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I am glad to see the Traditions rifle in the link you posted mouser. I have two older 45 caliber percussion muzzleloaders made by Traditions and my son has one still also. All manufacturers phased out their 45 caliber lines years ago. My son and I have always wondered why because the 45 was a flat shooting black powder rifle with sabots, round ball or the powerbelts were best. I have taken so many deer with mine. My sons is old and beat up and he has been wanting another 45 but could not find one about a year ago. I like the 45 over the 50 cal.
 

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kind of.
CZ dropped the 550.

that Bergara actually makes sense if you know anything about gun fitment.
i need a 14-3/8" LOP and 1-1/2" drop at the comb, if i can get a few degrees of negative pitch on the stock that's just about perfect.
all that does is make the gun more accurate for me, lower the recoil and allow the stock to come up against my shoulder with the scope in alignment with my right eye.
it allows me to do that with my head in a natural upright position, while i maintain my focus on the target.

other than that it's totally useless.
 

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If I needed a new deer gun, I don't, and I had the money, it would be the new Weatherby Mark V Back Country Titanium mountain gun. In 257 Weatherby, it only weighs 5.9 pounds, and that is with the 26 inch barrel. Looks like this: You cannot tell much by looking. I have a Mark V Deluxe in 300 Wby and know the quality. But this one is the cream of the crop for carry. In some calibers they only weigh 5.5 pounds.

Air gun Trigger Shotgun Gun barrel Wood

Unfortunately it is $3,449.00. My $500 Vanguard in 257 has killed about a dozen deer now, guess it will have to do. Or just use one of my other Winchester, Remington or Rugers, they have killed about 100 deer so they work just fine. Everybody has a favorite deer gun, whatever works.

That Browning semi auto is a nice gun, knew several elk hunters that used them in 300 Win Mag and they were 100% and shot like a bolt gun. For hunting the dark timber where shots are quick or not at all, those would be great, but at a price, of course.

New stuff every year. Nice to look at.
 

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i wonder if it has a titanium barrel?
they are accurate but the barrel life is super short.
I think they agree with you. Here is what the NRA said about titanium barrels last month.

Titanium
Titanium-cobalt alloys offer the strength of steel at approximately half the weight. However, titanium is very expensive and difficult to machine. In addition, titanium barrels and cylinders require a steel liner. Popular applications include barrels, cylinders on some models of S&W and Taurus revolvers, as well as some models of bolt-action rifles, notably recent models from Remington.

Looks like they just use steel barrels as a liner for the one with the carbon fibre barrel or just a regular steel barrels. The Weatherby website says they saved 42% on weight by using the titanium in the reciever.

"The Weatherby Backcountry 2.0 comes in four different versions. The heart of the rifle, Weatherby’s legendary Mark V action, is available in a steel version, or a lightweight titanium model. Similarly, Weatherby is offering the choice carbon steel barrels (in #1 or #2 MOD contours) or a #4 stainless steel barrel jacketed by tensioned carbon-fiber from BSF Barrels. All exposed metal has been Cerakoted (except the titanium action, which is left raw for effect), and the rifles are set off by a fluted bolt and skeletonized bolt knob. The trigger is a single-stage TriggerTech model, with a crisp engagement that’s user-adjustable. "

Still, any rifle under 6 pounds is a pretty nice idea. If you have the money.
 
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titanium receiver and a carbon wrapped barrel would sure be light.

Christensen arms has been doing the carbon wrapped barrels for bout 30 years now and i ain't looked in a while, but i'd imagine their prices are some close.
it'd be kinda nice to pick something like that up at your LGS on a Saturday, versus a 6-8 week wait.

just a note.
i could find a hunt in africa for the price of that rifle,,, jus sayin.
 

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titanium receiver and a carbon wrapped barrel would sure be light.

Christensen arms has been doing the carbon wrapped barrels for bout 30 years now and i ain't looked in a while, but i'd imagine their prices are some close.
it'd be kinda nice to pick something like that up at your LGS on a Saturday, versus a 6-8 week wait.

just a note.
i could find a hunt in africa for the price of that rifle,,, jus sayin.
I like to think I am a forward thinking guy, but the idea of shooting a gun with 60,000 psi of energy with a thin barrel liner and that liner wrapped in carbon tape just does not seem safe to me. Sure it is, as long as it does not get too hot. I guess all plastics are like that, just an epoxy like JB Weld. I think I will just carry that extra 2 pounds of rifle around.

