close

Privacy guaranteed - Your email is not shared with anyone.

Getting a silencer??? How

Discussion in 'Silencers' started by deaken25, Jan 8, 2013.

  1. rondog

    rondog G&G Evangelist

    I'm talking more about the cost. $200 ea. + cost of the can + waiting for God knows how long = too much for me.

    And I've never been that impressed with suppressors, they're still pretty loud unless it's a .22. Just not worth it to me, but that's JMHO.

    And in this current anti-gun political environment, I can imagine getting suppressors might become a little tougher. Not to mention bring much closer scrutiny down upon thee. I don't need Big Brother watching me closer because I own a "silencer", I don't even like to buy new guns and fill out 4473's. I avoid that whenever possible.

    "OMG! He wants a silencer! Think of the children!!! Better watch this one closely." Sorry, I don't need that.

    Loud bangs are accepted well at my club range. In fact, last time I was there a guy was shooting a suppressed AR, and it was still pretty damned loud. Loud enough that I couldn't see any benefit to it.

    But hey, if a person wants one bad enough to jump through the hoops and pay the costs, then we damned well better have the RIGHT to have them without any BS!!! Taking that right away from us is unacceptable. And the same with close scrutiny of owners, ain't no reason for that either. But I bet it won't stop them.
     
  2. Ranb

    Ranb G&G Addict

    Sure I can live without them, but why would I? I spend more on ammo for each gun I suppress than the cost of the materials and tax. Once you go black (suppressed) you never go back. :)

    Ranb
     
    TXplt likes this.

  3. Ranb

    Ranb G&G Addict

    As long as silencers remain the property of the small minority of gun owners, they will reamain on the NFA registry. We need every gun owners help to make them more mainstream.

    Ranb
     
  4. Twitch2120

    Twitch2120 G&G Evangelist

    its only polite to shoot suppressed :D
     
  5. What is the difference in inheritance between the trust and a individual?

    I was told that as an individual I can will it to my family/kids without the transfer tax, so I did my suppressor as an individual. Can the trust do the same and how long does it last? Other details?
     
  6. Ranb

    Ranb G&G Addict

    The way I understand it, an heir that is listed in the will as receiving the firearm gets it on an ATF form 5. The executor of your estate will control the firearm until the ATF form 5 is approved. There is no tax involved with the form 5.

    For a trust, the benficiary gets the property upon the death of the trustee or when other conditions of the trust are met. If the trust is a revocable trust, you as the trustee can simply add your children as trustees when they become adults as far as I know.

    My adivce is worth what you paid for it, talk to a lawyer to get the real scoop.

    Ranb
     
  7. Ranb

    Ranb G&G Addict

    I'm 22 years into a planned 45 year long gun collecting hobby. In the long run 6 months is nothing; except when I am awaiting approval of my last application. :)

    Ranb
     
  8. cor3y.bb

    cor3y.bb G&G Newbie

    Honestly go ahead and make your own, or travel to a state there fully legal and pick one up, its stupid, for what ever reason you want one, could be hunting, you dont want to scare away every other deer* for example away , nice and silent but sadly enough i live in Australia we cant own this, machine guns, cant have any ar-15's or anything decent i don't think we can hold more than like 8-10 rounds in a gun
     
  9. Twitch2120

    Twitch2120 G&G Evangelist

    trusts go through a form 9. individual form 5.

    as some interesting info, the ATF is thinking of dropping the CLEO signoff on individual form 4's but adding fingerprints and photos for all involved in a trust/corp.
     
  10. Ranb

    Ranb G&G Addict

    What are you referring to about the ATF form 9? It is for export.

    Here is some info on the new changes for trusts/corps and the CLEO sig.

    View Rule
    Looks like the requirements for the indivdual maker/owner will suck less and the trust owners will suck more. :(

    Ranb
     
  11. rondog

    rondog G&G Evangelist

    One of THESE, I could go for. Or a can on my .22 Buckmark maybe. But I just don't have a burning desire to put one on anything else. Especially after watching that guy shooting his suppressed AR15 and how loud it still was. I'm not even sure it was really quieter, just sounded a lot different.

