Guns in school? What were you thinking?

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by oneastrix, Sep 8, 2002.

  1. oneastrix

    oneastrix G&G Newbie

    I would like to respond to the post with the above title. In the post, Tommy said that cops should leave their guns in their car until needed. I'm going to assume for the sake of conversation that he meant when taking a call to a school. If that was really what I read, I would like to say that it was one of the most idiotic statements I have ever read on this forum!

    Most everybody on this forum knows that I am a cop. I don't hide it like some do. I'm d a m n proud of doing an honest job. Maybe I'm one of a few, but I think those on this forum who have communicated with me feel that I am on the up and up. I take pride in being young, but young with a stright moral compass.

    I have not mentioned it until now, but I , along with some other officers, have recently and temporarily been assigned to a local school to combat a severe gang problem. We are fully armed and dress and act like -Tac-OP's storm troopers. The school is in dire shape, and the law was called in to deal with it. We're doing just that, dealing with it. And we're d a m n effective at it! Those kids deserve a safe place to learn. The future of America is not the kids I am dealing with, it is the kids sitting in the classroom doing what their teacher tells them to. Those are the ones that I am there for.

    Cops should leave their guns in the car until needed. My God, I'm not even going to address that! Sorry Mr. Thug, I have to run out and get my piece before we fight!

    Tommy, sorry your deputy went crazy, but the story had nothing to do with a cop in a school what so ever.
    60% of crime in America is comitted by people under 17 years of age.
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2002
  2. PAPA G

    PAPA G G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    after re-reading the post seems Mr. Tommy has lumped the rotten apple in with the rest of the barrel. maybe his school district is full of angels, but others are not. most districts the officer is on duty 24hrs, ready to go at a moments notice. my only complaint is they need better training just talking to the public in general. have a cop neighbor. very ignorant tried to introduce myself as a new neighbor. and went out of his way ti ignore me. so i leave him to his own devices.
     

  3. Tommy, I echo One's sentiment that it was bad that ONE bad deputy in, or near your community, went sour.

    That happens from time to time.....just like good soldiers sometimes go sour.....or good bankers commit embezzellment.....just like good pilots unfortunately indulge in alcohol prior to flying.....just like some firemen have been busted for using drugs.....just like some teachers are accused of abuse....just like some clergy are arrested for child pornography or child abuse......just like the list goes on an on.

    That is human nature and the undesirables are weeded out....hopefully before something sad happens....but not always.

    NOW!!!!!!!!!.............in referrence to schools.

    If you are so d a m n blind to believe or think that, in the past twenty years or less (depending on locality and cultures) schools have not become friggin' war zones, then I feel sorely for your false sense of security of, and innocence for, our youths.

    Most, if not all, inner city schools have a large gang element. The same gang that will shoot a cop as quickly as a fellow classmate. And that same inner city element is quickly infiltrating rural community schools.

    Wake up, Tommy. If you were a cop and knew that that school element existed, would you walk into that theater of operations unarmed? It would be similar to asking a soldier to walk around Afghanistan unarmed....gimme me a freekin' break.

    You need to get off the Prozac and see the real world as it is.

    I realize this is rather strong, Tommy, but maybe it's time to verbally kick some butt.

    I am so dang tired of the younger set saying cops, and I was one, stereotype the do-gooding students in with the bad ones. How are we to know who is bad or good ..... wait for the gun to be pulled and then say, "Dang, wish I had brought my gun?" Ain't gonna happen dude!

    Have you so quickly forgotten Columbine? The schools kids in Arkansas shot by their own classmates? The kid here in Arizona who took a teacher and 7 year olds at gun point? And, that list, too, goes on and on.

    If you are so tired of students being stereotyped then I suggest you reconsider your stereotyping of cops, in general, and YES, that is just exactly what you did.

    I spent over 28 years in the department and never once, NEVER, had a claim of misconduct, discrimination, etc. That holds true with the majority......the very vast majority of law enforcement personnel.

    Now, son...and I say that looking down my nose because YOU gave me the right.....get a real life!
     
    Last edited: Sep 8, 2002
  4. oneastrix

    oneastrix G&G Newbie

    Thanks Dale, knew I could count on you. I work in the juvenile crimes bureau of my department. I love working with juveniles, good or bad. I sincerely care about them. However, I don't by into this new left wing, "Every kid has immeasurable (spelling?) worth." Horse pucky. We know it isn't true. That dog won't hunt, much less get off the front porch.

    Tommy, you sounded like a tru Al Gore fanatic in your post. No big deal. That's your right if you so believe. But, if you want to disarm a copper on a campus, I can assure myself the fact that you have never worked the beat that is the San Antonio, TX barrio my friend. That's my beat. I'm the token white guy down there, spanish speakin' and taco eatin'. I love the people and do my darndest to help them out. But to disarm me? I'm speachless..... (Well, not really!)
     
  5. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    I have to agree that gangs are very present in high schools, having graduated at the turn of the millenium. And zero tolerance is a bunch of BS. What it does is give administrators an excuse to expel kids they don't like while letting those with connections go scott free. I knew kids who packed in school (mostly after the fact). Meanwhile the unarmed cops in Columbine high school were not only physically unarmed, but emotionally unarmed, in that they were among the first to run (unless I'm gravely mistaken.) We need real law enforcement in the schools and it has to take place on every level.
     
  6. oneastrix

    oneastrix G&G Newbie

    Gangs are and have been initiating at the Jr High level. Asscoiation actually begins at the elementary level. It sickening. I have some web sites that can give you stats. If interested, PM me.
     
  7. Indy

    Indy G&G Newbie

    Gentlemen:
    I am not a police officer, but I would like to congratulate you on your dedication. Some us are not equipped to not react to some wise*** when they question our responses. I am to old to run and I don't like to have to repeat myself. Patience is an former trait. My wife is a teacher, and has taught for thirty-two years. She tells of horror stories every day. If I told "little Johnny" to jump he best be on the way up before I finish. That being said, I couldn't teach either.
    I am not sure how we as a society can change the direction some of our young seem to be heading. We have become so obsessed with worrying about who we offend, we have stopped using our common sense. All religious, ethnic, and racial groups must be folded in to one group within this country. It is just as wrong to harm a white man as it is a black man, just as wrong to harm a child as a policeman, and just as wrong to harm a hetrosexual as a homosexual. Breaking the law is just that, breaking the law.
    Again, you police officers need to be congratulated on your service to all of us. My(our) part is to abide by our laws, support your organizations, set an example, and elect people who have the mental capacity to assist you. However, if you ever need a backup, I can still hit that 12" disc at 375 yds 8 out of ten times with open sights.
    Indy
     
  8. Benny

    Benny Guest

    202
    0
    Guys,
    I'm with all of you. I went to a high school that had a visual gang presence. I even know a guy that had a Mac10 as cliche as it sounds. I try and look for the good in everyone, I'm sure we all do. BUT I'm not going to leave my gun in the car if I was a cop and think that the criminals will do the same. That's ludicrous! I'd want my piece on my side at all times. You can look for the good in people AND be cautious at the same time. Astrix, keep on doing a good job. I can tell that you are and you've got yourself some support next door here in New Mexico. If you're ever ridin through Socorro for some reason I'd be happy to show you some good places to eat. Take care guys and keep your eyes peeled and your powder dry.

    Benny
     
  9. tommy

    tommy G&G Enthusiast

    i have a lot of friends that are cops.i do agree that if you live in a school district that has gangs and alot of violence well then it is justified to have it on you. but that is not the case were i live.about a year ago i guy threatend to pop a cap in some kids .well i called the cops . guess what they never showed up. like you say they are there when you need them. right !! give me a freakin break. they belonged to the same police force that the other cop was on.then to top it off i get together with my ( cop friends ) and all they are talkin about is how many girls they picked up at the bar at closeing time. yea thats right they even have a number code for it so if they got a real drunk one that is ready for it he can call up his buddy on the police radio to meet him and join in on the fun.so how am i to have respect for a cop in my erea when i know all this is goin on. you tell me MR cop.like g3 sayed in the other post why don't they work in pairs. so one checkes the other.you *******s get all fired up when someone talks bad about a cop . put you're self in my spot what would you do. probably the same **** thing i'm doin. now there are some cops in the same police force that these guy are in and i respect them. cause i know them and know how they are. you unlike me don't know these cops but you are so **** quick to put me down for speaking out . i guess i am supose to just keep my mouth shut right. and when somthing happens then say something right . you guy's keep ragging out the goverment but you don't do anything to change it why? why sit there and b**** about it and not do anything. I HAVE RESPECT FOR GOOD COPS ALL OTHERS CAN KISS IT
     
  10. tommy

    tommy G&G Enthusiast

    hey astrix you getting this mad .what would happen if i saw you on the street and asked you about this subject. would you get all hot like you are now and call me an idiot.sounds to me like you have a short fuse sort of a bad thing to have for a cop huh!. you say you are a good cop then why not answer me like one .instead of calling me an idiot to me a good cop would have exsplained himself a little more nicer. you sound like one of those cops they say you are guilty until proven inocent. i don't agree with some of the other post on this sight but i don't go and get all bent out of shape when i read them. aren't cops supose to listen to both sides first before acting like you have.
     
