Hey, Obama, If The Shoe Fits...

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by Cyrano, May 16, 2008.

  1. Cyrano

    Cyrano Resident Curmudgeon Forum Contributor

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    Obama is upset by the comments George W. made to the Israeli Knesset (Israel's Parliament) yesterday. Bush was there to commemmorate the establishment of Israel 60 years ago. Please recall that Harry Truman and the United States were the first to recognize Israel as a nation. We have historic ties with them. They are an ally.

    Bush said: "Some seem to believe that we should negotiate with the terrorists and radicals, as if some ingenious argument will persuade them they have been wrong all along.

    "We have heard this foolish delusion before. As Nazi tanks crossed into Poland in 1939, an American senator declared: 'Lord, if I could only have talked to Hitler, all this might have been avoided.' We have an obligation to call this what it is — the false comfort of appeasement, which has been repeatedly discredited by history."

    Funny thing. Bush was referring to the problems Israels is having with Hamas, Hizbollah and Fatah in the territories Israel turned over to the Palestinians. But the Obfuscator seems to think Bush is talking about him!

    Obama said to the American press, "It is sad that President Bush would use a speech to the Knesset on the 60th anniversary of Israel's independence to launch a false political attack. George Bush knows that I have never supported engagement with terrorists, and the president's extraordinary politicization of foreign policy and the politics of fear do nothing to secure the American people or our stalwart ally Israel."

    Hey, Obama, Bush wasn't talking about you. He was making the point that appeasement and paying danegeld never work. He wasn't talking about you. But if you want to claim that he was, that's okay with me. You are already on record as saying you'll treat with rogue nations and terrorists, and will pull out of Iraq without regard for the consequences. If the shoe fits, Obama, go ahead and wear it. It's just one more reason for thinking people NOT to vote for you.
     
  2. Of course he was taking a swipe at Obama. It's silly to pretend otherwise, just because he didn't mention him by name. Even if Bush weren't bright enough to know that what he said would immediately be interpreted as an attack, his speech writers certainly are...

    I'm amazed at the idea we can resolve problems without talking to the people we're having the problems with. Refusing to talk to those we disagree with is substituting posturing for action, which is just as bad as substituting words for action.

    And Obama has never said we should substitute words for actions, or that we should believe everything we're told; he's just saying we need to keep the channels of communication open with everyone, friend or foe. On that particular point, I agree with him.

    "Hold your friends close, and your enemies closer."
     

  3. KGunner

    KGunner G&G Evangelist

    Some of these people can't be haggled with. They want the complete and total destruction of America and its allies, and that is no secret, they say it quite regularly. There is only one thing they can understand, and that is force, and lots of it.
     
  4. smokey

    smokey Guest

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    For all the lefties out there!!! When yunz were in grade school,if a bully came up to you to get your lunch money,did yunz try to talk him out of taking it before yunz gave it up? Or did yunz kick his a$$ and keep your lunch money. :hitwithrock: The same thing happens in the world today,just on a bigger scale :hitwithrock:
     
  5. Seabeescotty

    Seabeescotty G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    Smokey, Bullies never had it easy with me. I went home bloodied up a few times, but refused to give in. Then I learned something about bullies. If they believe you're crazy, they leave you alone. I started going into a noisy, yelling, semi-tasmanian devil routine, and theyt started leaving me alone. Maybe, if the extremists realized that we have a crazy man with his finger on the red button, they'd back off, too. It worked for Reagan, when dealing with the soviets.
     
  6. publius

    publius Guest

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    Appeasement got us hit on 9/11. Barracks and Embassy in Africa. First WTC bombing. Retreat from Somalia. Bombing of the Cole. Refusal to accept bin Laden from the Sudan. Bin Laden has said that when Klinton and the U.S. retreated from Somalia, they started planning the 9/11 attack, they knew then that the U.S. wouldn't accept casualties he said. Historically, the communists probed for and exploited the weakness in their enemy, the only thing they would respect and the only thing that would dissuade them was a show of confrontational force pushing back at them. In this the islamofascists share common dimension. The Islamists have sworn to own the world by 2030 and nearly a quarter of europe has succumbed to the unslaught. France is now 40% muslim. England has made so many concessions to muslims and been so islamified that people are leaving there in droves. There has been so much islamification that the archbishop of Canterbury recently started calling for the acceptance of Sharia law. A couple of years ago when the muslims were rioting across England and France we learned that the Mullah's had been instructing muslims to live off welfare, since to work a job would be assisting the infidel's economic system. From the Philippines to Bali, to Europe, Africa and the Middle East, muslims are on the march. The majority of muslims don't have the wherewithal nor the inclination to wage this war, it's the extremists who are carrying the fight, but studies and experts say that 75% of the muslim community support the extremists to one degree or another. Mostly because it's in the teachings of their Quran/Koran.

    http://www.australian-news.net/Muslims/Sharia_law_UK.htm
     
    Last edited: May 16, 2008
  7. smokey

    smokey Guest

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    :thinking::biggthumpup: hey whatever works LOL I have never talked my way out of a fight
     
  8. Seven©

    Seven© G&G Evangelist

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    Troy, you truly are the resident liberal.
     
  9. patrick70

    patrick70 G&G Addict

    That's a very good post,I read about the problems in England from a local newspaper last year.There's a real threat coming, but some people are so blinded by political correctness they'll never realize it until it's too late.The same thing is happening right here.
     
  10. publius

    publius Guest

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    patrick70:

    Pick up a copy of Mark Steyn's book: American Alone

    Good documentation on Eurabia and what's been going on around the world. The United States and New Zealand are the only countries in the G-8 with fertility (birth) rates of at least 2. U.S. 2.11, NZ 2.01. 2.0 of course being the minimum birth replacement rate to hold popuation. Canada is 1.48. UK is 1.6. The rates across europe are below 2.0 and some way below that figure, EXCEPT for the muslim populations in those countries where the fertility rates are 4-6 per married couple.

    Anyway it's a great read, and loads of information.
     
  11. patrick70

    patrick70 G&G Addict

    Thanks publius,I'll do that.
     
  12. Coeloptera

    Coeloptera G&G Newbie

    Hey, you guys hear about that new Bin Laden tape?

    Yeah, Bush's cowboy approach really showed him, didn't it?

    Maybe if we had talked to the people in the country he fled to we'd have him now.

    But I forgot, talking is for suckers.

    Oh, and appeasement didn't get us 9/11. Backing him in the first place in the 1980s against the Soviets did. We made this monster and he turned on us.

    An eye for an eye leaves everyone blind. There are appropriate times for force and it's not "anytime".

    I also happen to think that using a speech to the Knesset to take a cheap political shot is repugnant. There's supposed to be an unwritten rule about not badmouthing anyone in an opposing political party when you're addressing world leaders when you're out of the country. So even if he didn't mean Obama, what he said was still disgusting. I can't believe people are still defending anything Bush does at this point.

    Oh, and the guy who talked about appeasing the Nazis? Republican.

    Yeah, go check.

    Like I said before, the hate is getting so think, I think I'm half planning to vote for him out of sheer spite at this point. I have reasons not to vote for McCain, but they're all purely policy. I have nothing against the man personally. This sort of stuff is ugly and in my opinion, beneath us as a nation.

    - Coeloptera
     
  13. Cyrano

    Cyrano Resident Curmudgeon Forum Contributor

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    Part of the problem I have with the Democrats is that none of the modern Democrats understand that Claudius Appius the Blind was absolutely right when he said, "If thou wouldst have peace, be thou then prepared for war." Or, to put it colloquially, "If you're ready to fight, and they know you're ready to fight, you won't have to." We are not dealing with nation-states here. We are dealing with terrorists. The only thing those swine understand is strength. The moment you show weakness, be it as a person or as a nation, they're on you like a lion on a crippled gazelle.

    It can be seriously argued that terrorists are the modern-day equivalent of the buccaneers of the 17th Century and early 18th Century. They obey no laws but their own; they have no allegiance to nationality but give allegiance to a charismatic leader; and there are places that will trade with them and allow them the free use of their 'ports.' It's time to apply the ancient formula that was applied to pirates: "To be declared the enemies-general of humankind; to be cast out from all protection of law; to be dealt with as wolves are."

