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Grizzly Wars must go on!

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by BattleRifleG3, Mar 15, 2002.

  1. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 Retired Moderator

    Can't let this thread die on the old forum...

    Ok, we've established so far that the gun doesn't make the kill, the hunter does. But, there are good and not so good tools for the task, and since expert opinions abound, how about identifying:

    1.) An appropriate weapon to HUNT grizzly bear. My assumption is .375 caliber and up, including .45-70. A friend of mine says .45-70 would be unadvisable, that .375 H&H is the minimum. Others say .300 Win Mag is the minimum and that .338 Win Mag is preferred. Others say that .30-06 will take anything on the continent. What say the experts?

    2.) An appropriate weapon to carry while hiking or otherwise travelling in bear country with anything less than a monster truck. To me, a longarm wouldn't seem too big of a deal to carry (the joy of having one would be worth the effort). My preference would be a Mossberg 12ga pump shotgun with rifled slugs. Some say to alternate slugs and buck, is there a reason for this? And is there a particular advantage to a semi auto, or is a pump just as good? I'm pretty good with a pump, but wouldn't mind an excuse to buy another gun.

    3.) A weapon to keep around in case one comes by and the classic behavioral stuff doesn't work. Nothing's too big for this category.

    4.) I heard of a guy who taught in Alaska and carried an SKS to school every day on his snowmobile. If visiting a friend in the northernmost edge of Alaska, should one consider assisting in the public defense by bringing their tactical rifles, say AK-47 or HK-91 with them?
     
  2. Shaun

    Shaun Retired Moderator


  3. bottlbob

    bottlbob G&G Newbie

    grizzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz

    i still feel that stopping a charging grizz is first on the list , killing it is second.
    granted, if you can stop it and kill it with the first shot--that is the prefered way.
    a head or spine or shoulder shot with a large heavy hard bullet will suffice if you get penetration.
    too soft of bullets will flatten out or glance off.
    a grizz with a bullet straight through his noggin will drop now-
    a spine shot will stop him also right now.
    a shot through both shoulders might not kill him right now but he wont be goin anywhere while ya finish him off.
    45/70 garrett 530 hard cast hammerheads------my choice.
    marlin guide gun 1895gss.
    just my opinion
     
  4. Doglips

    Doglips G&G Newbie

    This was a long post before

    I rember reading this a few days ago...I live in FL so no grizleys but from what I read if you are on a guided hunt then the guide will protect you...or at least recover your wallet.
    I see the problem being that IF you shoot a grezzlie with the wrong gun or miss and it charges then you got problems...Im sure an AK with a few 30 round clips would make a diffrence....or as others posted a 12 ga with slugs....but IF the bear is chargeing and is close then a person may freze and any gun would be worthless....if it is a distance away get inside the truck/ATV and haul butt.
    I know they make a 45/70 derringer the Alasken modle for these situations but too ME if you put yourself in a posion to get mugged by a bear then welp the bear gets a free swing.

    Course there is the old joke....want to stop a bear from chargeing...take away his/her credit cards..
     
  5. Mick

    Mick G&G Addict

    big game hunting

    Hey fellas, I' from Australia so no bears here exept Koala and they are protected, so I hunt wild boar, with dogs. I was on another American boar hunting site and I noticed that there was no one in the photos using protective collars or breastplates for their dogs. Is this common in USA? Also is there an industry for wild hog meat over there? In AUS we have chiller boxes in nearly every country town that buys the wild hogs ( you must be an accredited hunter, to do this you must do a meat handling course and have a crate made of stainless steel on you're truck for hanging the carcases an during transport) The meat is then sold overseas eg. Germany and Asia.
    Any information would be great.
     
  6. Jesse

    Jesse G&G Newbie Forum Contributor

    2,036
    3
    Australia!

    My Grandparents and Aunts/Uncles just got back from a month tour of Australia and New Zealand. Hog hunting is a great hunt here in the US. really big in the Appalachian mountains as well as areas of the South extending to Texas.

    If you don't mind sharing with members of the forum... how have the new firearms laws in Austrialia affected hunters and shooters...


    Welcome Aboard!

    Jesse:cool:
     
  7. Another good choice is the Marlin Guide Gun chamber in .450 Marlin. Topped with a good 11/2-5 variable scope.
    This would be a very hard combo to beat in close quarters.
     
  8. Mick

    Mick G&G Addict

    Gun laws

    Unless you want to own an assault rifle the laws havn't changed much. It is impossible to own an assault rifle unless you own 8000 acres and can show good reson for needing one. The process for buying guns has slowed down a bit also, I don't know how long it takes to get a handgun, but I recently bought a 44/40 lever and it took about two months.
    It has also made it more restrictive on the transport of weapons, metal rifle cases with dual locking systems bolted to the floor of the vehicle out of sight, kind of hard to do in a single cab Toyota Hilux I must say.
     
  9. JohnD

    JohnD Member

    mick-your laws are worse than canada's

    I thought our wait of 30min. was bad for rifles.

    If I could choose a weapon I would choose a m60 belt fed 100+ rds should do nice things to a grizzly!!!, If you were to spay him with sub gun fire say a 9mm with full metal jackets might work to if you hit the skull.
     
