happen on college campuses. I do agree that if they're suicidal, then it's irrelevant, but to those that still have an inkling of hope to live, it might keep them from doing it.
 

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To start out I think maybe they should just let the teachers/professors carry. See how that works out first before arming the entire student body.
 
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