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Incandescent Bulb Ban

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by Brother Bob, Dec 28, 2013.

  1. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

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    Heard on the radio a couple days ago that all 40 and 60 watt incandescent bulbs will no longer be manufactured due to .....well the government said so.....I went to Home Depot and looked at the price of the LED's a week ago. The 60 watt were around $13-15, but the 75 watt was $35!:yikes:.....Sure, it only uses around 12 watts of power and lasts a long time, but dang! So much for freedom of choice! Also, some florescent bulbs are also on the way out. All that will be available soon are those real skinny ones. That means a lot of light fixture replacements going on throughout this country.......


     
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  2. Ten Man

    Ten Man G&G Evangelist

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    Were you catching the tale end of a discussion?

    This was bandied about a couple years ago, and "died on the vine."

    Are the "axis of evil doers" in congress resurrecting it?
     
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  3. TNPIRATE

    TNPIRATE Landlubber Pirate Forum Contributor

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    Ya know I posted on this very same thing about 2 weeks or so before Christmas. I heard it on Fox News so I posted it here.

    I feel the same way as you do Bro Bob that we as Americans ARE NOT living in FREE AMERICA anymore. It has been 2 times since I have been on this site that I posted about incandescent bulbs. Both times I feel that I was flamed on because every one is saying that they last longer, and are so much better.

    I have a curly Que pig tailed bulb in the light in my living room. It's a 60 Wat, and the lighting is so dark you can't see to read a book. Incandescents you could pick up cheap, a pack of 4 for a buck. I can't see payin 19 to 35 bucks for a dam light bulb. Not to mention the new bulbs are made in chicom and ya best not break em due to the mercury in them. But hey that mercury is better for AMERICA right? Why ain't the EPA steppin all over that? But no they want to put more restrictions on coal.

    So we are all gonna be freezing and sitting in the dark. Keep some kerosene lights handy. I believe we are heading in the direction of N. Korea.....


    :swordfight:
     
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  4. neophyte

    neophyte Wonderment :) Forum Contributor

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    Strange, Now forced to buy Mercury

    Brother Bob: Sir, read on ::: you will get them hahahaha. SC opted out; I'm your man :) my new company :dance: 'BootLeggin Bulbs' hahaha.

    Majority of Americans
    still in the dark about incandescent light bulb phase-out

    - NBC News.com


    The Jan. 1 deadline to end production of 60- and 40-watt incandescent light bulbs is fast approaching, but most Americans aren't even aware that their traditional light sources will soon become a rare commodity, according to one consumer survey.

    Lighting manufacturer Osram Sylvania recently released its sixth annual "Sylvania Socket Survey," which found that only 4 in 10 consumers were aware that 60- and 40-watt light bulbs are being phased out in 2014 as production ends.

    Sixty-four percent of participants were aware that a general elimination of incandescent light bulbs was taking place, however, which represents a sharp increase from recent years. In Osram Sylvania's 2012 survey, only 52 percent of participants were aware of any phase-out. In 2008 — just a year after then-President George W. Bush signed the Energy Independence and Security Act (EISA) into law, mandating that low-efficiency light bulbs be gradually removed from production — only 21 percent of people surveyed knew of the oncoming shift in how you light up your house.
     
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  5. Brother Bob

    Brother Bob G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

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    Yeah, they resurrected it. I guess this includes the 100 watt incandescent's as well. We had a reprieve, but come January 1st, there will be a mad dash to get what's in stock..... You might just want to keep a few to show your grandchildren...... I like them in the Winter time. They supply great light and actually help keep your rooms warm when it's cold outside. A lot of "country bumpkins" use them in their well house to keep their water pipes and pressure tanks from freezing. I expect electric heaters to be the next target on the EPA's "verboten" list! Along with that, charcoal grills......etc.
     
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  6. rando

    rando G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

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    I use some smaller wattage for table lamps and use the 75 watt more. It never made sense to me banning incandescent bulbs. So the government says that the new cfl,s or whatever they are use less energy. Ok so now instead of buying bulbs for like $2 for a four pack of incandescent you now will pay maybe 10 to 12 times more and only getting one bulb. So maybe they last a little longer and use less energy bit didn't save the end consumer ****. Any energy saving device is way more costlier and don't save anything in the long run. Anyone see the price on the new led type floodlight bulbs. Its insane. Americans have less money and are paying more for all this nonsense.
     
