ideal set up for SHTF/TEOTWAWKI

Discussion in 'Survival Discussions' started by CAV88, Sep 1, 2010.

  1. CAV88

    CAV88 G&G Newbie

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    hey guys im bored so i was just thinkin with what guns i would like to outfit the family of 5

    I figure 1 dpms 308 for longer ranges

    2 maybe 3 AK's and maybe a saiga shotgunner or my 300 win mag for real long distances or real short distances

    each person be equipped with a large sidearm (1911 MP 45 FNP 45 Model 686 about that size on the hip)

    then a very small concealable weapon located on the ankle or just another spot but very concealed


    so i would go like this

    1. DPMS FNP 45 and my glock 36 for conceal ME
    2. AK-47 model 686 and a airweight .38 Dad
    3. AK-47 1911 and XD 9mm compact Bro
    4. 30/30 taurus 9mm1 and ruger LCP Ma
    5. 30/30 bersa 380 walter .22 Sis

    these are based off of what i already own with a couple of exceptions (fnp, airweight and ruger LCP) what would be your ideal set up for YOUR family please give me any suggestions or recommendations on weapons and or gear that would be helpful thanks in advance and have some fun!
     
  2. larmus

    larmus G&G Enthusiast

    being as my "arsenal" is small compared to everyone elses im set up differently, but if i had the weapons and nothing fancy just regular old rifles and handguns then i would do as follows:

    -.308 for distance (cetme or g3 nock off or even fn-fal)
    -7.62x39 or .223 for intermediate to close shots (AK, SKS, AR varients)
    -12g or pistol cartridge carbines for close shots (rem 870's, mossy 8shot's, saiga12g, any pistol carbine that will take a 33rnd pistol mag. like the keltec-sub-2000 in glock for the 33 rnd mags of the glock 17)
    -any high cap .45 or high cap 9mm (if people shooting PCC's then they get the corisponding pistol that takes same mags)
    -backup would be snubnosed .357/.38 revolvers (they dont jam)

    1 person with g3 .308
    2 people with AK's, SKS's or M4 varient
    2 people with 12g shotgun or PCC's
    Everyone would be equiped with the same handguns so that mags can be interchanged (except for those with PCC's.) And all backup weapons would be the same.

    but thats my thoughts behind it...
     

  3. Cyrano

    Cyrano Resident Curmudgeon Forum Contributor

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    The only suggestion I would offer is when it comes to the pistols, standardize on one caliber only, with the possible exception of Little Sister and her .22. (Question: how little IS Sis? Can she handle a 9mm handgun?)

    Ideally, if you can afford it standardize on one pistol, too. Magazine interchangeability is a very desireable thing in firearms. However, ammunition standardization, especially in a post-SHTF situation, is critical.If you are in a position to buy more firearms, including swapping or trading, this is what I would set up were I in your shoes.

    1. DPMS in .308, Glock 17 and Bersa Thunder 9mm for concealed carry - You
    2. AK-47, Glock 17 and Bersa Thunder 9mm for concealed carry - Dad
    3. AK-47, XD 9mm compact and Bersa Thunder 9mm for CC - Bro
    4. AK-47, Taurus 9mm and Bersa Thunder 9mm for CC -Ma
    5. AK-47, Bersa Thunder 9mm and Walther .22 - Sis

    You might want to consider replacing Ma's AK with a Saiga 12 gauge and at least four 10 round magazines, if you want a shotgun in the mix.

    But you seriously need to standardize both your ammunition and your guns, which is why I have so many 9mm Bersas in the mix. The only reason Ma gets to keep her Taurus is that you already own it and it's chambered for 9mm Luger. A 9mm Luger round doesn't kick that much more than a .380 ACP, which is why Sis steps up to one.

    As you originally had your load-out, you had 10 different calibers of ammunition to contend with. My revision reduces that to 4: .308 Win/7.62 NATO, 9mm Luger, 7.62x39 ComBloc and .22 LR. Further, you will notice my ammo is all 'universal caliber,' stuff you can find in any gun shop. Yours had at least 2 calibers and possibly 3 you can't guarantee you'll be able to get later.

    Standardization is something you really need to give thought to before the SHTF. A gun without bullets is a paperweight, not a weapon. You must look ahead to solving the problem of resupplying ammo after a disaster happens; hence the differences in my list.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2010
  4. Basic five here: .22 Pistol, .45 pistol, 10 round .308 rifle, .30 round 223 rifle, and shotgun.
     
  5. CAV88

    CAV88 G&G Newbie

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    and this right here is why i love this site yes i think it would be very wise to standardize on handguns, i would rather have maybe the 3 males go with 45acp and have my mom and sis standard at 9mm but keep the same rifles. thanks a lot cyrano that's an awesome post with some very good information and suggestions - ones im going to follow lol
     
  6. JC-75

    JC-75 G&G Newbie

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    Well i'm gonna go with a list of what i have now and some i plan on getting in the next years time.

    What i have. Saiga 223 with AR Adaptor, Romanian PSL, Marlin 795 .22 which would be a small game gun.

