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Daughter owns a .22 rifle. Fiancé owns his grandfather's gun collection and IS a registered weapon.
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There are a lot of standpoints on this gene sequence editing device, from pragmatic views such as, it's currently not proven safe and is being rushed; to political views such as it's really about control and not health; to spiritual views and it's role either directly tied to or leads up to, being marked and even as far as being separated from God. All these various viewpoints have one thing in common, weariness of this vaccine.

I believe that eventually no one will not be able to buy or sell without proof of being vaccinated, via a chip that interacts with one's modified genes and is continuously sending and receiving data, via 5G (and you will be monitored, for sure).
 

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Welcome to G&G. I Don't believe that at all. This is a Corona virus, and while a new strain, the family is not unknown to the science community. Rhinovirus and Corona viruses cause the common cold, nothing special, but then you have other strains of Corona viruses that have caused problems such as MERS, SARS-1 and our current virus. Vaccines for these viruses were never needed before for two reasons, first, the virus (when contracted) gave you the cold and was nothing more than an inconvenience. Second, the more more harmful strains of the virus were primary isolated to other countries and had very little spread world wide - - no massive spread, no panic, no need for a vaccine, no problem.

Now fast forward to COVID19 (SARS-CoV-2) virus, greater reproductive rate, thus higher chance of spread. Symptoms and effects are similar to MERS, SARS - 1 and Flu virus, just a quicker spread.

A large amount of people get the flu world wide each year and many people die from complications caused by flu, enough that a vaccine makes sense. Often, people will get a cold and think/call it flu when it is not. Flu can bring on complications that can kill you. I can attest to this because 2006 was the year I did not get my flu vaccination because of my work schedule and I caught influenza. It wasn't until early 2008 that I was considered fully recovered from the two bouts of pneumonia it brought on two years prior. I am about as fit as they come and the flu caused complications severe enough to almost kill me and steal almost two full years of my life because I couldn't walk up three steps on a staircase without needing a break to breathe.

Virus's that cause illness like flu are no joke. Some people have complications others don't, but the death rate is enough to warrant vaccination. That said, the vaccination for influenza is reworked every year in a short period of time (similar to the COVID-19). The efficacy of the vaccine is more effective some years than not. Doesn't surprise me at all the COVID vaccine was developed in a short period of time given the world wide involvement of the science community (as a whole), prior knowledge of this family of virus and funding thrown at developing a vaccine like never before seen.

Are vaccines dangerous? For some yes, for others no. Your doctor is the best person to speak with in making this determination. For those unable/unwilling to be vaccinated, they may still benefit from the vaccine through herd immunity. This is why children in schools get vaccinated - - because it is known that all kids may not be able to have the vaccine and the unvaccinated childs health is maintained by others around him/her being free from the disease.

Marking for buying and selling? I believe this is nothing more than a scare tactic that has been used over and over again for as long as I can remember growing up - - for every vaccine or advance of technology. Same message, different time.
 

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Daughter owns a .22 rifle. Fiancé owns his grandfather's gun collection and IS a registered weapon.
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Discussion Starter #3
Thanks for your welcome! Thanks also for providing a well written viewpoint on the vaccine. I think that what I was getting at is that the vaccine may not be optional if you want to live a normal life.

I believe that not only would buying and selling be made impossible, but also traveling via air. Maybe there will also even be checkpoints setup along state lines where you must show proof of your vaccination to pass. No one knows how the government will leverage technology to ensure compliance, but I think it's coming.

Do you think people should be forced to get the vaccine, or suffer consequences like not being able to buy or sell, or travel?

If you do not think it would be ethically or morally correct to force the vaccine on people like that, then regardless of how you may feel about the worthiness or importance of the vaccine, we would actually be in agreement.

That is really what I am getting at with this particular post, despite that as my profile suggests, what is important to me is to not get the vaccine. Eager to hear your thoughts, and thanks again!
 

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I appreciate your response. A vaccine is a personal choice. There will always be people who are either opposed to vaccinations (of any type) because of belief (and that is fine) , and those who are unable to be vaccinated due to a medical condition - - where a vaccine would do more harm than good.

I personally believe the notion of not being able to buy and sell is nothing but unsubstantiated fear. As I said, this same notion has been talked about for years for other vaccines, and a host of technologies...we are still here and none of us have been hauled through a line for mandatory inoculations...except for maybe our Vets lol.

