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Give me your opinion...

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by oneastrix, May 14, 2002.

  1. oneastrix

    oneastrix G&G Newbie

    Handgun bullet weight for self defense. Fast and light or slow and heavy (slow being used in terms of relativity. I know 900 fps isn't really slow!).

    Down where I live, fast and light seems to be the trend......
     
    Last edited: May 14, 2002
  2. Big Dog

    Big Dog Retired IT Dinosaur Wrangler Forum Contributor

    I'm a bit old-school, so I prefer slow and heavy. I'm a 1911 fan. If you can't hit him with seven, why do you think you'll still be alive to try the other eight?
     

  3. jerry

    jerry Since 2002 Forum Contributor

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    kind of depends, I reckon in Texas there aren't too many people wearing down jackets with layers of clothes beneath. this will turn any good HP into ball makes sense at this juncture to have it a bit on the heavy and pushy side. a bad guy in a tank top, I could live with lighter weight construction. find out what your brothers up north like as opposed to south. i think there will be a difference.
     
  4. Eric

    Eric G&G Newbie

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    In my honest opinion, nothing, for self defense, beats the old standby 230 gr. FMJ traveling at around 850fps. Guess you can tell I'm 1911er. Good Shooting! Eric
     
  5. NRAJOE

    NRAJOE YOU TALKIN' TO ME!? Forum Contributor

    YES SIR, OLD SLAB SIDES .45 WITH HOLLOW POINTS! BLACK TALON.
     
  6. Tal/IL

    Tal/IL G&G Newbie

    A few years ago, when I made my living by staying up on such things, the best info available from analysis of actual law enforcement shooting incidents showed the round that most reliably took an assailant off his feet with one hit was the .357 Mag high velocity, 125 grn HP . This was in comparison to most "self defense" handgun rounds - excluding the .44 Mag.
     
  7. I dunno

    Howdy,

    I guess anything that goes boom and flies, that way, very fast is better than nothing.

    "Those are my principles. If you don't like them I have others." {Groucho Marx}
     
  8. jerry

    jerry Since 2002 Forum Contributor

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    Tal,
    btw, your correct the 125 screamer has a good "street record" the .45 has allowed a lot of people to meet their makers. In my neck of the woods Tallons are LEO only, I still have a few. shot some into wet phone books. OUCH!
    Use whatever you good with, the hurt will follow. If all else fails hit the scum over the head with it!
     
  9. Has anyone had any experience with the .357 sig, what kinda performance do one get out of them??
    -Jesse
     
  10. jerry

    jerry Since 2002 Forum Contributor

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    looking a the load data, pretty close to .357 mag in the lighter bullet range. a few here have one and like 'em
     
  11. Calvin

    Calvin G&G Newbie

    I would have to say that dead is dead, regardless if the bullet was big and slow or small and fast. I'm split between the .357 and the .45. In winter/cool months, the .45 is my choice, as it will punch through heavy clothes. Easier to conceal one beneath the jacket.In warm months, I prefer the.357 because you can carry a snub in a pair of shorts, and not many people would know. Then, again, it all comes down to what you have and where you place the bullets.
     
  12. oneastrix

    oneastrix G&G Newbie

    Jesse, I have seen a 124gr Speer Golddot 357Sig shot into 10% Ballistic Gel. It put the breaks on at about 13". Beautiful expansion. Literally lifted the gel block up off of the table and spun it.
    Highway patrol carries that particular round down here in TX. I was issued it when I was a deputy on the Tex/Mex border. I have faith in it, but I now carry .40SW and am comfortable with it completely.
     
  13. Pumpkinheaver

    Pumpkinheaver G&G Evangelist

    I'm kind of in the middle concerning this subject. I have and still regularly keep my 1911 loaded with Federal 165gr hydrashocks. I've also kept it loaded with ball ammo. My all time favorite .45acp round is the corbon 200gr +p, thus spliting the difference between the two extremes.