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  7. TXplt

    TXplt Gun Toting Boeing Driver Forum Contributor

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    This is typical of the regime; whether it's ammo, freon, coal, oil, or light bulbs.

    Bans or threatened bans create bubbles. One needs to carry enough inventory to last one for the rest of one's life.

    For the idiots out there who think banning light bulbs is in some way "green" let me explain something. Not only are CFLs loaded with nasty stuff, but also the don't last as long as people think due to multiple cycling of the bulbs which they handle LESS well than incandescents.

    MOREOVER, if you have to HEAT your house and use electrical resistance heating, an incandescent (or any other bulb) is equally efficient as your central heater (AND you get "free" light). The energy lost in the incandescent goes toward heating your house offsetting other fuels used. The only benefit is the money difference between electrical heat and the possible benefit of a heat pump (which do in a way "cheat" physics--not really--and provide something for nothing kinda; they capture otherwise lost heat). So incandescents during heating cycles are actually good for reducing fuel expenditures.

    In any case, we've largely converted to LEDs because of the efficiency and the fact we don't need to change them. Although expensive, Cree finally got it right with the light on the warm white which we like and seem to get "as advertised" lifespan (I don't mind spending more for initial capital investment if it pays off in the long run). The phillips seem to work well too in shaded fixtures (the weird design looks funky for open lights). But I didn't need a government to tell me how to do this. Nor do I care what kind of light bulbs my neighbors use.

    I would NOT buy LED christmas lights; these do weather and fail too much to justify the additional expense for the outdoor versions IMHO. They aren't used enough to ever get back the cost differential and the best thing one can do for one's sanity (assuming one doesn't go "all out" with the Griswold plan) is get cheap christmas lights at the beginning of the year and toss them (or give them away) at the end of the year.

    HOWEVER, we now don't feel a need to turn the LEDs off because they use much less electricity (and are helping to heat our house too). Guess that's the next step the environwackos will try--remote switching of our energy.

    "Environmentalists" have absolutely no interest in a better planet--it's all about selfish control. They simply use "green" as an excuse for, by law, to tell everyone else what to do. A power game. Same as Witchcraft and burning witches in the old days.
     
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  8. DaTeacha

    DaTeacha Things are not what they seem. Forum Contributor

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    The CFL bulbs last enough longer and use enough less electricity that over the lifetime of the bulb - somewhere north of 5 or 6 years in normal use - you end up paying less. This is based on current costs for electricity.

    The big picture is that as our population continues to grow and we limit the production of air pollutants from coal burning plants to the extent that it's going to be about impossible to build a new one, and nukes will never be built again until we find a way to dispose of the nuclear waste, we are faced with having to use less electricity on a per person basis. There just won't be as much of the stuff available per person as there is now. We are spoiled by having as much electricity as we want whenever we want it, 24/7/365 unless the lines are down. As the customer usage (often called demand) begins to exceed our ability to produce it, you're going to have shortages. Brownouts and rotating blackouts would be part of the price you would pay if we all don't start switching to bulbs that use less juice.

    A big drain is known as "ghost wattage" - your TV uses more electricity in a year sitting there in 'ready' mode than it uses while you watch it for example. Same with your computer and about everything else unless you plug it into a load center that you can switch off. All those little tiny red, blue, or green lights indicate that your appliance or widget is using a trickle of electricity. Every one of the those trickles add up to a whole lot of electricity being used just so we have the luxury of things coming on instantly instead of taking a few seconds to warm up. Every one of them is contributing to why you are seeing incandescent bulbs gradually being phased out.

    Old refrigerators sitting in the garage or basement keeping the beer and pop cold are another big user. Again, we basically don't care because the electricity is always there in whatever amount we want.

    Imagine for just a bit what your life would be like if your meter was switched out to one that only allowed X number of kilowatt hours per month. Or if your power would be available for only certain times each day or certain days of the week. That could be the new reality if we don't either control our appetite for the stuff or permit new generating plants to be built. And before you bring it up, generating your own costs a whole lot more than buying it from the grid for the vast majority of people, not to mention the impact doing so would have on natural gas or gasoline or diesel fuel supplies.

    Your call.
     