    [​IMG]
     
  12. Ranb

    Ranb G&G Addict

    Watching a video online is a very poor way to evaluate how well a silencer works or doesn't work.

    Imagine watching a video of unsuppressed gunfire on your home computer or at the movie theater. To have realistic sound, the speakers need to be powerful enough to generate at least 160 decibels of noise. In other words it would be a very uncomfortable viewing experience unless you were wearing hearing protection. To do this you would need a good microphone and a recording medium that is capable of storing noise levels that vary by 160 decibels as well as a sound system capable of playing back the loud noise.

    A loud rock concert is about 115 decibels, this is the noise level of a suppressed Ruger 10/22. The only reason the suppressed 10/22 is safe to shoot without ear plugs is the short duration of the blast. A camcorder microphone, computer software and flv format used by most online video sites distorts the noise level and makes accurate reproduction of the noise impossible.

    When I record unsuppressed and suppressed center fire rifles, I position the camcorder as far away as possible to keep the noise from completely overpowering microphone. Some microphones also have an auto gain to keep the high noise levels from playing back distorted, this makes suppressed and unsuppressed noise sound nearly the same on playback. Of course I can manipulate the playback level by reducing the suppressed gun fire volume and leaving the unsuppressed gunfire at the normal level with my video processing software.

    You need to actually be there to appreciate how well silencers work, you also need to have realistic expectations of their capabilites. While I have been openly mocked at a rifle range of shooting a suppressed 22lr that made little noise, no one has ever claimed that I was wasting my time when watching me shoot a suppressed high powered rifle when they saw the difference.

    I met one person who commented that my suppressed ar-15 was not that good. He changed his mind when I had an unsuppressed ar-15 shoot side by side with the suppressed one while he listened without ear plugs in. :)

    I made a near copy of a Delisle carbine with an Enfield No. 1, a Rhineland Arms 45 acp barrel and an 18" long 50 caliber silencer. It was a little bit less noisy than an HK 45acp with an Osprey silencer. There is a point of deminishing returns when it comes to silencer volume.

    Ranb

    Edited to add; Rondog, I re-read your post and see that you were present while a suppressed AR-15 was being fired. My post does contain good info for those who watch Youtube videos though. :)
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2013
    TXplt likes this.
  13. TACAV

    TACAV G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    13,435
    10,331
    Very good points and very true. ^^^^
     
  14. Rave

    Rave G&G Evangelist

    After hearing about all the BS one has to go through for a suppressor I will just have to wait for the HPA to go through,sigh. :(
     
    jwrauch likes this.
  15. Ron Eagle Elk

    Ron Eagle Elk G&G Evangelist

    Twitch2120 is pretty spot on. I bought mine through https://www.silencershop.com/ . Pretty simple really. Basically, they fill out all your paper work for you. You pay them for the suppressor and tax stamp, then get your fingerprints and passport photo and send them to them. Luckily, they have kiosks all around the country so you can get your fingerprints sent in for free if there is a kiiosk near you. They also have an app that lets you send in a photo from your phone to serve as the passport photo. They will keep you advised as to when the ATF cashes the check and when they approve your background check. It took about 10 months for mine to come back approved.

    The ATF approved your purchase based on the serial number and type of silencer, I believe. My Form 4 has the seriel number and manufacturer listed on the form, along with the Tax Stamp.

    If you can get a concealed carry permit and buy a hand gun, you will probably be approved for the suppressor.
     
    jwrauch and BaserRonin like this.
  16. Twitch2120

    Twitch2120 G&G Evangelist

    Also, the methods for acquiring a silencer are a bit different now incase google redirects people here. The CLEO sign off has been removed for individual form 4 and form 1. However, the trust route now requires the fingerprints and passport-esqe photos for all trustees in the trust. Many class 3 dealers have invested in materials to do the prints and photos in store so its not THAT bad. Anyways, dont let the paperwork turn you folks off. It's a bit more work but the payoff is excellent!
     
