dumb question about powder

Discussion in 'General Reloading' started by cooker300, Oct 3, 2010.

  1. cooker300

    cooker300 G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    how do you know what powders are faster or hotter?

    resaon im asking is my brother and i reload for his 40S&W springfield XDM 4"
    and he was telling me that when he was shooting last time there was alot of smoke after each shot.
    i told him it sound like the powder wasnt burning completely we used bullseye and it i remember right it was right at 4.5gr.

    so im thinking we need a faster or hotter burning powder. and since im still new im not 100% sure how to tell this requried INFO..

    and help would be great.

    matt
     
  2. hey_poolboy

    hey_poolboy G&G Addict

    This link should help you out. I've only used bullseye for .45ACP, but the only time I've had problems like you describe is because I was trying to load too LIGHT.
     

  3. 338RUM

    338RUM G&G Evangelist

    if you are loading bullseye then it likes fairly heavy charges and heavy crimps to get to burn w/o looking like black powder
     
  4. I need to watch this one. I am trying to come up with a starting load for my XD 40 4". I was thinking of using IMR 800X powder with Hornady HP-XTP 180 GR bullets and starting with 6 gm of powder and working from there. Going with a 1.115" OAL and using CCI 500 primers.

    What do you guys think?
     
  5. 338RUM

    338RUM G&G Evangelist

    that 6 grams of powder won't fit in the case! LOL sorry I had to do it... 6 grains should be a fine starting point just be sure to put a nice taper crimp on them!
     
  6. I need an editor LOL
     
  7. cooker300

    cooker300 G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    hey_poolboy thanks for the link.

    so do you guys think a crimp would help or a faster powder or just more of what were useing??
    we were loading rainners and berrys rn so the books had no load for them we just took 2 books that 165gn bullets and compaired them and im thinking we added .2 from one book and subtracted .2 from the other one and came up with the 4.5gn.

    in my xd 4" service 45acp no complants.
     
  8. Tracer

    Tracer G&G Aussie Dad

    a good crimp will allow it to build pressure ensuring a clean burn.It also ensures uniformity which equals accuracy remember the .40 headspaces on the case mouth so don't get carried away.I suggest the lee factory crimp die.I shoot 5.0 grains of 700x with a cast 165 gr cast bullet. very clean powder.there are burn rate charts in most manuals, their importance is a bit of a controversy though.remember the manufactuer is always a good source of info for their reloading component
     
  9. Purdy

    Purdy G&G Evangelist

    I always thought Bullseye was pretty fast??
     
  10. waterdog

    waterdog G&G Enthusiast

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  11. hey_poolboy

    hey_poolboy G&G Addict

    I would fiddle around where you are. You might try looking here. If these guys don't have load data for you no one will. Just select the caliber and you'll see a myriad of projectile types and weights to choose from. This way you can see what has worked for others and see a max load for your situation so you can know you're safe.
     
  12. TGF

    TGF G&G Newbie

    i use titegroup 4.5gr in my xdm and xd sub. Works great.
     
  13. DaTeacha

    DaTeacha Things are not what they seem. Forum Contributor

    Many manuals have a powder burn rate chart, but don't think you can just move up a step or two and change out for another powder. Follow the published recipes for your maximum and minumum loads or you could have a serious problem. If you accept that the powder load is light, as stated above, substituting a magnum primer might help it light off better, but wait until Sam or Jimkim or someone else with lots of experience wades in on that idea before trying it.
     
  14. Alliant shows a max of 5.8gr BE with a 165gr Speer. You should have no pressure problems at all with 4.5. As far as not getting a complete burn goes, that sounds a little odd with BE. BE is very fast. Make sure your primer pockets and flash holes are clean. Try a different primer. It sounds a little like an ignition problem to me. My next guess would be improperly stored powder. Are you sure it's an incomplete burn, and not just soot? Alliant Powder - Reloader's Guide
     
  15. cooker300

    cooker300 G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    jim
    im not 100% sure my brother lives 300 miles from me and he gets to my house about 3 times a year and we load him up 500 or so rounds. the 1st 1250to 1500 we did went like this
    his gun was a high point 40 s&w we did 250 nosler pistol bullets 165'sgn . with cci small pistol primers all were once fired brass we tumbled the brass cleanen the primer pockets and loaded the bullets with Bulleyes forget the charge.

    next he had 500 cast bullets shipped to me i did all the same steps got about 250 done then he showed up and finished them off im think it was 4.5 or 4.6 of BE and same primes those 750 were fine.
    then he bought his XDM 40
    next he came down and we did 500 165 gn ranniers with the same steps involved same primers and a new # of powder ( cause i use some for my 45acp) the when i was at work he ran to cabelas and bought 250 165 gn berry's and we did those since he was here. he went home called me the night before last and told me when was out shooting after 3 mags it was smoking from here on and he shot 200 rounds. and when he took the gun apart to clean he said it looked like a inline muzzler loader in the barrel. and my thoughts were what i listed in the first post of this thread.
    so i came to the folks of G&G for help
     
  16. It could be a dirtier burning lot. I'm trying to think what kind of oil my buddy Glenn used on his Marlin. We shot a few rounds one day, and several of them smoked like Pyrodex. Sorry I couldn't be of more help. You could probably ask over at the CBA and get a better answer from Ed Harris. The Cast Bullet Association Inc. Forum
     
  17. samuel

    samuel G&G Newbie

    15,235
    36
    Two things,first more release tension,(smaller id in case mouth or better crimp.Second,heavier charge.The other choice is what I use,a slower burn rate.The reason is your fast powder starts the bullet faster not allowing time enough for pressure buildup for cleaner burn.Some of this can be controlled by higher release lbs.However this can lead to accuracy loss.I do not crimp,just tight id and I use slower burn rate like HP38,universal clays,unique,wsf.I also have no experience with cast in .40S&W.A personal opinion,I think going faster on burn would be detrimental.
     
  18. cold queso

    cold queso G&G Regular

    What type of lube is on the cast bullets? This is a common source of smoke when shooting cast bullets.
     
  19. cooker300

    cooker300 G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    sorry for the confussion guys the cast bullets have all been shot. they were not the problem. the problem started with this batch of berry"s and rainners plated's. for some reason.

    jim & sam thanks like always a 100% sure fire answer would be super you guys do your best to get new guys pointed in the right direction.
    you 2 are some of the few on this site that when i or any other new guy ask a Question you do your darnest to help them out quickly as possible.
     
  20. gandog56

    gandog56 G&G Evangelist

    Umm, were you using the same recipe for the Berrys as for the cast.

    Because you shouldn't have. Copper plated should be loaded somewhere in between lead and jacketed bullets of the same weight.