    :target:
     
  14. Shaun

    Shaun G&G Evangelist

    I'll take my 230gr Ashtrays any day
     
  15. BenP

    BenP G&G Newbie

    Growing up around Law enforcement, I knew all the respectable cops carried 357 mags with 125 gr JHP ammo. In the military, and later on working with LE agencies, the 45 became the sidearm of choice, edging the 357 only because of the apparent ineffectiveness of 9mm/38 cal ammo, and the fact that hi capacity semi autos were proliferating amongst the criminal element, and those cops wanted to be at least fairly matched. I strongly believe that both the 357 mag and the 45 auto loads are effective manstoppers.

    That said, I was highly enamoured with the 10mm Bren Ten semi auto when it first came out. Don Johnson packed one on Miami Vice, and the specs coming out on the round were truly inspiring, especially for someone who felt that the 44 mag was the ultimate self defense handgun, if only the firearms built for it were more concealable. In actual self defense situations, the 44 mag and the 10 mm have proven to be too much gun and round. The loads are just too hot, and tend to overpenetrate, as well as detract from shooter agility due to the higher muzzleblast/recoil effect. True, some 357s can fit in that category too. This is an important factor, because it led to a national drive in law enforcement to adopt high capacity semi-auto pistols chambered in 40 S&W, which is just a reduced load 10 mm. Basically, it's a 180 gr. JHP moving between 45 and 9mm velocities. I think this may be the ideal combination for self defense handgun.

    As for me, I won't be getting rid of my Glock 21 anytime soon. But then, I shoot 230 gr. JHP pushed up to 9mm velocities (1050 to 1200 fps). Why, because I'm 6'6" and 260 lbs, I practice enough with it, and I can handle magnum loads (think of it as a Canadian Brigadier, only built to last). It does get attention when I'm at the shooting range on the firing line and in the midst of all these pop-pop-pops, there comes the boom-boom booms.

    I've seen people shoot coyotes with 9mms and watched the yotes stumble after being hit and then keep running. I've shot yotes with my 45, and it picks em up and slams them down, and they don't get up again, though they may struggle a little.
     
  16. 8mm vig.
    First I love your new avitar.
    Ok I have a friend that works in the local county lockup she carries a 357 sig. a glock of some sort real small to fit her little hands.
    She out shoots all the CO's every year in qualifications had to get the sheriff to issue a waiver so she could cary it instead of the 40's the others cary. she does well with it and thats all that matters. I cary a colt combat comander in 45. I also have a colt cobra in 38 spec. that I some times cary instead. I can hit my target accuratly with both so I cary them. My girlfriend has a whalter ppks in 380 she can't hit squat past 10 feet with it and she knows it but, inside 10 feet she can change you from a cock to a hen in one shot so as long as she feel comfortable with it I let her cary it(really its mine I just dodn't like all the ball bustin I get at the gun shop when I cary it) I supose it comes down to what you can comfortably shoot I agree with most of these guys that the 45 is the one of the best. one of not the best.
    the best self defence round is one that you can handle with confidence and accuracy Its my thinking that if you are not comfortable with it it won't do you much good no mater what cal it is. hay just my thoughts take them or leave them.
    I do like that avitar though.
     
  17. Rave

    Rave G&G Evangelist

    I tend to like pistol cal. carbines for the house as I don't have a supressor,but I do like the .44 spl. with 200gr hollow points at 1000 fps out of a heavy 4" barrel, I think it is adequite and won't blow my eardrums out.:nod: :nod: :nod: :target:
     
  18. FireStar

    FireStar G&G Newbie

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    I keep my FireStar .40 S&W loaded with 180 grain Winchester SXT Black Talons. Muzzle velocity is 990 fps... while muzzle energy is 392 ft/lbs.
     
  19. Logansdad

    Logansdad Guest

    Light & fast...125 grain .357 Magnum Hydra Shok