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Dang lotto Gotta rethink this one!

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by SPOCAHP ANAR, Apr 10, 2002.

  1. SPOCAHP ANAR

    SPOCAHP ANAR G&G Enthusiast

    Most of you don't know that I am anti tax. I can't stand for a government to raise /implement a tax to pay for something unless there is a natural disaster or other public health concern that justifies it. Now recently I supported a tax raise localy for hotels it was 3% and they raised it to 6%. Still at six percent it is lower than most cities I've been to.

    The lottery is a TAX; a voluntary tax; but a tax nonetheless. Now why do I oppose a voluntary tax. Because you take a government give them money and lo and behold in a year or two years or three etc... its not enough so then they need to raise taxes again. Govenrments need to learn to be responsible with their money.

    Now my thinking has hit a dead end. Look at the people who use the lottery. All people of any race and economic standing play the lottery. But look at the percentages. Its a tax on the poor. The people who by and large spend their income on lottery tickets 45/50/100$ at at time are the ones who pay least amount of taxes. So it takes more of those who pay little or no income tax and allows them to pay some.

    Now I still have a hard tim ewith the lotto but I guess I will have to accept it as a just means of income.
     
  2. azeeb

    azeeb G&G Newbie

    I've got a pretty simple solution for you.... don't buy any lotto tickets. That way you don't have to pay any of the "tax". If someone else wants to play lotto that's not really any of your bussiness, is it? Sorry if i'm coming off as a little rude, but when other people think they know what's best for me and my money...
     

  3. Doglips

    Doglips G&G Newbie

    Hay I only missed by 5 # (out of six) from calling my boss and playing that song "Take this job and S-it"....man so close and yet so far away....better chance of getting hit by a flying bassetthound...but hay it could happen. :)
     
  4. SPOCAHP ANAR

    SPOCAHP ANAR G&G Enthusiast

    I don't Care

    I don't care if you blow your whole paycheck and you starve. I oppose the lottery for other reasons I thought I made clear above.

    Its easy money for the government and its a monopoly on gambling which is wrong in and of itself; but that's another economic argument.
     
  5. azeeb

    azeeb G&G Newbie

    I guess it probably depends on what state you live in. I've probably bought 2 lotto tickets in my life. I just think if people want to spend there money on it that's their problem not mine. I also live in michigan, and there are several dozen casinos across the state, so lotto definately isn't a monoply. Also the state only gets the winnings that nobody collects, and that money goes to benifit public schools and nothing else. At least the politicians can't take it and give themselves a pay raise. I don't know how it works in other states.
     
  6. SPOCAHP ANAR

    SPOCAHP ANAR G&G Enthusiast

    Its for the schools

    God Im so sick of hearing that. All they want to do is to take the lotto money and spend it on the schools and then they will take the money they WERE spending on education and spend it elsewhere. Just like in SC one guy (politicion?) was saying we need to cut property taxes to which the other guy(probably a democrat) replied OH NO we need that money for education. The 1st guy asked him what the education lottery was for then? UHUMUHDUGAGEE was all the other guy could say.

    You see its all about the money. It has nothing to do with education or the poor or retirees etc...
     
  7. MangesMade

    MangesMade G&G Newbie

    The Lott money goes to Education...not just public schools...Prisions also have and education program, and gets they're cut.
     
  8. Oxford

    Oxford G&G Evangelist

    Where did my post go?

    Jesse: I posted a reply yesterday evening on this thread which I had submitted. It was accepted, and showed up along with the other responses.

    Now it's missing. In fact, a reply on another thread relating to taxes disappeared, too.

    The reason I'm so upset about this missing thread is because I spent quite a while thinking out the statement, posted it, re-checked to see if it got posted and everything was posted like it normally does. Then today, I'm missing two posts.

    Did anyone else miss their post's? I even checked out some other threads and came back to the reply which I had posted two or three times. I'm certain that it got through the circuitry and didn't get cut off because of taking too long to post.

    This has left me very frustrated.

    Oxford:assult: :fuss:
     
  9. I too lost a post. The board seemed to be having problems yesterday (last night around 9:00 pm) when I logged on. It was acting like I was not logged on. none of my personal info was displayed nor were any avitars displayed. Oh well.
     
