I Think This Is A Bad Idea - What Do You Think?

Discussion in 'Political/Religious Topics' started by Ten Man, Oct 29, 2020.

  1. Ten Man

    Ten Man G&G Evangelist

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  2. runfiverun

    runfiverun G&G Evangelist

    well good.
    they been f-N the area to the south and north east of me up but good the last few years, and are now starting on the canyon to the east of me to make sure we never see a deer again [in a place we can shoot it] around here.
     
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  3. rando

    rando G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

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    I myself dont like to see pristine forests destroyed. Trees take hundreds of years to reach maturity but only minutes to kill them. I had several friends back right out of high school that did tree planting. After an area was cleared of trees and usually thousands of acres then they replanted. They worked for a company that got the contracts and traveled all over the NW mostly. Living in campers and tents on site till jobs completed. Each man would plant a couple thousand trees a day. These trees will take forever to reach the size of the ones removed. Here is a link on clear cutting forests and the impacts. You end up with erosion and mud slides. Ugliness also and taking away natural habitat.



    https://www.thoughtco.com/clearcutting-the-debate-over-clearcutting-1343027
     
  4. Jaison

    Jaison G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    The George Washington National Forest in Virginia stopped/severely limited clear cutting and harvesting decades ago. As a result, wildlife numbers have plummeted.

    Can't speak for the Alaska situation, but we can certainly use more clearings around here. Deer, rabbits, grouse, turkey, ad nauseum all depend on diversity of environment.
     
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  5. rando

    rando G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

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    Jaison , many years ago I used to grouse and rabbit hunt in an area of the Appalachian mountains in a state forest. It was near Frederick and also Camp David. The grouse, pheasants, turkey and rabbits dwindled. The DNR finally dropped acres of trees in many areas and left them laying for habitat. Several years later there were finally many grouse and turkey there. I would see logging there in certain places. At the camp ground at base of mountain they had a mill to process logs into wood and lumber. They would do it spread out though and not destroy a whole area. They had a good management plan there.
     
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  6. Big Dog

    Big Dog Retired IT Dinosaur Wrangler Forum Contributor

    The question is, what type trees are there? Old growth, slow growing trees that cannot be easily replaced? Or faster growing types that can be used as a "sustainable renewable crop"?
    Here in Florida the logging industry uses fast growing pines, for the pulpwood, plywood and paper industries. The culled trees are replaced by new young trees that mature in about fifteen years or less. Deer and other animals like the cut areas, as the tender young vegetation (aside from the trees) grow back in.
    But if the Alaska trees are huge old-growth types, it could be a disaster losing them. It would take a century or more to replace them. We need more info.
     
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  7. Jack Ryan

    Jack Ryan G&G Evangelist

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    Thing I don't like about logging public ground is the public/tax payer ALWAYS GETS SCREWED.

    They don't even come close to treating the ground even as well as they would if it were a DOGS private property. They take walnuts, oaks, hundred year old pine and hickory. Then they go through and sprinkle the cheapest, fastest growing, useless pine tree seedlings and call that even. They doze the ground and tear it up so every inch of top soil is in the valley next year and down in delta the year after that.

    On top of that, we have forest ground they called rehabbed that all those trash trees they seeded in it are mature. Funny thing, I NEVER SEE the logging industry crying about wanting to harvest any of those trees they traded me/the taxpayer for my walnuts, oaks and cypress.
     
    Last edited: Oct 30, 2020
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  8. Ranger4

    Ranger4 G&G Evangelist

    Everything is a trade off. Wildfire kills the canopy and lets sun reach the ground, grasses and forage can then thrive. Power lines and pipe lines through dense forest suddenly create food plots long and thin, and provide food for a variety of species. Even newly cut roadways provide a wildlife benefit. All of those have downsides as well.

    Much of my life we talk about edge as being the most important portion of the forest for most wildlife, grass, forage, shrubs of sorts and other plants thrived along the boundary of thick forests.
    For many years farmers were encouraged to leave all the corners of the toiled ground for wildlife and it made sense. Then there was the big movement to cut trees nearly through the trunk about 4 foot tall and let them fall over leaving a big cover for animals including deer to bed under.

    Now they even talk about the "feathered" edge to improve wildlife habitat. https://www.bonecollector.com/edge-feathering-101-│-increase-habitat-whitetail-turkey-upland-birds/

    FWIW
     
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  9. mitchr

    mitchr G&G Evangelist

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    I don't like the clear cutting in this area, but it's usually for someone to build a home & I figure they have as much right to owning a home as I do. IMO, it's wrong to clear cut & just leave the mud & debris behind.
     
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  10. TXplt

    TXplt Gun Toting Boeing Driver Forum Contributor

    Can't say. Depends entirely on how it's done.

    I love my pristine view from the family farm and cabin. I'd not want that marred.

    BUT without roads to access it it'd be a long walk in.

    AND the decision made by the park to let the long meadow grow long was not a good one. It's being taken over by prima flora rose which is nasty stuff. It'd also be nice if they'd fell some trees down towards the lake (I'd LOVE a logging company to come in and harvest it) because over the years the trees (and I) have grown taller (and fatter). So the view is disappearing. It'll probably be overgrown when I die.