There have always been travel restrictions in place (long before COVID) established by some countries that prevent you from either traveling or conducting certain activities in their country unless you can show vaccination records... such as MMR and Yellow Fever. For other countries the vaccines are recommended. Will COVID vaccine be required for travel, who knows (no pun intended).

The fact of the matter is vaccines save lives. By having a strong Polio & MMR vaccination regimen in the US, those diseases where essentially eliminated and we all benefited for decades. Very few people these days remember what Polio could do to a person. Now with air travel being routine and many people not getting vaccinated, we are starting to see some of these diseases return.

All that said, vaccines will remain a personal choice. There always has been and will be continued restrictions with children attending schools and/or traveling to certain countries. But being unable to buy and sell here in the US and/or being otherwise marked and isolated because of that choice is unreasonable thought.

Wish there was a vaccine to eradicate communism and socialism from the world... Now there is a vaccine I would be totally be for forcing upon people lol!
 

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I have been led to believe this vaccine works differently than anything used in the past. Instead of using a small sample of the virus structure to cause immunity, it does indeed alter our immune system in some manner which in turn, provides supposed immunity to the virus. If it does indeed make genetic changes to the human body I would have to personally decline the vaccine.
 

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I have been led to believe this vaccine works differently than anything used in the past. Instead of using a small sample of the virus structure to cause immunity, it does indeed alter our immune system in some manner which in turn, provides supposed immunity to the virus. If it does indeed make genetic changes to the human body I would have to personally decline the vaccine.
Ya....I think it's a personal decision. It is the first RNA modifier of its kinda which isn't so much the body but genetic coding to the immune system (which I guess IS the body lol).

It's a toss up; Penicillin existed a decade or so before people used it and obviously could've helped people (and people are allergic to penicillin as well). So it could be one of those boon things.

Or could be a thalidomide type of thing with the genetic mods to the immune system not fully understood having adverse effects. Or unknown downline effects. It IS different than any other type of vaccine used to date (boom or bust; who knows, there IS a huge void of trust which is completely justified).

So the best strategy is to consult with a real doctor that you trust and understands you and weigh the pros and cons. Someone who has access to all the information for a personal risk assessment and away from all the propaganda and bumper stickers. Maybe a couple but this is of a magnitude requiring REAL expertise from a trusted doctor that you really know well.

Where you KNOW it's gone bad is in coercion. When you have to be coerced to get it.

The concern OVER having the vaccine for air travel or international travel IS real; this is being floated domestically and overseas (vaccine passport and the like; I'm a little closer to this than I wanna be and if and when air travel opens up again there's a good chance I'll have to make a choice between vaccine and job later in the year). And we've seen what coercion has done with TDS and real corporations, media sources, and banks. Depending on agenda, it COULD bleed over to public places and commerce. Look at how TDS has bled over to commerce so I'm not thinking that's too much of a stretch. I'd scoff at restrictions in interstate commerce requiring THIS vaccine (and it violates interstate commerce provisions) so it's not legal; that doesn't mean some governor won't attempt it.
 

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I have been led to believe this vaccine works differently than anything used in the past. Instead of using a small sample of the virus structure to cause immunity, it does indeed alter our immune system in some manner which in turn, provides supposed immunity to the virus. If it does indeed make genetic changes to the human body I would have to personally decline the vaccine.
You have been led to believe incorrectly. mRNA vaccines (which the SARS CoV-2 vaccine is) does not alter DNA, this is false information that has been spreading like wild fire by the anti vax crowd. ..again, it is false. mRNA is made naturally by the body and is responsible for giving the signals / instruction for protein generation. The vaccine does a similar thing and basically tells muscle cells how to react to trigger an immune response to an invader...in this case the virus that causes COVID-19. The vaccine never enters the cell nucleus...where DNA resides.

Yes, there have been therapies developed that do alter DNA for the purpose of recoding defective DNA...but this has been for diseases and conditions other than COVID...in fact some treatment for genetic blindness have been treated by altering DNA. There are also diseases out there that hijack your cells and mutate DNA, HIV and Human Papiloma Virus are two well known culprits for this.

I find it interesting that people tend to get wrapped up about a vaccine or treatment that supposedly alters DNA, but will turn a blind to viruses that will alter DNA in a bad way, usually leading to cancers. Anyway, be rest assured, the covid vax won't be altering your DNA.
 

