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Help with 98k id...!

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by LOCKnLOAD, Jun 4, 2002.

  1. I am posting some pics of my interesting 98k. It was made in 1945 and has some interesting differences. For example the butt has a hole in the lower portion, denoted by the circle. I assume that it was to replace the regiment disc that was usually drilled into the butt stock to help with the bolt disassembly.

    Anyway any help is appreciated. It is all numbers matching, including the stock, which has the serial numbers stamped on the inside of the stock under where the barrel rests.

    Thanks.
     

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  2. additional pic

    one more pic
     

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  3. another pic
     

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  4. final pic...

    thanks for the info in advance..

    :assult: :nod:
     

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  5. The arsenal code bcd was manufactured by Wilhelm-Gustloff-Werke, Weimar, Germany. I don't know about serial # production from that plant during that year of the war but by 45 there shouldn't have been too many. I have never seen one with the disc hole drilled into the butt stock.
     
  6. Mr (T)

    Mr (T) G&G Newbie

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    It's a very nice example of a Kriegsmodell K98k. I have a buttplate with the same hole in it; it is as you suspect...that it's the bolt disassembly hole. Someone said to me once that it's so the rifles can be secured together with a cable, but I don't know about that!

    Definitely a keeper, in my book. Those eagles are both scary and fascinating at the same time! Nice piece of WWII history.
     
  7. Wow, that is interesting about the manufacturing process that late in the war.


    What do you think it is worth?
     
  8. Mr (T)

    Mr (T) G&G Newbie

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    I would dare say that the price of this beauty shouldn't be any lower than $800. The eagles are still intact, Gustloff-Werke by that time was pretty bombed-out...so the production numbers were VERY LOW(adding to the collectibility), and best of all, it's a "bring back" with no duffel cut!
     
  9. Sarge

    Sarge G&G Enthusiast

    98k

    Your rifle "is Not" a Kriegsmodel, rather a standard late war rifle. A Kriegsmodel is designated by not having a bayonet mtg bar, under the barrel, on the end of the stock. Looks like there is something on the muzzel of the rifle, if so what?
    The Germans began to omit the disk in the stock - It was for a rifle rack locking rod in the barracks, and used to dissemble the firing pin - at some factories in late 44 and drill the hole in the butplate instead. Not all factories switched and not all stayed with the change, producing rifles both ways till wars end.
    Your rifle is also an east German reissue as denoted by the mark between the bcd & 45. This makes it a bit of an odd ball as most of those were mismatched reworks.
    Sarge
     
  10. Additional questions...

    Sarge and Mr. T:

    Thanks for your info on the 98k. But I am unsure which route to take...

    ..as for being a "rework", what actually was the classification of a rework at that time

    ...the cap at the muzzle end is a muzzle protector, I had an extra one from a M48, and it fit so I put it on to protect the crown. I wonder what kind of "oddball" it could be?

    I had never fired this gun and do not intend to..funny thing I omitted is that the stock has 11 notches cut in it just behind the bolt safety swivel. I guess this rifle took out somebody at one point in time.

    Here is the info that I know, the rifle was captured from the germans from the Turks, hence the rear butstock sling swivel, and the upper sling band was a Turk with a sling swivel. I just put back the german band to correct that Turk "addition".

    The rifle is really nice and besides my Turk M38's has the smoothest action of any mauser desgn that I have encountered.



    :fuss: :fuss:
     
  11. I would say that all matching numbers, intact eagles, and probably a low number produced due to allied bombing that late in the war would certainly increase the value. Sounds like you have a very interesting piece of history there regardless, the 11 notches adds quite a bit on interest.
     
  12. Postwar refurbed kar98k

    The bcd 45 rifle was probably never issued in WW II, but captured in store, and fitted with the underneath sling swivels post 1945; which country I cannot say, but definitely NOT Turkey.
    By 1945, any German troops in Romania and Bulgaria (closest to Turkey) had already been captured by the Russians.(Both Romania and Bulgaria capitulated to the Russians by late 1944).
    So that leaves East Germany or possibly Poland. The Czechs didn't use "underneath sling swivels".

    A very nice example, anyway. That muzzle protector threw me temporarily (thought it might have been a Swede M40, but they are 1939/40 dates)

    regards, Doc AV
     
  13. Mr (T)

    Mr (T) G&G Newbie

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    Sorry, I didn't mean to disseminate bad information regarding "Kriegsmodells!" It's got more history than I thought it would have, and you guys are definitely smarter!

    How did it get to the middle east with the eagles still intact?
     
  14. Well...the rush of info is enlightening...however I would challenge the claim the the 45 series of rifles was unissued at that time.

    I took a very complete history of Hitler's germany in college, and remember everything from his early "killing squad Waffen SS" dudes to the late war efforts to safe the "cause".

    Because of the late war efforts to produce arms and basically all weaponsI would think that the rifles produced would be immediately shipped to the front line for service, not stored at any point...unlass immediately captured by some other army.

    Is there factual documentation to any of the possible scenerios available? My rifle is in great condition..but has been used in battle somewhere...where that is I really wonder...

    LockNLoad


    :assult: :nod:
     
  15. Delivery of K98k to troops

    In a copy of Phil B. Sharpe's Book on Rifles (1946 or 1947), he has some photos of German depots full to the roof with NEW kar98ks, which he visited soon after May,45 in his role as an Ordnance Intelligence officer, USA.
    In another book (R.Law, Backbone of the Wehrmacht) the author
    mentions that factory new kar98ks were delivered direct to regional depots, where they were then distributed to army units in those areas. The only rifles delivered"direct" were the VG type last ditch models for the Volksturm.
    Even in the chaos of 1945 Germany, order ruled in the Wehrmacht supply line! Of course, who knows what actually happened in those last two or three chaotic months of the war?

    regards, Doc AV