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  9. TXplt

    TXplt Gun Toting Boeing Driver Forum Contributor

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    I was an electrical engineer before becoming a pilot--double major in engineering in public policy which specialized in regulatory measures and economics.

    We were extensively involved in power generation and development.

    Coal plants, with the exception of possibly SO2 and NOx, do not pollute any more than anything else. Period. There is absolutely no evidence CO2 is warming the planet and this is a government scam. We've covered the topic over and over.

    Nuclear waste can be reprocessed and 95% of it eliminated by burning the fissile material and breeding plutonium. In fact, many nukes DO start burning plutonium (created by double beta decay of natural uranium 238 via neutron capture) before they are refueled. The remaining waste is easily glassified and buried; insoluble in water. The only hurdles are political and not technical. In fact, the best site is Yucca Flat in NV where there's plenty of remains of nuclear tests already--not that nuclear material is particularly mobile. In fact, natural reactors have little movement of their heavier uranium.

    We are not spoiled at all--in fact we use very little energy in the grand scheme of things. We're not spoiled any more than early man was spoiled by burning too much whale fat for the luxury of lighting a cave, or pioneers in Alaska were spoiled by burning coal to keep warm in a pot bellied stove. We have plenty of energy for ANY standard of living we want to achieve; the only thing necessary it to remove legal encumbrances from its development. I'm sure in millennia those traveling between solar systems will look at OUR energy sources as being as primitive as cavemen discovering fire.

    We have plenty of energy; it's just a matter of using it. The human race has never run out of energy and never will. We simply let miscreants bridle us from making things better. There's plenty of fossil fuels for hundreds of years; same as for nuclear breeders. And we haven't even tapped fusion yet. So the human race will never run out unless it sits on its rear end and expects someone to write rules to find new energy sources as opposed to getting out and making them.

    Only the worst leftist liberal social constructionist would ever give an allocation of power--this is REALLY agenda 21 stuff. The price system (again left unencumbered by regulation) does this in exactly the right way by metering power by means of how much you can afford. Only YOU know what this is and no one else can determine it for you.

    The ONLY thing which will run us out of energy is a fascist regime--then again a fascist regime runs everyone out of everything. In fact, it's a lot like fuel starvation in an airplane--when a pilot loses power with plenty of fuel aboard simply because he's too inept to figure how to get the fuel from the tanks to the engine where it needs to be. We have plenty of energy sources ripe for the taking; we only need to get away from this self-effacing doomsday attitude that somehow by doing the right thing and making our destiny this has some downside. It doesn't.
     
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  10. lynxpilot

    lynxpilot Constitutionalist Forum Contributor

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    I'm biased. I'm an engineering supervisor at a coal-burning power station. I'd bail out in a heartbeat with evidence that we were hurting the environment, but since the government got involved we have politicians and other idiots coming to scientific conclusions that have absolutely no basis whatsoever. They've muddied the water so bad that you can't hardly trust anybody now, so even good science might get overlooked because of government interference. One thing though, that tells me it's a lot of BS, is who got rich off of the global warming thing, most notably Al Gore. Nuff said on that.
     
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  11. DudeInMT

    DudeInMT G&G Regular

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    I work at Lowe's, and the local paper as well as local news stations reported on this recently. There has been an absolute swarm of people coming in for incandescent bulbs, and buying them by the case.

    I personally wouldn't do that, I'd buy maybe a couple if I really liked them, but it's over at this point. There's not enough left to stock up for life (and it'd be tricky to keep that many bulbs anyway, without them getting damaged at some point, unless you have a lot of storage space). Time to find a new alternative. If you absolutely hate CFL, I suggest Halogen. Brighter, and whiter light than CLF (and incandescent). Just watch those wattages. Halogen bulbs are the reason they have fire warnings on lightbulbs. If your lamp says do not exceed 65w, don't put a 75w halogen in it.

    As for my family, we made the switch to CFL, because our power company paid for it (through increased rates...) After a month or so I couldn't even remember the difference between the lighting. I'm hoping that LED lights go down in price, currently they are @~ $20.00 / 1 bulb for the style I need... but are supposed to last 20+ years of regular daily use. If I knew they would last, I'd spend the $20 dollars, but really just having a hard time justifying that cost for 1 light bulb.
     