    What i plan on getting Saiga 12 and a Pump shotgun of some kind not sure which one yet. RPK with a 75 round drum with the sole intention of being a SHTF gun. Looking at a Remington 700 308 for long ranges as well. Pistols im not sure on i have never been much of a pistol person though.
     
  7. well, i do agree with sticking with only a few, common rounds, however, i don't have that option right now. i will however, start working on that. in a 5 person team, I would ideally like to have...
    1-precision fire rifle, .308, 30-30, .30-06, whichever. with a reliable handgun. ghuillie suit
    2-AR with an ACOG and the same reliable handgun ghuillie suit and spotting scope
    3 and 4-AR with EOtechs and same reliable pistol
    5-AR with EOtechs and a nice pistol grip shotgun

    that way you have a self sufficient sniper team and a 3 man assault team and at least one guy with a shotgun for breaching and room clearing. I'm kind of partial to the m16 variants as you can tell. 3 different types of rounds and a fairly light combat load.
     
  8. gunadvocate

    gunadvocate G&G Newbie

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    1 AK47 with a high cap nine
    1 ACR with an eotech and high cap nine (suppressed)
    1 AR with an ACOG and a .357
    1 m14 with a leopold sight and a .45
    1 M1 Garand for hunting/heavy duty penetration with a 1911

    ^ I feel like this covers the grounds on most distances, situations, and needs whether it be hunting, fighting, or defending the group. Needless to say the logistics due to the diversity of the calibers would prove challenging...
     
  9. Id say for 5 people you only need 12 gauges for all for all throw in two 30 caliber rifles of your choice (my vote is .308 hunting style guns with scopes) and everyone gets a 357 revolver. Only have to keep 3 types of ammo handy
     
  10. Martin Rage

    Martin Rage G&G Enthusiast

    I see this a lot and it always bugs me and would cause some real problems for people. I am talking about people running battery operated scopes, lasers, sights, especially on systems like AR's where they usually replace iron sights with them. In SHTF or TEOTWAWKI you would have to carry around batteries (very heavy for their size) and/or put yourself at risk to trade/scavenge more. Not only that but if you were to break them or have a malfunction you would be in a bad position. If you are going to run battery operated assesories just remember to always have iron sight back ups. my 2 cents..
     
  11. Martin Rage

    Martin Rage G&G Enthusiast

    1) PSL and XD 9mm 2 & 3 AK-47 with 1911s 4 & 5 Ak-74's with 1911s For where I live most shooting would be 50-300 yards, lots of woods and climate that goes from -10 in the winter to 100 with 95% humidity in the summer. The AK platform is durable, reliable and would suit my area effectively.
     
  12. i dont even have 3 AR's but the one i do have has an EOTech and a flip up rear sight. come on Martin you really think that lowly of me.
     
  13. PAPA G

    PAPA G G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    assuming 3/5ths of the family are kids, what could the youngsters handle easily??

    you could also put a rifle scabbard on Fido, and counter balance it with an ammo bag.:icon16:
     
  14. BarryHalls

    BarryHalls G&G Evangelist

    IDEALLY, in combat type situation, where the environment and opposition are variable or unknown, you want each member of your party to have the largest weapon they can manage, both for the primary and back up weapons. Also, ideally you have a 6 person party consisting of 3-4 assault rifles (calibers MAY vary but hopefully not), the remaining 2-3 would consist of a marksman, heavy gunner, shotgunner, sub-machine gunner (light gunner, pistol caliber carbine), or compact/light or (by contrast) heavy assault rifleman. Yes, I know that's more than 3 choices, but the weapons and roles of the 2-3 are typically picked from among those listed. The 'special weapons' would vary dependent upon proficiency and needs of the mission/party. Each of these people would have a side arm that best compliment the capability and role of the long arm, most often though, the side arm serves the same purpose for each member, which is along the lines of 'when cover and the long arm fail to protect you, use the side arm'. So, most often all members carry exactly the same side arm.

    That said, you, like me, don't have the 'ideal' squad or arms. So, we outfit the best we can, with what we have. IF I could pick 6 people and 6 weapon sets for them for an EOTWAKI fire fight out of town, and perhaps more fights in the years to come, (with hunting in mind), I would choose the following:

    DM:
    .308 AR-10 18" with flash hider, 4x10x40 Leopold scope, back up sites, bipod, flash light, and green laser OR eotech reflex scope. (yeah, yeah, 'tacticool', but practical, not economical, but anything of use, anything that can make your weapon easier to use or help you do more with it, would be nice to have)

    Shotgunner:
    Mossberg 500/590 OR Saiga 12 (dependent on many factors) flash light, reflex scope, various ammo.

    3-4 Assault:
    AK-47s, preferably MAK-90s, but I would happily take AK-74s as the 5.45 compliments the 7.62 so well. Various accessories and such, perhaps a couple of 75rd drum magazines as a 'make do' heavy gunner.