  10. azeeb

    azeeb G&G Newbie

    Phacopsrana,

    I'm having a lot of trouble following the logic of your arguement. First of all I agree with you 100% that the government wastes outrageous amounts of our money. However, your solution to this in the context of lottery money is to ban the lottery. The government also makes a large amount of money off from the sale liquor and tobacco products, should we ban these too? That was done once and it didn't go over real big. Consider another situation, the government makes a lot of money off of firearm registration. Do you propose a ban on firearms to solve this problem? I don't think so. Something needs to be done about the amount of waste that goes on in the government. I do not know what the solution is. However, I do know that placing limits on what people can spend their money on will not stop politicians from wasting money.
     
  11. Jesse

    Jesse G&G Newbie Forum Contributor

    2,036
    3
    Sorry guys about the lost posts. We upgraded to V-Bulletin 2.5 yesterday and while Chris was uploading the db, some problems arose and if you were posting during the upload, your post was erased. I apologize for the inconvinience but the security settings had to be upgraded and yesterday was a low traffic day for the board. We are now on a new server with all V-Bulletin upgrades. I have told Chris to leave everything as it is for a while...no more changes. The good thing about the new server we're on is that we can buy more space without moving. The new version of V- Bulletin will run a lot smoother and has a lot of new options.


    Jesse
     
  12. Oxford

    Oxford G&G Evangelist

    Thanks Jesse for the explanation on the lost posts.

    That explanation is totally believable and I appreciate you clearing up the questions? I was beginning to wonder if I was going nuts or something.

    Too bad about the lost posts, though, because I had a lot to say on the subject. Maybe tomorrow I'll try to re-write most of it.

    Oxford:nod:
     
  13. SPOCAHP ANAR

    SPOCAHP ANAR G&G Enthusiast

    Don't ban anything

    I do not oppose a ban on the lottery. First the lottery when run by the government is a monopoly; why not let private companies run it and tax the proceeds?. Second as I have stated above I am opposed to the government acquiring large sums of money too quick. I do not oppose taxes as they are necessary for government. I do oppose the governments solution of quick fix money such as lottery or raising taxes.

    I have come to realize that those who pay little or no taxes and those on welfare will play the lottery more and thus return some of our tax money back the the general fund. Then it will be squandered for more poor spending practices.

    As far as cigarettes and guns go we need to look at the taxes on them. Cigarettes are taxed way to high a percentage when compared to other taxable items. Gun taxes are in line with more reasonable practices. As far as liqour sales go the state has a monopoly here on it; government should not be in the business of limiting someone from going into the business that they want to.

    Ya know SC had a loophle in the law that allowed people to use those video gambling machines to make a profit. I'm sure you all saw the specials on dateline: Woman leaves kid in car six hours while at machines; man blows whole paycheck and family goes hungry.... Well it wasn't long the government was looking for a way to ban them. People went out and built big casinos near the borders; 2-3000 sf - hundreds of machines in a room. How much do you think these machines were? I have heard 50K but doubt its that high maybe more like 5k? Well the SC legislation passed a law banning the use of them. They legislated people out of business!!!!! Then guess what the next year the state puts the lottery up for a vote to the people and it passes.

    What did we just learn. Johnny has a business makes big bucks doing it. The state comes along says no to Johnny and begins doing the same thing!

    And people wonder why I oppose such things!
     
  14. Hmmm... As I remember the lottery has to pass by vote before a state can have one, if the people want it then it's in, if not no. Typically some states my feel some pressure when they see their residents giving money to an adjacent state that does have a lottery when they don't. Most states see the lottery as win win because it allows them to generate money needed for state funding without raising taxes, gives the average person a chance to get something in return, and, it is voluntary. If you want to play you can, if you don't like it don't buy a ticket.

    A portion of the money for the lottery is specifically for most states education, what the precentage is I don't know. Figure that if this money was not generated this way you would either pay higher taxes or programs which somebody deems not important music, etc) would get cut because there is not enough money to fund it.

    As far as taxes on liquor and private casinos, part of the reason the government is involved in these in the first place is because of all of the illegal activities that took place before these were regulated.
     
  15. azeeb

    azeeb G&G Newbie

    Alright I see what you are saying. People on Welfare use our tax money to buy lotto tickets. Government puts a ban on casinos, then starts selling lotto tickets. I agree those are pretty valid points. To be honest I don't know why I even got envolved with this post. I don't even play lotto.