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  12. DaTeacha

    DaTeacha Things are not what they seem. Forum Contributor

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    With due deference to all the discussions we've had, the reality of the situation regarding power generation and light bulbs boils down to the perception of it in the eyes of the public. And that perception is that coal burning plants foul the air, releasing oxides of sulfur, CO2, and measurable amounts of radioactive isotopes, while nuclear plants are one serious malfunction away from a major disaster and a source of nuclear waste we don't know what to do with.

    The existence of 900 foot chimneys with the need to heat the exhaust of the coal burning by burning fuel oil at a rate of a couple hundred gallons a minute seems to support the idea that coal does indeed produce pollutants when burned. The chimneys are that high because that was the cheapest response to regulations saying that the air quality within a certain radius of a coal burning plant could not differ from that in the surrounding area by more than a specified amount. By building taller chimneys, the coal burners spread the pollutants evenly over that larger surrounding area and thus the area in the immediate vicinity of the plant was not substantially different from the larger one. The amount of pollutants was not decreased, just diluted over a larger area where it impacted more people. This was cheaper than removing the pollutants from the exhaust stream, which was the intent of the law. And you wonder why the public distrusts the utilities when it comes to the environment?

    We don't even want to get into the damages done by strip mining activities - mountaintop removal is just the tip of the iceberg, so to speak. The gross victimization of the Appalachian landowners by Big Coal is a very dark chapter in our history and very much part of the electricity generation issue.
    Oh yeah, the coal companies are owned by the same corporate entities that make the electricity. Here in Ohio we have hundreds of thousands of acres of strip mined land owned by Ohio Power, a major electricity producer. Most has been "reclaimed" but none of it even vaguely resembles what it was before it was stripped. The environment and the communities have been changed permanently. You can form your own opinions about whether the change was good or bad.

    A trip I took along the Ohio River just a couple years ago, feeling my eyes smart and water and my nostrils and throat burn, seeing the air blue from the smoke of coal burning power plants, all while tasting the sulfur fumes in the air, despite all the EPA regulations being met, pretty well serves to support, in my mind at least, the idea that coal plants pollute. Growing up along the shores of Lake Erie and seeing the stacks of a coal burner located about e miles from my house, belching smoke and steam, occasionally making jet engine noises loud enough that conversation had to stop until the blast was over, and fishing in the hot water outlet catching carp and sheepshead (freshwater drum) left indelible impressions on my mind that perhaps the thing was impacting the environment. Watching wetlands get filled with the collected fly ash from that plant in the name of reclamation added to that impression. Later on in life, visiting the vast piles of calcium sulfate from the scrubbers (completely filling a former creek valley to make what appears to be a level desert) from just one plant (Shippingport, PA) seems to suggest that there are a lot of particulates produced when coal is burned. Despite whatever engineering studies you want to quote, the public, including this science teacher, is pretty well convinced that coal is a dirty fuel. Clean coal technology is an oxymoron, plain and simple.

    Seeing the public reaction to the existence of nuclear plants along the shore of Lake Erie, the concern when the Three Mile Island plant malfunctioned, the mess at Chernobyl, the result of the earthquake off the coast of Japan, etc. etc. pretty well supports the idea that the public will not tolerate the construction of a nuclear plant "in my back yard" at any time in the forseeable future.

    Perhaps the salvation is in burning natural gas, which is rapidly coming on line in the Ohio Valley as the clean fuel of the future for electric generation, but that leaves the issues about horizontal drilling and fracking, which again is something about which the general perception is not good, but far better than that of coal or nukes. Natural gas burns clean, produces less waste, and basically has no nuclear waste of any kind. The gathering of it, especially through the use of shale gas technology, has far less environmental impact than mining coal. Moving the gas to point of use has less impact than moving coal or petroleum. Not to mention that converting coal plants to burn gas is going to be a whale of a lot cheaper than building a new plant of any type.

    But for now, guys, just try using less electricity. Give up the convenience of "instant on" by using a switched power strip for the TV, computers, etc. When a bulb burns out, try a CFL or LED instead. Shut off the lights if you aren't in the room. Let the house cool down (or warm up) when no one is there by using programmable thermostats. Get rid of the old 'fridge in the garage by getting a new one for the kitchen and putting the current kitchen one in the garage, or just get a bigger new one and only keep things cold if you're going to use them in the near future. There is a lot each of us can do, none of which seems like much individually, but all of which will add up to a whole lot if we are willing to work at it.
     