    BaserRonin and TXplt like this.
  17. TXplt

    TXplt Gun Toting Boeing Driver Forum Contributor

    The trust route became less advantageous when they started requiring pics and cards. My individual buy (did the first in a trust and the second one as an individual) did require a CLEO inform; not really a sign off but more that I'd told them. Since ours has a similar model to mine it's a non-event.

    The paperwork is a bit onerous, but not terrible, and the payoff is worth it.

    The wait time is what sucked. Perhaps this will be getting better post-election.

    And the NICE thing is once you have it you have it. And if you buy a quality suppressor they last a LONG time (and can be used on different guns). The Omega is an excellent overall suppressor. And the 556K ain't bad either.
     
  18. 99dragon99

    99dragon99 G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor


    Hmmm... I was thinking about going the trust way for a silencer. Did you do it in TX? What was the process?
     
  19. TXplt

    TXplt Gun Toting Boeing Driver Forum Contributor

    Yes--did it in TX. There are many sources for the online trust paperwork or a lawyer can draw it up.

    I used these guys for the trust (not necessarily endorsing them but I think it was 60 bucks or so and it worked).

    http://199trust.com

    You need to notarize the trust with the settlor and co-trustees. You can add people later. The FFL took the trust paperwork and submitted it along with the NFA paperwork (used grabagun in Coppell and this process seemed to work fine; most NFA FFLs will walk you through the process).

    The advantage of a trust is any co-trustee can use and possess any of the NFA (so long as they're qualified individuals, etc.).

    NOW

    What happened subsequent to the purchase of the Omega is that the ATF changed their policy requiring fingerprint cards and photos of the co-trustees for subsequent purchases. For me, that greatly negated the reason to have the trust in the first place (the only real advantage moving forward is that the NFA can pass unencumbered through co-trustees--and you can have a bunch of friends on there but you do need to notarize the paperwork together). So for the second suppressor having it in a trust didn't greatly matter (since I needed to get the fingerprint cards and photos anyway)--so I processed the paperwork as an individual (you get a couple of passport photos and go to your local cop shop for the fingerprint cards; the NFA dealer will walk you through the rest).

    The only disadvantage is technically if it's not in a trust others are not supposed to be using the suppressor without my being there (which doesn't really happen anyway). If you're a worried sort you can use the trust to pass the can along after your demise (I'm not a worried sort and don't really envision much trouble for a stellite hunk of metal hanging around somewhere on the planet after I leave it nor it causing difficulty to whomever might stumble upon it amongst all of my other junk). I don't know of any rule restricting storage, etc. or requiring you have a stamp with you when you are using it (or the trust along if it applies). What I did was scan in the form with the tax stamp into the cloud so I can pull it up (along with the trust) if I need to on a mobile device which never seems to happen. Generally the original paperwork stays somewhere near where the can is when I'm away from home with it (like way far from home; not at the range necessarily); you can decide for yourself what you want to do with it and perhaps someone here knows better.

    The process took some time in getting the fingerprint cards (passport photos are easy) and in the long wait--other than that it wasn't too bad (the NFA dealers are pretty good in making things happen and I think some have electronic fingerprint systems). I kinda viewed the whole thing as a hurdle (not unlike 'paying the lady' for some type of license, etc. in Mexico or the Philippines--or a fine for something stupid--but a slightly less 'honest' and more expensive process in the US). It's not daunting and I really like the decrease in muzzle blast and noise.

    Now, DO remember that these things can get REALLY REALLY hot when you use them with centerfire ammo shooting a bit. I'd be careful screwing a warm can onto a quick disconnect fitting too tightly (they can get stuck) and after you get done shooting treat the can kinda like a soldering iron and give it time to cool.

    Hope this helps.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2017