    I definately have to agree with you on the welfare thing. Casino's have been legal on michigan on Indian Reservations for a long time. Now the state passed legislation to legalize casinos in other parts of the state. Three have already been built, and where are they at?........ downtown inner city detroit. These aren't a couple of thousand sq. ft. either. The smallest is over 100,000 sq. ft. Everyday I see busloads of people who look like they could be on welfare going to the casino, and I just shake my head.

    However, on the other hand, big commercial developers have been pooring million and millions of dollars into cleaning up downtown detroit to make it more presentable in the hopes of attracting more people to the casinos. This was the logic presented by the politicians when they passed the legislation, and I do have to say that it has worked to some extent. The downtown area used to be deserted, now there are tons of new upscale restaurants and hotels.

    Back to the welfare subject, I think it is a joke. Govenor Engler here in michigan has cracked down on it quite a bit over the last ten years. Still I just don't understand how a person can say they can't find a job for months at a time. I could make a couple of phone calls and have a new job by the end of the day if I wanted. They need to scrap the whole program and let the people on it starve to death before they get a chance to breed and reproduce.
     
  16. Thomas-Robert

    Thomas-Robert G&G Newbie

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    0
    OK but what if I don't believe in Gummamint schools, can I still play the LOTTO ? or somthing.
     
  17. azeeb

    azeeb G&G Newbie

    Another thing, the reason the government has to keep spending more money on schools is because everytime they try to give the schools money, the dang teachers unions go on strike. None of the money ever goes to actually buy anything for schools, the teachers just demand it as a pay increase, and nothing gets accomplished.
     
  18. PAPA G

    PAPA G G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    i used to play the lottery's mainly when those mega-$ jack pots are running, and only a few spare dollars. back in the 60's the state of NJ introduced a sales tax for schools, along with the regular property taxes for schools, it wasn't enough, they raised school taxes and increased the sales tax; then they added the lottery to help schools, along with raising taxes; added more lottery games, and raised taxes again for the schools; not enough the state allowed casinos in atlantic city, for more money for the schools. now the school system gets money from casinos, lottery, sales tax and property tax!!!!!!! another fraud is us savings bonds and t-bonds. you pay for the bond and wait years to redeem them, and how are they repaid by TAX's raised by the government its one big fraud!!!:mad: :assult:
     
  19. SPOCAHP ANAR

    SPOCAHP ANAR G&G Enthusiast

    Illegal activities = gov control

    Someone posted earlier that the reason the government is involved in Alcohol is because of the illegal activities that went on. The point I was trying to make was the sale of LIQUOR is a government monolpoly. There are illegal shenanigans going on in all types of business; should the government ban all business and run it themselves? Of course not.

    The government willonly pass legislation for 2 reasons.
    1 MONEY
    2 Votes which equals power and thus money
     
  20. Oxford

    Oxford G&G Evangelist

    The myth is that schools get all that tax money from the lottery. This is false!

    Here's basically a re-write of what I wrote a couple of days ago that got deleted by the administrators during their installation of some hardware/software programs.

    ------------------

    A lot of people don't realize exactly how taxes on lotteries affect schools. The common myth is that "schools get all that lottery money so why do they keep wanting more." Now that really is just a complete myth.

    Here's how it works in Missouri but I won't speak for how taxes on lottery ticket sales are dispersed in any other states because someone from those states will have to speak up who knows their correct information firsthand.

    All lottery tax funds collected are first deposited in the "General Fund" of the Missouri state treasury. Then the state legislature has complete control of where it goes. They can spend it for any purpose they vote on from A to Z.

    The state "foundation plan" dispenses funds back to schools based on a formula that the state legislature has passed. One factor is average daily attendance. Another factor is the amount of school taxes paid by patrons in a particular school district. There are lots of other factors in this formula for funding schools besides these two examples. But the bottom line is nothing can go directly to the school from the lottery.

    Now here's the kicker as far as education goes. The state "Foundation Plan for Funding Schools in Missouri" requires that any new funds, for example from lottery taxes, will cause a reduction of an equal amount being reduced from the Foundation Plan. In other words there is a net zero gain to a school district because of lottery taxes.

    If anything, this myth hurts education funding because too many people believe this myth and rightfully oppose taxes when they think a school is getting windfall cash income from the lottery.

    The fact of the matter is that Missouri public education would be better off financially if there were no casinos because of this general lack of knowledge of how lottery taxes are spent. It results in people voting no on education funding because of the myth on where lottery taxes are spent.

    Oxford:assult: :fuss: