Gun Show Report: Latest CCW Contemplations

Discussion in 'CCW' started by BattleRifleG3, Sep 21, 2002.

  1. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    I saw them all and held many of them. HKs, Beretta/Tauruses, Glocks, Sigs, Steyers, Paras, Llamas, Ballester Molinas, Astras, Delta Elites, and the wide variety of standard 1911s.

    I was amazed at how much larger some of these seemed in person than I had imagined, but even more so how different some were from others of similar specs, like how the Berettas seemed much larger than the 1911s. Also interesting how the shape affected my perception of carryability, where the 1911s seemed like one of the easiest to carry but the presumably smaller Sig 220 seemed bigger.

    What I took a leap of faith in considering now seems like a candidate. I got to handle a Steyer M40, and with a rubber grip, the polymer frame didn't seem to be a problem, though I'm still not so hot on it. The best feature was the low profile of the barrel over the grip, which would drastically reduce "bucking". Sure, the 4" barrel is less than I was insisting I wanted, but I'm sure you all thought I was kind of silly for not wanting a compact, and this seems like it's big enough but small enough for comfortable carry. Very light as well, though that's not always great. The wierdest thing about it was the sites, which were triangular. Maybe I could get used to them, but I may opt for more standard ones.

    I'm a little hesitant about Beretta/Taurus for a few reasons. One, they seemed much larger than I expected. Not bad, fine for shooting, but for carrying I was surprised to find them much larger than 1911s, at least in the specs that I noticed. Secondly, a friend of mine told me that if you pull the slide the right way from the front, the slide will come right of, ie pulling it off of a gun that's pointed at you, which he says is why police turned from Berettas to Glocks.

    Apparently Llamas aren't the most popular, but I found what appeared to be a full size model with a 13rd Hi-Cap, which they said may be interchangeable with Para Ordnance. It's called the Omni, and felt pretty nice and looked fine besides being substantially used. What is it that people don't like about Llamas? I'm sure it's not nothing, but the Omni was $290. For hi-cap, that's pretty nice.

    In the midst of all the new discoveries, the 1911s seemed like very good options, as they compensated in their thinness for their large size in other dimensions. I looked at some of the parts and understand a little better how they're put together. I saw replacement barrels in 5", 6", 7", and 16.25", which would provide for that inexplicable desire I have for longer barrels. Not incredibly sure it's a good choice for being taken down as I had hoped. Steyer seems to be much better for that.

    No, I didn't get any, for two reasons, such as being a poor college bum and 20 years old till May 2003.

    Right now I'm floating around between 1911 style (including hi-cap and variants), Beretta/Taurus (pending explanation of slide yoinking), and Steyer, with possible consideration of Browning Hi Power.

    Anyone use Steyer in 40?

    Or know about the slide yoinking of Berettas?

    Or why exactly everyone hates Llamas? On the old forum, people were singing its praises.
     
    Last edited: Sep 22, 2002
  2. PAPA G

    PAPA G G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    aaaaannnnnd the winner was????:fuss: what you get???:D
     

  3. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Sorry, accidentally posted while unfinished.
     
  4. oneastrix

    oneastrix G&G Newbie

    Get away from Astra and Llama
     
  5. NRAJOE

    NRAJOE YOU TALKIN' TO ME!? Forum Contributor

    I agree with 1*... no Astras or Llamas... at least not for selfdefense.
     
  6. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    In case it's not clear, my post was prematurely posted and most of it wasn't there before these responses.
     
  7. jarcp

    jarcp Guest

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    Every time I hear someone talk about the front side slide release from a beretta I have to laugh. Is it possible? Absolutly! I've seen it, and not just in movies. But do not let it take you away from buying it. The one man I've seen that can do it sucessfully was one of my instructors in MSG school. He was a weapons trainer and had been his whole career. You can try it at home but it's not as easy as it sounds. With the gun UNLOADED!!!!!!!!, have someone point it at you, now, with your right palm flat press it aganist the barrel, while at the same time you reach around with your left hand grasp the other guys grip on the gun and pull it toword you. You also need to put your thumb in between the hammer and firing pin. Now reach with your right thumb and press on the take down pin, as soon as it frees, you use the back of your index and middle fingers of your left hand to clear the take down pin from the gun. Then the right hand simply pulls forward and the slide will come off. sounds real easy right? It's not too hard in slow motion we all had to do it. BUT OH! by the way this whole operation needs to be completed before the guy holding the gun has a chance to respond.
     
  8. jerry

    jerry Since 03-15- 2002 Forum Contributor

    26,717
    25,717
    USA
    G3, Keep in mind, some of the "chunky" guns you mention are double stack, albeit neutered 10 round capacity political victims.

    IMOHO the 1911 has allways had good carry characteristics. The biggest debate seems to be the condition issues. Other wise, it's flat, 6~8 rounds are enough realistically, there are tons of configurations, everyone has parts and the knowledge to work on them, you have a choice of 9,40,or45.

    jarcp is correct, don't let the slide issue influence your decision making process. The odds of someone taking your gun from you and beating you with it are greater. If the encounter is that close, you better have good weapons retention skills any way.

    Field stripping a 1911 cumbersome and time consuming? I think not. I can have my slide off in under a second. Spring, bushing & barrel in another 20~30 seconds. I do have to hold my tongue just right on re-assembly to get the slide release pin through the barrel link and frame. No biggie.

    Whatever you get you have to be comfortable with and practice alot.
     
  9. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    I understand what makes grips wider, though the "chunky" guns seem to have a larger slide in proportion to the rest of the piece. Even the double stack 1911s seem easier to carry, probably due to all the rounded edges.
    Now that I have sources for some of the wild options I wanted on a 1911, I'm thinking of having a big souped up 1911 for the house and range, and a smaller 40 for CCW. Being larger than the 1911, I don't see that much advantage in a Beretta/Taurus 40, so I'm starting to think more compact, particularly Steyer M40, which seems very compact for a 4" barrel, and I really like the low barrel profile.

    I have a feeling these threads will be like a time capsule for me, as I look back and see how my opinions changed how much I learned over time.
     
  10. Logansdad

    Logansdad Guest

    Llama's are notorious for jamming...even with FMJs
     
  11. Dennis

    Dennis G&G Evangelist

    2,781
    807
    Texas
    Hey G
    I would suggest a 1911 to start with either a springfield ,kimber or colt product caspian are good as well. the auto ordinance arent very good quality IMHO
    the problems with LLAMA and Astra (Spanish) is that they have innconsistant Quality Control and their products are made with inferior Materials
    If you get a good llama thats great, and very unusual
    They dont have replacement parts easily avalible and they are just kinda "jickey"
    Allways needing attention
    a true 1911a1 derivative pistol allways seem to at least be salvageable reguardles of age or condition
    Reguardless of what we say YOU have to stake your life on Your decision of what handgun to use.
    Get the one YOU like and practice practice practice
    The pistol on the table is just a tool only when you hold it and operate it does it become a complete weapon system
    You know all this stuff.
    When the time comes go get you a pistol.