    The hilltop was barren when my grandfather moved in. We planted pretty much every tree up there. Some were successes; some were complete failures and we felled them. It looks nice, but sometimes it's work to make things look nice.

    So sometimes 'pristine' nature isn't so pristine and gets junky on her own. A little trimming can make things nicer for everyone and everything.

    So it just depends.
     
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  11. Ten Man

    Ten Man G&G Evangelist

    Therein lies the rub!

    IF it is done with good forestry management principles, that have stood the test of time for 100 years, then I say go for it. If the gubmint just allows the top bidders to do whatever they want, it has the potential to destroy more than can be repaired, replaced, or revived.
     
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  12. Ranger4

    Ranger4 G&G Evangelist

    This last 3 days I have been cutting a big trees, huge limbs down by the ice storm. Luckily none hit the house, but three could have down major damage to my house. I have trees down on my shop and one down on a shed, and dozens on my fences, no big deal, but I will have to cut them off and maybe have minor damage.

    The bigger threat is fire, if you have trees anywhere close to your home and a wild fire comes, they will set your roof on fire unless it is metal. Most fires come from the south in my area in the winter months when grass and brush is dead and fire moves quickly. So, it is prudent to keep trees a good distance from your home and grass and shrubs cut short.

    So, if you put your home in the middle of the woods, just something you need to consider.
     
  13. runfiverun

    runfiverun G&G Evangelist

    aaaahhh you mean like just creating a 5-7 acre parking lot in the middle of all the trees they don't want pushed 20' high.
    or leaving half the small trees laying on the side of the mountain so the snow pushes them all down to the bottom of the drainage.

    then coming in and planting trees 2' apart so when they are 4-6' tall nothing can walk in between them.
     
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  14. Ten Man

    Ten Man G&G Evangelist

    The dummies in commiefornia NEVER seem to learn that lesson. And they PAY DEARLY for it, every Summer.
     
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  15. mitchr

    mitchr G&G Evangelist

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    That was a major concern for us during the drought we had 2011. Fires were happening all around us. I have uncut woods on 2 sides, within 10' on one side & 40' in the back. We didn't even like leaving the house for groceries. To make it worse, we have no fire department & rely on the VFD of a neighboring settlement.

    I had large water sprinklers set on the roof, hooked up & ready to go, in a feeble attempt to save it, but not really trusting that it would do any good. Better believe, we breathed a sigh of relief when we started getting some rain!
     
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  16. chesterwin

    chesterwin G&G Evangelist

    Good forest management has advantages. I wish I'd bought as much acreage as I could have managed back in my twenties and planted it all with Black Walnut. Most tree acreage around here goes to pine once the natural growth is cut, (clearcut). Selective thinning and allowing natural regrowth is also a good practice. Just an opinion.
     
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  17. TXplt

    TXplt Gun Toting Boeing Driver Forum Contributor

    I agree with the managed forest outlook.

    But with the Black Walnut, not so much.

    My late grandfather and his good friend (and to some extent with my Mom's input) decided as part of the farm planting to plant several black walnut trees. They did grow up quite well (but I don't know how much cash they might bring in if felled which won't be anytime soon.....probably some but not enough to really matter compared to having trees there). It was one of those city guys move out to the farm get rich someday schemes (which never really work but do provide some humor for follow on generations), and always a part of mom's (rest her soul) treasure (even if the treasure chest wasn't so big in reality).

    BUT

    They drop their walnuts (which is kinda OK but they do get everywhere). One time she tried peeling a bunch; her hands were black for weeks.

    The real kicker is their root system can grow horizontally. If it's a forest that's probably not a big deal. But if you want to cut the area around it it is. Those roots have been the bane of ALL of our existence when trying to cut the area which is a short bit from the car barn and quite widespread. If you like riding mowers, zero turns, or tractors over washboards I guess it's OK but between getting beat up on the seat mowing and getting blade strikes that area sucks. I've lost several guide wheel pins from the beating and loosening of parts (fortunately haven't mowed over a wheel--yet). We kinda all cut around it--avoiding it-- until it just gets so long and someone finally gives in to cut the area.

    So while they're pretty trees I'm not a huge fan.
     
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  18. chesterwin

    chesterwin G&G Evangelist

    Check out the board/ft. price of Black Walnut. https://ghentwoodproducts.com/price-list-rough-cut-boards-kiln-dried/
     
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  19. BigEd63

    BigEd63 G&G Evangelist

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    When the back acres that used to be pasture land started to work it's way back into forest land I went in and cut out several hundred cedar trees of various sizes.
    My intention being to give the young hardwoods room to grow without getting choked out by the cedars. And


    The biggest problem I see with USFS policy on this is like any other bureaucracy is it tends to be cookie cutter in application that may or may not work everywhere.
     
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  20. mitchr

    mitchr G&G Evangelist

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    Sadly, "loggers" won't be interested in forest management. All they know is, how many $$ in the shortest time. You end up with a lot of stumps & tree litter lying around.:(
     
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