    Do it once, and no terrorist would try us again. But it does have to be done that once. No trials of captured terrorists; no media play; no involvement by the UN or the World Court. Just catch them and execute them, in a way that insures they never go to Paradise and get their virgins (or their grapes, depending on how you read the Koran). Even fanatics think twice if they don't believe they're going to get their moment of glory and the pleasures of the afterlife.
     
  14. TexasT

    TexasT Devil's Advocate >:) Forum Contributor Forum Contributor

    That's right Cyrano. You can't really wage a war on terrorism by randomly destroying nations that they may or may not live in. I mean heck, they live in America too but we can't blow up our own nation. I say you catch them one by one and burn them all alive. This is not 1825, there's more sophisticated ways of getting rid of terrorists.
     
  15. patrick70

    patrick70 G&G Addict

    Do you really believe if we had talked to the people in the country he fled to that they would give him up.There's a 25 million reward on that guy's head and nobodys talking.

    If you want to vote for obama out of spite, go right ahead.You talk like he's some kind of an angel.Why should he be treated any different from any other canidate.

    what, you can knock Bush ,but we can't knock obama
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2008
  16. I am just one person I dont know the best way to defeat the terrorist. You could arrest and punish or kill them all but they arent a country they have no boarders and they dont wear uniforms. That makes the first option kind of impossible since its hard to fight what you cant always find. The second option I can think of is to win the hearts and minds of the people people where the hide and consider home. That way people will stop joining their ranks and thier hiding places and funding will dry up. To d that is also kind of a pipe dream since much of the middle east has considered the west to be thier enemy, evil, infidels or any combo of the 3. So reversing about 1400 or more years of society and religious tensions is way beyond my understanding to comprehend a solution for if there is one to be found. From my point of view the best bet is inbetween fighting and societal engineering. Go in and and kick the crap out of the terrorists where ever they are found and do what we can to win over the hearts and minds the people around them to respect and come over to our way of thinking.
     
  17. publius

    publius Guest

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    Coelopterea,

    When we supported the mushadeen in Afghanistan in their war against the invading communist Soviet Union, we didn't know bin Laden from Adam. We could never know then that he would be a problem 25 years later. So it wouldn't have been a consideration. The only thing Jimmah Karter did worthwhile in his whole pathetic presidency was to boycott the Moscow olympics in protest. However, when Bill Klinton went into Bosnia on the side of the Muslims, against the Christians, bin Laden was operating there with the muslim forces. And we knew by that time that bin Laden was a terrorist and had been involved in terrorist activities against the United States.
     
  18. Hey peblius Im not trying to be rude just currious. Do you call Bill Clinton, Bill Klinton as some kind of political statement or do this as a accidental spelling error?
     
  19. publius

    publius Guest

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    Quote:
    Coeloptera:

    "I also happen to think that using a speech to the Knesset to take a cheap political shot is repugnant. There's supposed to be an unwritten rule about not badmouthing anyone in an opposing political party when you're addressing world leaders when you're out of the country. So even if he didn't mean Obama, what he said was still disgusting. I can't believe people are still defending anything Bush does at this point."


    Coeloptera,

    Bill Klinton, Al GorK, and Jimmah Kartah all went to foreign countries to bash President Bush and U.S. foreign policy. Other democ-rats went on unauthorized "missions" to foreign countries with the express purpose of undermining American Foreign Policy. There is also an unwritten policy, a gentleman's agreement, that has come down through the years that says that former Presidents will not bash or interfere with their successors. Republican Presidents, such as George Bush, Sr. have honored that protocol, but both Klinton and Karter have violated it numerous times.

    The left seems to be very sensitive in the area's of national security and appeasement, I wonder why. I don't think Bush even mentioned Neville Chamberlain.
     
    Last edited: May 17, 2008
  20. I love history it was my favorite subject in school. I understand that we fought the North Vietnamese and the korean war as well to undermind and combat the Russians and the spread of communist governments. But I dont understand the K in clinton. Is the miss spelling just a form of a insult or does the K have a meaning I dont see beyond that? I do have to salute you for being a vet I have only the upmost respect for the military and those who serve and have served their country. I am going to enlist in the military in a few weeks. I am unsure which branch but im pretty sure it will be the Army or the Marines. If you dont mind my asking what branch did you serve in?