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  13. jwrauch

    jwrauch G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

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    This is just more green weenie socialistic power grabbing control. Freedom of choice- sure as long as its killing babies or same sex marriage. JR
     
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  14. gsbuickman

    gsbuickman G&G Evangelist

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    When you look at the scales on this issue, I think the cons far outweigh the pros, but without any sensible thought inWashington, that's par for the course.

    I am finding out I really don't like the cfl bulbs, I actually prefer halogen or incandescent.
    Granted I really like LED's for automotive applications, because they are superior to incandescent bulbs, i've never used them in my home because their **** expensive.

    I made the switch to CFL's a few years ago, but I really don't like them. They're dim, they throw off a **** yellow light that's unhealthy for our bodies and they are absolutely useless if your taking pictures anywhere near them.

    I've also noticed that we feel happier or better when we're exposed to nice warm white light, or the white/blue light, than we do when we're stuck with only CFL's in our homes. I noticed that when I had cfl bulbs in my living room and kitchen, i they always made me feel kinda gloomy, lazy or down in the dumps. I replaced the CFL's with incandescent and halogen, now I feel better. :haha:
     
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  15. TNPIRATE

    TNPIRATE Landlubber Pirate Forum Contributor

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    well I have had enough of it. I have to have the lights in the kitchen and the one in the living room to see to read a dam magazine. So I light in living room gets the pig tail bulb replace with a 100 watt out door flood light....

    So take that obamanation, and EPA. As was stated in the movie City Slickers "come and get it, come and get it, come and get it". I have had enough of this tyrants BS, laws, rules, and executive orders....


    :swordfight:
     
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  16. TXplt

    TXplt Gun Toting Boeing Driver Forum Contributor

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    No.

    I use LED's because I like the light and efficient things. But no one other than the unadulterated price has any right to meter my energy consumption. Or for that matter can because I will always find a way around it. No matter who, no matter what. And there are millions more like me--millions who are going to enjoy their life, USE energy, eat red meat, bacon and ice cream (not all at the same time) WITHOUT apology or feeling bad about it, and fart in elevators from time to time.

    I'm well acquainted with what leaves coal plants. In fact, if you care to know the last time I looked at during a study in 1986 a typical 1200 MWe plant released 86,000 tons on average of SO2--a sometimes bona-fide pollutant--annually (this was equipped with a best available technology scrubber at the time using typical coals)--again a drop in the bucket. I'm also well acquainted with opportunity costs. My using less energy won't affect the price--in fact by us using MORE energy we have a better chance to find new sources of it. And money we blow in this frivolous quest for "green" and by bridling ourselves literally kills people--by introducing huge inefficiencies into what used to be the most efficient economy in the world. The world relied on us--now we have gone crazy.

    While unsightly, strip mines grow back in a lifetime or so. Not only do we not damage the planet, we CANNOT have much of a long term effect. Certainly we CAN make things junky for a little bit; but not for very long.

    Great harm is caused by humans overstating their position.

    Do I like pollution ? No. I travel to China every other week where they have REAL pollution (mostly plain old fashioned soot--just like we did in Pittsburgh when I grew up there and the steel mills were fired up). This is REAL pollution; cadmium, mercury, lead compounds, antimony, soot, SO2, NOx, halogens, you name it. Shanghai had a few hundred meters in "fog" not too long ago--the "fog" being airborne junk from factories there. So we can make things worse for a little bit and there IS reason for pollution mitigants. Folks there DO have significant respiratory distress; at least until they get used to it (there was a HUGE chlorine smell going into HKG last week that could not have been anything good for you; the air smelled like an indoor swimming pool as we left the upper atmosphere of bona fide clean air). But folks adapt and there IS a way to have cheap energy AND clean air and water. It's not a zero sum game.

