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Gun Powder Supplies Threatened

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by Ten Man, Jan 11, 2017.

  1. Ten Man

    Ten Man G&G Evangelist

    I never heard about this, and chances are, you didn't either. The BATFE arbitrarily changed the rules on nitro cellulose storage and distribution, and some are seeing it as a direct threat to the civilian gun powder supply chain. Some more of that "under the radar" gun control promised to us by the "resident."

    These articles were published in September of 2016.

  2. Kmcdowell

    Kmcdowell G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    Omaha NE
    Leave it to the government to restrict the components that are used to make the components to load ammunition. It's just like the recent restrictions on lead smelting plants. If lead becomes scarce, so do bullets. I wonder what they will do to restrict the future availability of brass for casings.

    The further up the ladder they find a way to disrupt supply, the worse the impact on available finished product. This issue with wetted nitrocellulose could more than double the cost of smokeless powder.

  3. ACfixer

    ACfixer Global Warming Enthusiast Forum Contributor

    At this point in time I'll have little sympathy for those that didn't stock up.
  4. Ten Man

    Ten Man G&G Evangelist


    It's not like there hasn't been ample warning. However, it is disturbing that these kinds of subterfuge get slipped through without any notice, and although it may not affect some of us, it will have a huge effect down the road on the majority of gun owners that keep very little on hand.

    I have managed to accrue a sufficient stock of everything I will need to shoot for a LONG time. I am NOT looking forward to our move later this year. :eek:
    animalspooker, Junction15 and ACfixer like this.
  5. Junction15

    Junction15 G&G Evangelist

    That is what I am always suspicious of. Current news appears to be outrageous and an insult to reasonable people sense of fairplay and well being, in order to divert attention. These folks have learned their propaganda lessons very well. While the country focuses on Russian hacking, Trump protesting, and all sorts of outrageous fake news, Bloomberg quietly slips his "assault team" in through the back door.
    It is a tactic that works again and again.
    Huey Rider and Ten Man like this.
  6. TXplt

    TXplt Gun Toting Boeing Driver Forum Contributor

    It was a notice of proposed interpretation which was quickly overturned a few months ago after outcry from what I remember if it was the same incident. Just a few more days ......

    I have enough stocks of defensive/hunting type ammo to last generations, and a couple of years or better of target practice ammo at current consumption rates, but I'd venture a guess that few of us have enough to last many many years IF we shoot as much as we like to. If you cut back on shooting, yes -- a really long time. But no one wants to do this so it is best to stay vigilant and fight any threats to the supply chain. Eventually, if you shoot as much as you like to and the statists get their way, you will run low. So don't let them get their way.
    Last edited: Jan 11, 2017
  7. ACfixer

    ACfixer Global Warming Enthusiast Forum Contributor

    I had to move it from one room to the other a couple months back for some remodeling... and it's in 50 and 30 cal ammo cans. I felt like i got hit by a bus the next day. :D
  8. Ten Man

    Ten Man G&G Evangelist

    Thanks for the update. I did not find anything countering the articles I posted.

    The price of FREEDOM is constant vigilance, constant willingness to fight back. There is no other price!
    Huey Rider, Junction15 and TXplt like this.
  9. rando

    rando G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    Yes sir ACfixer. I understand that feeling. I had to move mine several months ago and never realized how much all those ammo cans and spam cans weighed. Its a wonder my house don't sink into the ground
    Junction15, TXplt and ACfixer like this.
  10. Ten Man

    Ten Man G&G Evangelist

    O.K., fellers. You can stop bragging, now. LOL!!
  11. TACAV

    TACAV G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    The closing of the big lead smelters a couple years back had already been scheduled for closing under President Bush and as it regards the impact on ammo, it was expected to have and has had pretty much zero impact on the production of ammunition.

    Even the NRA as well as several of the largest domestic ammunition producers in the US have stated several times that the closing of the lead smelter(s) had nothing to do with ammunition production in the first place nor would it affect their future production.

    The type of lead that ammunition manufactures use to make bullets does not even come from lead smelters. "Ammo lead" is made from recycled lead from lead recycling plants that process it from other products.

    So no need to worry about that one at least. :)
  12. DaTeacha

    DaTeacha Things are not what they seem. Forum Contributor

    The news about powder constituents was in the gun mags a while back, GUNS, I think. Those magazine guys are pretty good at keeping up with the sneaky moves coming out of the pens of bureaucrats.
    Wicked109, Junction15 and TXplt like this.
  13. gandog56

    gandog56 G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    I did load up on powders just in case Shrillary got herself elected.
  14. variolamajor

    variolamajor G&G Evangelist

    Yup. Like this erroneous report which once again is obviously be done for click-bait value - the closing of the smelter some years ago also was incorrectly tied to ammo production for the same reason - to get folks jacked up over nothing. The closing of the smelter was part of an on-going plan to shift production of virgin lead to South America where environmental regulation is basically non-existent. The company that owned the smelter was already under fire as it's plants in South America are the sites of widespread environmental damage and as such there has been lawsuits filed in the past. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 90% of the lead used in bullet manufacturing comes from China and it is re-processed lead from old car batteries - not virgin lead as this plant made. Buy a new car battery and they keep your old one where it is shipped to China for re-processing and that lead then comes back to the US for re-use by industries.

    As to the powder kerfuffle. The BATFE does not unilaterally make changes on stuff like this. It per the law posts potential changes which are then subject to public review for 90 days. As happened here and in the case of the re-classifying the M-855 ammo a few years back - industry and groups then weigh in on the proposed changes and happened here - they are often discarded. The BATFE had issued an addendum to the June 2016 report BEFORE these conspiracy articles were even released stating that the proposed change would not happen per industry input requests. Yet as we see - they went ahead an ran this fear-mongering tripe anyways. So either they failed to verify their stories before putting them out {chuckle} - or as we've seen time and again...........these so-called "patriot news sites" are in truth click-bait sites who play fast and loose with the facts. o_O
  15. neophyte

    neophyte Wonderment :) Forum Contributor

    Ten Man: Sir, I followed your links


    ATF was recently asked about the status of nitrocellulose under the Federal explosives

    laws and regulations. “Nitrocellulose explo-

    sive” is on ATF’s List of Explosive Materials. ATF has determined that nitrocellulose containing greater than 12.6 percent nitrogen is a high explosive under 27 CFR, Part 555 (nitrocellulose containing 12.6 percent or less nitrogen is generally not an explosive material under
    Part 555). Therefore, it must be stored in a type 1 or type 2 magazine. We are aware that the U.S. Department of Transportation may assign a nonexplosive classification to nitrocellulose when it has been wetted with water or alcohol. This is based, in part, on the diminished likeli- hood of explosion in a transportation accident. Because the nitrocellulose retains its explosive characteristics when the water or alcohol is removed, the wetted nitro- cellulose remains a nitrocellulose explosive, subject to the licensing, safety and security requirements of the Federal explosives regulations. However, based upon the diminished likelihood of wetted nitrocellulose exploding, ATF will consider variance requests to store the wetted material under an alternative arrangement
  16. Big Dog

    Big Dog Retired IT Dinosaur Wrangler Forum Contributor

    I have stocked up on powder, primers, brass and bullets, beginning during the runup to "The Immaculate Deception of 2008", and adding to it ever since. I will never use it all, but I will have what I need if they stopped selling it all tomorrow.
    There are also ways to make your own powder, primers and bullets, with a little study and planning. Brass, that's harder.
    Reading the OP, it doesn't really look to be affecting regular small arms ammo much, with the legal exceptions. But it will definitely affect those who make paper cartridges for their cap and ball guns. Even there, many use cigarette rolling papers. But flash paper is better, less residue remaining, and better ignition.
    Hopefully, the incoming adminstration can reverse this legislation.
    Ten Man and TXplt like this.
  17. PaleHawkDown

    PaleHawkDown G&G Evangelist

    When I was a kid I went through an "I want to learn magic" phase. I bought a kit at the toy store that had flash paper in it. more than 20 years ago the stuff was sold in toy stores in science lab and magic kits, and now adults aren't allowed to purchase it?

    I wonder what magicians will do from now on? Or middle school science teachers?
    TXplt and neophyte like this.
  18. Nothing says you CAN'T make your own !............
    TXplt likes this.
  19. Rocky7

    Rocky7 G&G Evangelist

    Propellant (smokeless powder) is not an explosive. Black powder (gunpowder) is an explosive. Explosives detonate. Smokeless powder does not detonate.

    Mixing those two in order to promote further gun control by restricting ammunition and reloading supplies/activity has been part of IANSA's agenda for many years. IANSA used to have a "Model Law" posted online but took it down when too many people like me outed them. It is not touted as a U.N. initiative. Regardless how it is packaged, that turd came from IANSA.....another Soros-funded efforts. In anticipation that they would try to cover their tracks at some point, the IANSA model law was downloaded and is available here

    Check out the draconian laws on "recharging" ammunition. Pretty chilling.

    Anyway, here is a visual on why the propellant we all use to reload, e.g., H4350, RL19 etc. etc. is NOT an explosive. Do not be led down a garden path on this; the other side is trying to change the dictionary to achieve their ends; it is a known tactic of radicals. Read "Rules for Radicals", read some Chomsky. Know our opponent.

    There are now numerous YouTube videos which do not differentiate. Is this deliberate? I believe it is. Here is one that is truthful:

    Last edited: Jan 12, 2017
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  20. Ten Man

    Ten Man G&G Evangelist

    The designation of "Explosive" for Smokeless Powder, by the BATFE is just another of their overreaching tactics aimed at putting everyone under their control.

    They are a power-mad, rogue agency, bent of the destruction of liberty. Their whole existence is a HUGE affront to the citizens of this country.
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