  10. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 Retired Moderator

    Well, it's not an M60, but...

    With the new foregrip I made for my HK-91, I figure it's as close as you can get to an M60 (except the semi-auto ones). Same caliber.

    Here's a question: is there a balance between number of bullets and their size in terms of stopping power? Like say three rounds of .458 vs 8 of .45-70 vs 20 of .308 vs 30 of 7.62x39mm. I'd rather have a .458 than a 7.62x39mm myself, but what about the others?
     
  11. squirrelsniper

    squirrelsniper G&G Newbie

    As far as the balance of power goes, I'd rather have one round from a 50BMG and get it done right from the start. Out of the others though, I'd take the 458; if that doesn't do it I'll bend over, place my head firmly between my legs and kiss my you-know-what goodbye.
     
  12. Mick

    Mick G&G Addict

    crazy man!

    I can't belive you blokes are actually allowed to go hunting with those guns you are talking about! It is something I can only dream about. Belt fed M60's indeed!
     
  13. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 Retired Moderator

    Maybe I'm on crack...

    Only reasons I'm not all for a .458 is that follow up shots would be slower in bolt action than some of the others available (this is from the guy who cranks his bolt actions as fast as most do their pumps), the gun would be too darn expensive, and it kicks so badly that it would be hard to practice with. Sure I could pull the trigger when I'm being charged, but getting the skill to do so might be a bit tough. Or maybe I'm wrong about all that.
    Here's a main question: Would a 12ga shotgun with rifled slugs be insufficient? If not, I'm set. If so, would sabots do the trick?

    Mick- I can't think of anywhere in the US where it's legal to hunt with a full automatic. Even owning one takes tons of invasive paperwork. 50 BMG, on the other hand, yes, some do. But I wouldn't lug one of those around in bear country. Most are single shot, and way too dangerous in overpenetration. Probably go through the whole forest. And if I miss, fat chance reloading.
     
    Last edited: Mar 16, 2002
  14. squirrelsniper

    squirrelsniper G&G Newbie

    A 12ga with slugs should get the job done. My vote would go to one with a fully rifled barrel and shooting the Winchester Supreme Partition saboted slugs though.
     
  15. sniper

    sniper G&G Newbie

    My uncle's family lived in a small town in a fairly remote area, my uncle Ken Hooker started guiding along with other members of his family when he was 14 years old he is now in his late sixties. One day while discussing grizzly hunting he said he has never seen a grizzly bear drop on the spot after being shot and I would estimate he has seen over 200 shot. All bears charged and it was a matter of how far they would get rather than just falling over dead. I have spent hundreds of hours walking through the forest hunting and the main thing I did not want to happen was end up in close quarters with a grizzly bear! I have ended up fairly close to a grizzly which let out a terrific roar when he picked up my sent, I simply backed off and left the area. I have known people that have shot grizzly with a 30-06 my friend was charged when he got to close to a grizzly feeding on a moose kill and the grizzly took 5 or six shots before finally dropping and dieing about 20 feet in front of him. I wouldn't even consider using a 12 gauge with sluggs to hunt grizzly mabe as a last ditch gun if you were charged at very close range while cruising timber or berry picking ect. Idealy you want plenty of distance between you and the bear when the shooting starts, I would recommend a 30-06 or 300 mag. Any time I have heard of a grizzly dropping fairly quickly after being shot it was after being hit in the spine just below the hump but I have heard of them dragging themselves 50 or 60 metre's with their front paws after their back was broken by a hump shot. These are the most dangerous animal in North America and should only be hunted after careful consideration of all the details. Good Luck!
     
  16. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 Retired Moderator

    Careful consideration...

    Careful consideration of all the details is why we ask questions like this and why this forum exists.

    I was only thinking of a 12ga as a last ditch gun as well, after using a 300 RUM for distance shots. My main concern was being in griz territory as it's not likely I'll ever be able to afford hunting it, or have the means to do anything with the body, which to me is an important part of hunting (though in all honesty I have yet to do it... I definitely plan to though, and am among experts in the field.)
     
  17. Jesse

    Jesse G&G Newbie Forum Contributor

    2,036
    3
    Thanks!

    Great Post! Thanks for the input!


    Jesse
     
  18. How about a revolver back-up?Maybe .454,.480 or something bigger.The only time I've been around wild bears,was in Oak creek canyon in Arizona,while fishing and they were black.
    And once here in Mo.It was one that had been relocated,and ended up on my in-laws property.
     
  19. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 Retired Moderator

    Skill...

    Maybe someday I'll get a bit more skilled with revolvers, but thus far my best shooting has been done with a 12ga pump shotgun. A Mossberg is light enough for me to carry comfortably on my back. If I was going to hike, I'd fashion a quick access attachment of some kind. Plus, it's much faster to reload the magazine. And while I have no ecperience in the matter, I can't forget what everyone tells me to do with the sites on a revolver...
     
  20. sniper

    sniper G&G Newbie

    If your just concerned about being attacked while hiking or fishing the best thing to remember is a set of keys or small bell ect. Metallic noise in the forest is totaly unnatural in the forest and the fact of the matter is that grizzly bears don't want anything to do with people and will leave the area if they hear you comming.