    Irrational perceptions of the public mean squat. I could care less about the same public perception which gave us obamacare, gun control, elected Boehner AND obama (twice) and destroyed our nation. Or fired the duck over political correctness only to see most of us AIN'T in the "public perception" that big brother progressives seem to think we belong in. Homey don't play that game anymore. No time here to kowtow to idiots who believe things that ain't true--I don't deal in lies and falsehoods nor have time for them. We all have seen what damage can be done with propaganda and are living it right now. We don't need to be a part of that here; or live the lamenting lie of the progressives. We have energy, we can find energy, we will always have energy. Burning some kinds of things creates real pollution (NOT CO2) and we have ways to mitigate this as well while at the same time having 8c/KWH electricity. Energy was dirt cheap when I was a kid; we have made things more expensive simply through regulatory insanity. There IS a point where the marginal benefit of pollution controls equals the marginal cost yet we blow past that and this money we steal costs lives.

    Ya know how much gas I burned last trip (it's actually kerosene) ? 30,000+ gallons one way. All to take 300 people and freight to Asia (as well as have gainful employment for myself). And this is in the most fuel efficient long range airplane in the world. And I'll typically do this 3 times a month. So just for that portion it's at least 180,000 gallons per month. 6 trips total between LA and Asia.

    So I ain't gonna worry about a few light bulbs.

    The only reason these number seem big btw is because sometimes we humans have too small a sense of perspective. Or of what we really can do when we devote our talents toward doing useful things instead of making excuses of what we can't do and trying to stop the dreams of the creative amongst us. God meant for us to ENJOY life in this little playground of his and gave us the creative skills to be able to always do this. He didn't mean for us to go through life being worry warts afraid of every boogeyman around the corner. He meant for us to be bold, joyous, and free.

    In fact, I'm about to use some of that good TEXAS natural gas to fire up my SPA to 104 degrees fahrenheit and enjoy a toasty hot tub with the cool TX air tonight. Probably do the same TOMORROW night too. In fact, maybe on New Years Eve I'll heat the pool up to 80 degrees and have a pool party--and ENJOY my life :) . THAT'LL take some gas--gotta get the pool temp from 45 up to 80 which will take about 6 hours of that BIG heater working full blast. In fact I think I'll leave the porch light on all night just like I do my Christmas lights AND the garage door floodlights (they ARE LED for what that's worth--but just 'cuz I'm too lazy to change them all the time).

    I ain't worried about burning through all that ammo shooting steel either. They'll make more :) .
     
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  17. Ron Eagle Elk

    Ron Eagle Elk G&G Evangelist

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    Went into the local hardware store today to pick up a new Thermostat (I'd really like to have a weekend without a crisis) and noticed all the bare shelves in the light bulb aisle. Clerk said the incandescent bulbs were sold out and they can't get any more.
     
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  18. TACAV

    TACAV G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

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    TXPlt wins the smarty pants award for the day. :silly:
     
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  19. bobvonb

    bobvonb G&G Evangelist

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    If a reasonable alternative for incandescent is available, I'll never replace with an incandescent again. And I DO care what my neighbor uses. If he uses incandescents it effects me with outages, brownout and higher bills. Thinking that by straining the system by either using up all the fossil fuel or by inefficient usage just because you can is irresponsible in my book.

    I've replaced too many 'cheap' incandesents to not notice that I'm paying a lot in the medium term. I've yet to have to replace one of these replacements. I've managed to find decent colors and not have not noticed any depression.

    Those that say we have hundreds of years of fossil fuel left show a remarkable disdain for the future generations. So it's OK to burn up ALL that stuff in a relative short time because you want it now??

    Finally, this 'we can't have a long term effect' is equally irresponsible. I'm not planning on living thousand of years, I care about what happens in the short term (me), medium term (my grandkids), and their progeny. I don't really think saying that good old mother nature and the earth will even itself out in a millennium or two after we've wiped ourselves out helps much.
     
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  20. Big Dog

    Big Dog Retired IT Dinosaur Wrangler Forum Contributor

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    Incandescents are done and over, period. Horse and buggy.

    I switched to CFL for the casa, largely because they do last much longer than the I-bulbs in my current and prior home. I got tired of replacing bulbs every month or two in every light fixture. And, there is a measurable cost savings in my electric bill. So they produce less heat..... I live in Florida. Don't need the extra heat most months.
    In time, once they have fully perfected the light balance and gotten them decently long-lived and reliable, and the cost becomes reasonable, I will switch to LED bulbs.
    Just my views and choices - we all make our own.
    A few cases of I-bulbs would last me less than a couple years at best - no need wasting money in them.
     
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