Practically speaking, nobody but sheep and goat hunters carry a rifle very far anymore. I became disabled a few years ago and most days I cannot go very far from the truck. The rifle I hunt most with now is a 257 Wby Vanguard with plastic stock and 4 x 16 x 50 Burris. The gun weighs 7.5 pounds and scope and Redfield rings and mounts about 1.5, so with sling I am at 10 pounds. That Titanium only takes off 1.6 pounds, or about 25 ounces. I carry that much in water in my back pack, so that probably is not worth the extra $2, 500 you pay for it.

Most of my life I called myself and infantry style deer hunter. I figured out where they might be and would move out before daylight and would kill deer in their beds sometime during the day. The problem with that is it can be a day long chore to pack out a big mule deer. Killed lots of big deer that way. The first 85-90 white tail, mule deer, antelope and elk I killed, I never once set in a tree or tree stand, and never hunted over feeders or anything like that, I hunted wild deer on wild turf. I still have never killed one on a feeder, that is not hunting, just shooting an animal trained to come to a feed source. I have seen them even come running from a quarter mile away when the hear that feeder go off.

But we put them out to keep deer on our place, the ranch next door has them along with 3 nice big commercial deer stands on stilts. So we now put out feeders and built tree platforms too. Not really any hunting to it because sooner or later the does and fawns come to the feeder and the bucks will show up sooner or later also. For that kind of killing deer, you could use a 20 pound rifle and it would not matter much.

So, no I will not be buying one of those 6 pound rifles. And really if you hunt from a stand or near a feeder, any gun will do because most of them will be within 100-150 yards, so no precision is needed. I guess if we are going to hunt with stands and feeders we should go back to 30-30s or maybe pistols so there is some sport in it;

The older I get the more I enjoy steel and wood on a gun.
 

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I'd love to have a rifle that light.
i still hunt public land in Idaho and i still carry a back pack in as far as i can go.
the problem is pushing 60 and having leg issues slows all that down, but that's where the deer are [except the ones on the hay fields i can't hunt] so weight becomes more and more of an issue every year.

it sucks because the better i get at finding and shooting deer at 8-9000 feet,, the harder it is to do it.
 

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I'd love to have a rifle that light.
i still hunt public land in Idaho and i still carry a back pack in as far as i can go.
the problem is pushing 60 and having leg issues slows all that down, but that's where the deer are [except the ones on the hay fields i can't hunt] so weight becomes more and more of an issue every year.

it sucks because the better i get at finding and shooting deer at 8-9000 feet,, the harder it is to do it.
Yep, getting old sucks. I hurt pretty much all day long every day but lots of old guys do. Still hunting is my life.

As to the light rifles,Howa now makes one that is 4 pounds 10 ounces to 6 pounds 4 ounces. Howa is the same as the Weatherby Vanguard. I have a Howa, a Vanguard and a Mark V Deluxe from the custom shop. The 2 cheap ones shoot just as good as the expensive one. The Howa I think was the exact action as the Smith and Wesson Model 1500.Here is a picture of one in the NRA museum. Looks exactly like my Howa, Vanguard and Mark V. The Mark V of course has the different action.

Air gun Trigger Wood Shotgun Gun barrel


Now they are making the same gun in an ultra lightweight called the carbon stalker, about $1,100, probably about $900 on the street.
Howa Carbon Stalker rifle.

  • Calibers:

    Long Action – .270 WIN, 6.5 PRC, 300 WIN MAG, 7MM REM MAG
    Short Action – 6.5 Creedmoor, 7MM-08 REM, .308 WIN
    Mini Action – 6MM ARC < NEW, .223 REM, 6.5 Grendel, 7.62×39, 350 Legend
  • Weight:
    Long Action – 6 lbs 4 oz
    Short Action – 6 lbs 2 oz
    Mini Action – 4 lbs 10 oz
It is an ugly gun, but so is mine, but I have pretty guns at home and do not care in the field. Here is one pic of it.
Air gun Trigger Machine gun Gun barrel Gun accessory



I have mobility issues and lung issues so walking is a big deal. I am lucky to have good buds and have a private lease. I did kill a nice 12 point white tail on public land 5 years ago when we did not have a lease but looks like we will have a paid place to hunt until we die. I am soon to be 74. I was found 100% disabled by the VA about 5 years ago due to lung damage and that keeps me down but my spine is the bigger problem. I have 13 damaged spots that cannot be surgically fixed, just too many of them. They offered to fuse a couple but I passed on that. So, getting very far from the truck is an issue. I checked my GPS in November and was 1,375 yards from my 4 x 4. That is a big deal because I get down and cannot get up, like that old lady in the commercial and there is no cell service where we hunt. So, I just laid out there until I got better a couple hours later. On the up side, that is how I like to hunt open country, just find a hill and lay down and watch, then when I find one, go to it. I have killed dozens and dozens of deer that way in Wyoming, Colorado, and Oklahoma. The problem now is, it takes me a long time to get there and a much longer time to get back. My buddy and I have a pact, we both want to die out there while hunting, rather than in some hospital somewhere. Our wives do not like the idea too much, but he is 76 and I am getting there.

