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FFLs: When not to sell

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by BattleRifleG3, May 12, 2002.

  1. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Yes there are instant criminal background checks and everything, but that doesn't mean FFLs don't have to exercise some judgement when deciding whether or not to sell a gun to someone. I was wondering what thoughts people had about this issue.

    I was at a gun show once where a lady approached a dealer to buy an SWD-11, semi auto MAC-11. While his assistant was getting form 4473 ready, he informed her that he was not comfortable selling it to her.
    "Can you do that?"
    "Yes I can, and I'm supposed to." or something like that.
    Well she became indignant, cried race, and stormed out of there.

    Here's what went through my mind for the rest of the day: I'd be concerned about anyone who so quickly, without examining the weapon carefully, without asking questions, without displaying knowledge about what they were buying, asked to buy such a serious weapon. I'd at the very least be concerned about their level of safety in operating it. And of course there are concerns about criminal intentions of some sort. But it would be a pretty hard decision for me in any circumstance.

    What I later found out: Apparently she had approached other dealers about similar weapons, all of whom were suspicious of her and spread word to the others. I saw her with several other people and it's been suggested to me that she was planning to buy it for someone else, illegal to do with a pistol w/o NICS, and possibly for someone who couldn't pass NICS. I also learned that that particular dealer "hates blacks".

    I've tried to think of what I'd do in a situation where I was suspicious. Or how to make sure I'm not fooled by people who put on a responsible front. I've thought they should be asked what shooting experience they've had and if they've ever had safety instruction. I'd also give them all kinds of information to help in choosing a firearm, and if they get impatient, that may be a clue. I'd consider telling them to please come back after doing their homework on the subject.

    But those are just my ideas. I've never been in the gun business. The only guns I've sold privately are rifles, and one buyer was a dealer and the other carried another rifle he bought that bore the "OK to release" sticker, meaning that he'd just gone through NICS. He was also patient, showed me his CCW, driver's lisence, and signed my little private transfer form saying he could legally buy a gun and knew what he was buying. I gave him a slip saying I was the legal owner.

    The last thing I'd want would be to be branded a racist, since I'm absolutely not, and also because in my region that would kill my business. Neither would I want to deny a gun to a responsible citizen just because of a stereotype. If such a customer would listen, I'd explain that a safety error can kill anyone, including members of my family and theirs. But if they don't listen... I dunno.

    So what do you guys think?
     
    Last edited: May 12, 2002
  2. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    On another note, what are your thoughts on video surveillance? On the one hand, I wouldn't want to be "registered" as having bought a gun for future persecution, nor would I want private conversations monitored. But I'd also want to be able to show what happened in case it ever goes to court.
     

  3. Chris

    Chris Administrator Staff Member

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    Funny you should say this....

    Not too long ago, a group of what seemed to be gang members, you name it to a T, it was just that, 5 of them always come around , now sometimes they are white, hispanic, and in this case they were black. But around closing time they come around, looking to steal in most cases.

    Well one went to this one table, and started pulling on the guns, and the dealer, asked if he was 21, he said no, they the guy said " I can look", Dealer responds, "No sir, I can not even try to sell you that gun, ou are under 21", a little argument went on, the dealer came back, "I am close its 4:57, and the shows closes at 5.
    The guy motions and 4 others just like him, come up, and almost trying to be threatening, the dealer asked for them to get away from his tables, he would not consider selling anything, because he looks like his is up to no good. The guys were like your racist, Dealer said "No, I just dont sell to people who look like they are up to no good, you want to purchase a gun from me, go pull your pants up from your knees and and dress appropriatly, dont give me the impression of what you are right now"

    The boys were like "We will be back", mutters something about going to their cars...

    Well I know that Dealer must have been scared, and I saw him loading a few weapons, I figured they might be coming back, and said something to the local sherrif that was there...

    But ATF, clearly states that if they look nervous, or such, then don't sell it to them, I mean after all, if they use it for harm, it makes ever gun owner look bad.

    I would only sell a firearm to a person, after several minutes of conversation, and thorugh of breakdown on the gun, and the person seem to grasp what was being said, like you said BattleRifleG3, ...

    Thats my idea, like them or not, they are mine....
     
  4. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Not only does it make every gun owner look bad, but you could have prevented something with a simple "No". It's the kind of I'd lose sleep over.
    Glad to know the ATF rules about nervousness and such. Maybe the second best thing to a drug test. Personally, I was a little nervous my first couple guns being the first time I ever spent so much money at once and the first guns I'd ever owned, and being during the Clinton administration... But I've loosened up. I used to know 4473 like the back of my hand, till they changed it. Of course after the G3 everything else was a step down, so it got a bit easier.
     
  5. Chris

    Chris Administrator Staff Member

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    For sure, the new 4733 after 9/11 has ppl asking huh?

    But its getting better and easier for people to act normal, one guy that is 53 years old, filled his first one last week so him and his son can go hunting....he acted a bit nervous about it, cause he didnt know what it was....so your not alone
     
  6. PAPA G

    PAPA G G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    the dealer could have told the lady to come by the shop to pick up the weapon during regular business hours and have the BATF waiting to do the dirty work!!!
     
  7. Chris

    Chris Administrator Staff Member

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    Well I wouldnt want BATF near me, any at all, never, in that kind of scenario....I mean their could be traps, and well if your stupid enough to fall for them , you deserve it, but no amount of money is worth selling a gun and they going out to shoot someone....

    I recall from a child-hood hero, you might know him, he let a robber get away that he could of stopped, and later that robber killed his Uncle. "With Great Power comes Great Responsibility"
    Spider-Man is the answer to life...

    Well maybe not, but it sure is the best quote for this.
     
  8. NRAJOE

    NRAJOE YOU TALKIN' TO ME!? Forum Contributor

    I HAVE A CURIO & RELICS FIREARM LICENSE. FREINDS THINK IT'S LIKE" WOW FREE GUNS AND GEE, GET ME THIS AND THAT AND I WANT TO SELL THEM TO SOMEONE LATER" THEY GOT MAD WHEN I TOLD THEM IN ORDER FOR ME TO LEGALLY SELL THEM OR TRADE THEM SOMETHING, THEY SHOULD HAVE A C&R ALSO. OR AT THE VERY LEAST REALLY TRUSTED FREINDS WILL HAVE TO FILL OUT A FORM TO COVER MY BUTT! THEY GET MAD AND SAY "FORGET IT, NOW YOU GET DISCOUNT GUNS AND ARE BEING SELFISH ABOUT IT!" THEY DON'T REALIZE I HAVE TO KEEP A BOUND BOOK RECORDING ALL PURCHASES AND TRANSFERS AND ATF CAN CALL AT ANYTIME ASKING TO LOOK AT THEM. TRUE FREINDS UNDERSTAND.