    Optional Light gunner:
    Pistol caliber compact rifle (PS-90, Uzi, CX Storm, etc), this would be a nice option for volume of fire in SHTF/EOTWAKI because the pistol rounds are lightweight making it easier to carry a great deal of them, and if this is the same caliber used for the parties side arm it would be possible to share ammo with the whole party. With certain arms, it is even possible to use the same magazines.

    As much as I like the good ol' .45 ACP for self defense, something in 9mm makes more sense for a combat squad because of volume of fire, follow up shots, multiple targets, multiple allies, so on, so forth. I like the Baretta M92.


    No, I'm not military or ex military, but many here are, and this is my paraphrase of their assessments, adjusted for my own SHTF/EOTWAKI mind set.



    Anyway, that's all well and good in the 'ideal world' where I have enough money and family members of fighting age to do all of that (the same world where S never HTF), but I'm worst off than the OP in that, at least I have just my wife and myself protecting our daughter on the short trip to the family farm, and at most I have my 3 best friends, and their various parents bugging out in some sort of caravan to who knows where.

    Given your family and arms you already own I think you have it pretty well figured out. I like semi auto pistols, but for SHTF revolvers make a lot of sense too. If you are looking for 'upgrades' look to my list. Assault rifles, and compact pistol caliber carbines are very very useful in a fire fight. Don't worry too much. If everyone is using a weapon they are familiar with it'll be better than some unfamiliar 'better' assault rifle in a crisis.

    Forget anything over a .308 for long range. In EOTWAKI, you won't be fired upon by someone far enough away to need more than the range of the .308's 600 yards (conservatively), and if you are, you'll never be able to spot a trained sniper. Remeber, even the AK's 7.62x39 will give you a solid 250 yards of minute of man. Can anyone in your family shoot much further than that anyway? I generally prefer the 30-06 to the .308, BUT for a semi auto rifle the .308 feeds better and .308 ARs are readily available.


    If I had to narrow it down to 2, grab them and GTFO weapons it would be an AK, and a 12 gauge, the first 2 weapons I purchased.
     
  15. BarryHalls

    BarryHalls G&G Evangelist

    I listed battery operated items, but I NEVER give up iron sights on any weapon. Even traditional optics can't be relied on forever.

    As a side note, those high dollar 'ultimate lithium' energizer batteries last for months or years in most of my electronic devices (hundreds of hours down on LED flash lights so far) and have a shelf life of 15 years. They are also stronger, so they produce brighter light and stronger movements when fresh. As an added bonus they are lighter weight than tradition lead batteries.
    They are a 'must have' in my SHTF kit.
     
  16. BarryHalls

    BarryHalls G&G Evangelist

    just as a final statement:

    I don't see a fire fight for escape as an inevitability in my area. I know that if we woke up one day and suddenly there was no government or electricity there would be riots across the nation, but that sort of thing happens a few times a year, on a small scale (tornadoes, ice storms, etc), and no crime ever comes of it.

    So, I don't expect it, but I'm as prepared as I can be, for now.
     
  17. TACAV

    TACAV G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

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    There are 15 people in my group including 11 males, 4 females, all aged 23-32 and one 3 year old.
    Equipped with...
    8x AR15s, 4x Remington 870 Tacticals, 2x R700 LTR police tactical .308 Sniper Rifles, 1x HK MP5K.
    9x .40 cal Sig P229 handguns
    3x 9mm Glock 19s
    1x 9mm Sig P226 SCT
    1x 9mm SW M&P9
    2x .40 cal Glock 27s
    2x .45ACP Sig P220
    1x .45ACP HK45
    1x .45ACP Glock 21SF
    1x .45ACP Glock 30
    2x .38 Spl. Snubbies
    2x 9mm Suppressors
    1x .45ACP Surpressor
    1x .308 Suppressor
    1x 5.56 Suppressor
    And someone would probably have a ruger 10/22 somewhere in there.
    I think we got it.

    The above is assuming we would be able to get everyone together.
    If not I have a bare bones team that is pretty much 95% guaranteed we would be able to hook up with each other

    In that case , 6 guys
    4x AR15s 2x Rem 870s, 1x Rem700 LTR, And everyone would have the same handgun + whatever extra personal pistol they wanted.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2010
  18. Martin Rage

    Martin Rage G&G Enthusiast

    Now of course not! I was just pointing out I see that a lot on people's rigs, but I expect GAG members like use to have common sense. I do like the idea of investing in some larger drum magazines for a heavy fire support member. I don't know if I would single one person out for a shotgun role. I would rather just equip 1 or 2 members with a shotgun as well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2010
  19. BarryHalls

    BarryHalls G&G Evangelist


    Dang cops and your fancy toys :)

    Seriously though, that's great. I'm envious. Armed to the teeth much?
     
  20. if there was more than just my 5 i'd bring more shotguns. but since im only working with a 5 man team, i dont plan on getting anywhere near the enemy. and i dont think everyone having as much as they can carry is a great idea. I mean i can carry an m240, 2 cans of ammo(15 lbs each), my 4 and about another 40-50 lbs. thats over 100 lbs. but i am going nowhere fast.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2010