It it usually takes 4-5 days to get a deer because they are scarce, but big where we hunt. So, I just plan around my disabilities. I had a minor heart attack when I was about 52. It and my lung damage really cut me down on how far I could travel. So I just started hunting much slower, stopping and glassing every few minutes and sitting more. Funny thing happened. I started killing lots of big deer. LOL.... I think I was just moving to much. I guess if you know you are in a good area, find a good vantage point, sit down and shut up....

Anyway, that is my new hunting method and it is working great. On this new lease I have killed 7 deer. All of them field dressed between 165 and 182. Pretty big for our area. The one I killed this year was old and broken down and estimated at 8 years old, so we are lucky in that way.

Bedtime for me.
 

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i been running a Bergara B-14 in 30-06 the last few years, i upgraded the scope to a Leupold last fall and i could tell the difference in weight immediately.
it was like i was at the perfect weight and those few ounces suddenly made it noticeable.... LOL
i think it just put a little more weight between the hands instead of just slightly back in the stock where i had it.

I'm kind of upset that they don't make the B-14 in 25-06, or 257 weatherby, but they do make that magazine havin adjustable stocked rifle in 25-06 though.
 

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i been running a Bergara B-14 in 30-06 the last few years, i upgraded the scope to a Leupold last fall and i could tell the difference in weight immediately.
it was like i was at the perfect weight and those few ounces suddenly made it noticeable.... LOL
i think it just put a little more weight between the hands instead of just slightly back in the stock where i had it.

I'm kind of upset that they don't make the B-14 in 25-06, or 257 weatherby, but they do make that magazine havin adjustable stocked rifle in 25-06 though.
The 257 Weatherby was a caliber I always wanted but not willing to pay the $2,500 for the Mark V. I inherited a Mark V Deluxe out of the custom shop and they are really nice. Mine has the added external sights which I like, in case a scope should go bad, or if I wanted to hunt big bears with it sans scope.

You mentioned the 25-06. Not enough difference to matter if a person only shoots 300 yards or under, because there is only about 150-200 fps difference, about an inch at 300.

I bought the entry level Vanguard about $450 at Bass Pro in 2010. It is a big full size gun but shoots so great I just keep hauling it around. My first deer with it was a one shot kill at 403 yards. About a dozen now and the last one in November was 282 yards. They do not really kick much so they are easy to shoot. Recoil is about like a 30-06 with 150 grain bullets.

Weatherby ammo scares some people off, it is not cheap. But the 257 is different from all the rest because it can be formed from 7mm mag brass. I buy new Winchester cases for about 50 cents each and in one stroke of the forming die, poof, they are 257 Mag cases. They are 1/64th in shorter than factory. Weatherby chambers all have extra lead, about 3/8 on most, so length does not matter. The beauty of the 257 Wby also is that you can use extremely long bullets if you wanted to. The formed cases, by the way are no different in velocity or accuracy, all of them whether I load in the Weatherby factory brass of the formed cases, will shoot into about 3/4 inch at 100 yards. I have always been a 30-06 guy until I bought this Vanguard and now am sold on both the gun and the caliber.

Those Bergaras have always been shooters so you would be hard pressed to find a gun that is better. But yep, any less weight is a good thang. I think we all think there is something better out there than what we have. Sure enough lots of new ones.




With my new Burris scope a 4 x 15 x 50 target scope, I think it will get down to about 1/2 inch groups, I just have not shot it but about 20 rounds, and I drilled that deer at 282 yards easily, so whatever it shoots is good enough.


At first I just used reformed ange brass for shooting paper and saved my Weatherby brass for hunting. But I learned that ny taking new Winchester cases, never fired, that they were just too easy for form, so I bought a 100 of them. Now I have maybe 225 cases that are Weatherby brand, about 100 that are pickup 7mm brass that I formed and then fire formed and then 100 of the Winchester formed cases. I use the range brass now for loading the 75 and 87 grain varnint and target loads, I used the new brass that was formed for my 100 grain hunting loads and general use and I use my Weatherby headstamped brass for loading the Accubond 100 grain bullets.
 