  11. johno

    johno Guest

    181
    0
    I have to agree with both oneasrix and tommy in some respects. i agree with oneastrix that it is absurd to ask a cop go out on duty without his weapon. that's one of the major deterrents of cops, that they are armed. i don't know if i'd refuse, but i would not want to go to iraq or afghanistan without my M249. i have no problem with the cops having AR15's or shotguns, but would prefer they stayed in the car most of the time.

    on the other hand, i grew up in a los angeles suburb, not far from some of the most corrupt police forces in the nation. on top of that, my father is a lawyer and so i heard many stories about cops lying in court under oath and getting away with it. he had a case about a year ago where someone was harrasing his neighbors and sexually abusing his kids, but the police wouldn't do anything about it cause he was an ex-cop. in the bad towns where is used to live the cops commit all kinds of crimes, or in the better towns closer to my home, they'd just harrass innocent law abiding citizens cause they had nothing better to do. i liked to read the paper every day and never went more than a few months without hearing about some kind of police misconduct. i have known some good cops though. the leader of the college group at my church and his wife were both cops and i have a lot of respect for them. i do also have respect for most of th cops that i've met on this board like dale, oneastrix, and shaun. forgive me if i didnt' mention your name, those were the first that came to mind.
     
  12. tommy

    tommy G&G Enthusiast

    thanks for you'er kind worded response johno. i agree with you i to have respect for cops to but when you see and know that these things are goin on who do you trust? and people have a right to think this way cause stuff like this happens.hell they even tell anyone around here if a cop pulls you over on a dark street to just keep on driving till you get to a place that is populated and you feel safe to pull over . that came from the sherriff him self.we got some bad cops in my area but we also have some good one to. like they say the good always has to suffer for the bad. always
     
  13. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    For the record, I said police should be together, and I meant ARMED.
     
  14. Hey cop no gun, bad guy with gun. ???
     
  15. johno

    johno Guest

    181
    0
    like they say the good always has to suffer for the bad. always [/B][/QUOTE]


    i agree with that tommy. the good cops that are out there to make a difference and help society have to suffer for the bad cops just like all of us are law abiding gun owners and we have to suffer for all the nuts out there. even in the bible, being rightous is the hard way to go, but it pays off in the end.
     
  16. tommy

    tommy G&G Enthusiast

    thank you johno thank you
     
  17. oneastrix

    oneastrix G&G Newbie

    OK Tommy I'll humor you. If I were in your shoes, as you stated in your last post, I would learn to use the "shift" key. It's a neat little button and it helps you to capitlaize the first letter of the first word of every sentence. You'll know that you have created a new sentence when you place a "period (DOT)" at the end of a thought.

    As for cops, we would mostly all love to have a partner with us. Unfortunately, funding generally does not allow it. Of course, we can all ride together, two or three cops to a car, IF YOU ARE WILLING TO PAY FOR IT ON APRIL 15!

    As for calling you an idiot, I typed it because, well, I think you are an idiot.
     
  18. PAPA G

    PAPA G G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    which show to go ya, fruitloops and beer don't mix:p
     
  19. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    I hear ya, 1*, here's an idea: How about rotating assignments so that officers get a general idea of the big picture, both the region and the people they work with and protect. I would imagine it would help keep things professional as well as provide some checking between officers while still spreading them out? How does that sound to someone who has experience, compared to me, who just has ideas?

    Oh, and about the issue that touched off this whole discussion, isn't a cop flipping and using his gun to hurt people another situation where armed civilians should be able to take out a criminal? A cop turned criminal counts as a criminal if you ask me, and a citizen would have every right to use deadly force as he would on any criminal. Career criminal, cop turned criminal, they both end in criminal. Only difference is the advanced weaponry and tactics of cops, which is why private citizens need to practice with their guns, and another reason why restricting the weapons a civilian can own is wrong.
     
  20. oneastrix

    oneastrix G&G Newbie

    Very intelligent post BattleRifle. A citizen has the right to use that force needed to stop a peace officer who is using unjustified force against him/her. No doubt about it, it's written in the TX Penal Code, and protected by the 4th Ammend. Unlawful force and arrests are considered unlawful seizures...... Good post....