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You have been led to believe incorrectly. mRNA vaccines (which the SARS CoV-2 vaccine is) does not alter DNA, this is false information that has been spreading like wild fire by the anti vax crowd. ..again, it is false. mRNA is made naturally by the body and is responsible for giving the signals / instruction for protein generation. The vaccine does a similar thing and basically tells muscle cells how to react to trigger an immune response to an invader...in this case the virus that causes COVID-19. The vaccine never enters the cell nucleus...where DNA resides.

Yes, there have been therapies developed that do alter DNA for the purpose of recoding defective DNA...but this has been for diseases and conditions other than COVID...in fact some treatment for genetic blindness have been treated by altering DNA. There are also diseases out there that hijack your cells and mutate DNA, HIV and Human Papiloma Virus are two well known culprits for this.

I find it interesting that people tend to get wrapped up about a vaccine or treatment that supposedly alters DNA, but will turn a blind to viruses that will alter DNA in a bad way, usually leading to cancers. Anyway, be rest assured, the covid vax won't be altering your DNA.
It's not a DNA-type of affecting device but unless I'm mistaken does alter the immune system through mRNA stimulation and coding--basically as you said 'programming' these cells how to react to a certain type of invader. So (at least as far as I understand it--in a crude way) rather than having a weak or dead form of the virus injected directly (where the immune system learns for itself how to deal with the pathogen in question) this kinda-directly 'programs' the immunoresponse. At least that's the way I understood it. And it is the first of its type to be used in widespread use for humans.


(I would look on it differently if it was likely I was going to be exposed to ebola or had cancer (or perhaps was elderly and/or had significant risk factors) ; this is the flu--which is dangerous to a small fraction of the population but highly survivable to 99+percent).
 

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It's not a DNA-type of affecting device but unless I'm mistaken does alter the immune system through mRNA stimulation and coding--basically as you said 'programming' these cells how to react to a certain type of invader. So (at least as far as I understand it--in a crude way) rather than having a weak or dead form of the virus injected directly (where the immune system learns for itself how to deal with the pathogen in question) this kinda-directly 'programs' the immunoresponse. At least that's the way I understood it. And it is the first of its type to be used in widespread use in humans.


(I would look on it differently if it was likely I was going to be exposed to ebola or had cancer; this is the flu--which is dangerous to a small fraction of the population but highly survivable to 99+percent).
Yes...you are certainly on the right track. The vaccine essentially says to your cells, hey, here is a blueprint to make some virus S proteins (spikes)...but the blueprint is incomplete (for lack of better term) - - but enough to cause the body to recognize the fragmented s proteins and make antibodies effective against the virus. Clear? As mud? Lol😎
 

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It's not a DNA-type of affecting device but unless I'm mistaken does alter the immune system through mRNA stimulation and coding--basically as you said 'programming' these cells how to react to a certain type of invader. So (at least as far as I understand it--in a crude way) rather than having a weak or dead form of the virus injected directly (where the immune system learns for itself how to deal with the pathogen in question) this kinda-directly 'programs' the immunoresponse. At least that's the way I understood it. And it is the first of its type to be used in widespread use for humans.


(I would look on it differently if it was likely I was going to be exposed to ebola or had cancer (or perhaps was elderly and/or had significant risk factors) ; this is the flu--which is dangerous to a small fraction of the population but highly survivable to 99+percent).
Oh, and I agree, highly survivable for most. My personal take is the vaccine is prudent for those who need it...just like a flu Vax. As I said before, Flu complications almost killed me and made my life Hell for almost two years. Having had severe respiratory issues from that event, I am at high risk, so I will take the vaccine when it is made availible to me.
 

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My wife an I were talking, we have been on the planet over 140 years. We have never met or known a person that die of the flu. Both of us have had the flu a few times and both got over it. We can name 4 guys younger than me that died since August all in good health. So, it is not like the flu in our area. There were only 85 people who died of the flu last year. The covid has killed 2,848 in 10 months.
Here are the daily stats as of today.

Oklahoma cases
Updated Jan 13 at 11:22 PM local
Confirmed
341,364
+3,907 new cases today
Deaths to date 2,848
+44 new deaths yesterday

Percent of people testing positive compared to people who died is 0.0083 or about 8/10ths of 1 percent.

Nearly 80% are over 65 and 16% are in the 50-64 age range, the other 4% are under age 50, that is the mix. So, the risk starts about age 50 and anyone under that is very low and probably would only take the shot to protect others. Not much reason for a person under 50 to take the vaccination except to prevent from giving it to others.

Coronavirus (oklahoma.gov)
 
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