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yeah 300ish is my personal limit.
i have a 7X57 ICL which will easily push a 140 to 3-K but generally keep it at 2880 +- about 10.
and i've killed literally everything from rabbits through moose with it.

then the BRNO Mauser 25-06 built around 100gr and lighter bullets, to match the Ruger i built around 120 hornady's.
the Ruger is heavy since it has enough meat in the barrel to make into a 35 whelen with just a re-bore.

then the Bergara 0-6 which i bought because i make my own 30 caliber bullets and that was the best platform to play around with various jackets, core compositions, and bonding techniques.
it quickly become my favorite deer rifle using sierra jackets, a 1-1/2% antimony core, bonding the 2 together, then pushing them along at 2800 fps with 4064.

the wife likes her old model Savage 110 0-6 with a different jacket, same core, and an added cannelure.
only it's floating along at about 2675 she has taken several mule deer and the nephew thinks it is listed in my will as his, since he has also used that combo to take a few deer.... LOL

the 257 weatherby just bounced into my head a couple of years back, and i keep kicking it around.
i know i 'probably' don't need it, just like i don't need a 218 BEE bolt rifle, and i especially don't need it since i don't even run my 25-06 anywhere near it's potential and it's taken some good [250-300lb.] deer a bit past 300yds.

but..... LOL
there's always sumthin out there that might be better.
 

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yeah 300ish is my personal limit.
i have a 7X57 ICL which will easily push a 140 to 3-K but generally keep it at 2880 +- about 10.
and i've killed literally everything from rabbits through moose with it.

then the BRNO Mauser 25-06 built around 100gr and lighter bullets, to match the Ruger i built around 120 hornady's.
the Ruger is heavy since it has enough meat in the barrel to make into a 35 whelen with just a re-bore.

then the Bergara 0-6 which i bought because i make my own 30 caliber bullets and that was the best platform to play around with various jackets, core compositions, and bonding techniques.
it quickly become my favorite deer rifle using sierra jackets, a 1-1/2% antimony core, bonding the 2 together, then pushing them along at 2800 fps with 4064.

the wife likes her old model Savage 110 0-6 with a different jacket, same core, and an added cannelure.
only it's floating along at about 2675 she has taken several mule deer and the nephew thinks it is listed in my will as his, since he has also used that combo to take a few deer.... LOL

the 257 weatherby just bounced into my head a couple of years back, and i keep kicking it around.
i know i 'probably' don't need it, just like i don't need a 218 BEE bolt rifle, and i especially don't need it since i don't even run my 25-06 anywhere near it's potential and it's taken some good [250-300lb.] deer a bit past 300yds.

but..... LOL
there's always sumthin out there that might be better.
The 257 Wby just was something I admired but did not need. I have a 243 and a 30-06 that will each shoot under 1/2 inch all day long, 10 shot groups even, that good. I have killed antelope at 429 with the 243 and a muley that was Boone and Crocket and probably 65-70 deer and goats and elk with the 06 out to 563 yards, so I did not need nothing. I have no reason or plans to shoot beyond 300 yards ever again anyway.

I have a Ruger RSI, the Manlicher that is not so accurate but easy in the brush and I have never missed a deer with it, out beyond 300 yards, it shoots 1.5-2 inch groups, best I can get but OK by me. I have the 300 Wby as well and those 4 guns make up 95% of my deer hunting.

And I have others including Semi autos I have killed deer with. Just wanted the 257. Now about a dozen deer and 11 years later, I just love the caliber. Just like shooting the 243, basically recoil neutral and you know when you pull the trigger the deal is done. Lots of confidence in it. I have mostly used 100 grain Sierras and Noslers but also load the 110 grain Accubond just have not killed with them.

Mine has the 24 inch barrel which many say matters, but some gun writers testing has suggested it does not affect velocity that much at all. The one lusting thought I did have though is that Remington makes them in stainless with a 26 inch barrel. Really wanted one of those but was not aware of them until I had killed a bunch with the Vanguard. Not sure if they still make them but they sure look fine. If anything happened to the Vanguard this would prolly be my choice. Do not see me paying the big bucks for the Mark V. If you get a 257, you will be impressed. Just leave that range finder in your pack, you see em you shoot em. If they are a long way out, just hold high on them. LOL
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