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Is this an UNFAIR practice???

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by Doglips, Aug 24, 2002.

  1. Doglips

    Doglips G&G Newbie

    Ill post the news paper artical....but the base of it is that the Highway Patrol is poseing as Construction workers...hard hat, safty vest ect...but holding a radar gun...to "catch speederes"
    or as they put it:
    "Florida Highway Patrol officers said they hope to instill paranoia in drivers"

    I think its a clever way to hand out tickets but to me it goes too far..I just cant explain why...like an itch you cant scratch...
    In any case what do you all think???????


    Officers Pose As Construction Workers To Nab Speeders
    Operation Hardhat Is Statewide Program

    ORLANDO, Fla. -- Florida Highway Patrol officers posing as construction workers nabbed dozens of speeders in Orlando, Fla., Friday, according to Local 6 News.

    The new, statewide program, Operation Hardhat, kicked off in Central Florida at an accident-prone stretch of the Greeway near the University toll plaza.

    In the first hour, officers ticketed nearly two dozen drivers for speeding.

    "They're doing what they would normally do and we're just using some creative ways to catch them, it's perfectly legal," Florida Highway Patrol spokesman Chuck Williams said.

    Several of the motorist caught speeding in the construction zones face $500 tickets.

    Operation Hardhat will run for the ext year and extend into school zones as well, according to Local 6 News.

    Florida Highway Patrol officers said they hope to instill paranoia in drivers to get them to think that a trooper could be anywhere looking to catch them speeding.

    "You shouldn't be speeding," ticketed speeder Vicent Decicco said. "I used to work in construction and I had co-worker hit by a car that was speeding. It's a construction zone. You should be a little careful anyway,"

    Watch Local 6 News for more on this story.
     
  2. Logansdad

    Logansdad Guest

    I give it a thumbs up...I also wish they would install cameras at dangerous intersections to record who ran the red light and caused the accident and issue tickets or press charges accordingly...
     

  3. Calvin

    Calvin G&G Newbie

    What's next? "Operation Peeping Tom", where officers can spy on you through your windows at any time they feel there's a suspicious act? "Operation Tidy Bowl" where they plant cameras in public toilets to make sure you only shake it once?
    There's got to be an end to this crap somewhere. Too much is going to the wrong people here. This will lead to other stuff, like cameras at stop lights, stop signs, busy intersections, public sidewalks, etc.. Look at England to see where this can go.......
     
  4. wes

    wes G&G Newbie

    I would be alright with this as long as they are in legitimate construction zones. I did traffic control in construction zones and some people don't care that they are putting LOTS of people in danger by going too fast. I also think they should it in school zones. I'm not in favor of cameras everywhere though.
     
  5. How about a random whiz quiz on the side of the road.
     
  6. wes

    wes G&G Newbie

    Calvin,I didn't see yours before I posted,but I agree with you.
     
  7. PAPA G

    PAPA G G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    in KY, its 55 mph in a construction zone or less. with highyway crews working so close to the line of traffic, its only common sense to slowdown while in the zone. there ain't no one in that much of a hurry!!! one of the big causes of highway crew death comes from speeders, and not paying attention to whats going on!!!:nod:
     
  8. NRAJOE

    NRAJOE YOU TALKIN' TO ME!? Forum Contributor

    LD, we have some of those intersection cameras at some of the worst intersections we have here in Toledo. Accidents at these crossroads have been reduced by 60%
     
  9. Lenny2

    Lenny2 Guest

    When I lived in IN, the troopers sometimes disguised themselves as Amish in a field. People who got caught speeding were confounded when they were told that the Amish were really troopers.
    I support the speedtraps. If people weren;t breaking the law, there would be no need for speedtraps. I really don't see the big deal.
     
  10. NRAJOE

    NRAJOE YOU TALKIN' TO ME!? Forum Contributor

    Too bad they wouldn't give chase in a buggy, talk about an easy getaway!
     
  11. Eric

    Eric G&G Newbie

    673
    0
    USA
    OOH my goodness! I've been going thru those construction zones constantly for the last few weeks. That never even crossed my mind. I wonder if other states will incorporate this practice.
     
  12. sounds like entrapment to me. And the cameras at intersections have been proven NOT to decrease accidents. In many cases they have increased because of people slamming on the brakes to avoid running the light and getting rear ended.
     
  13. Entrapment is when someone sets up a situation to cause a person to commit a crime...then busting them.

    No entrapment in this case.

    I say ^5 if it saves the lives of construction workers that are vulnerable to those who ignore the signs, the detours, the speed, etc.

    All too often I've seen the hog riders jot around signs and traffic in construction areas because they think they are smaller and are of no harm.

    Then, I've seen the drivers that think the workers need to get out of THEIR way.

    In Arizona if you are caught speeding in a construction zone when the workers are there it's double the fine...automatically.

    There's been too many deaths of construction workers and, I might add, way too many close calls with cops having vehicles pulled over on the shoulder or someone changing a tire.

    But what really boils my sausage is the truck drivers on freeways that won't allow merging traffic in (when they can) or get in the next lane to the left when approaching a roadside hazard whether it be a disabled vehicle...a traffic stop, etc. They have the mentality they are bigger...and badder. Maybe...but definately more dangerous.

    Drivers need to slow down and use caution with respect to hazards...rather than being one.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2002
  14. johno

    johno G&G Newbie

    california also doubles speeding tickets in construction zones.

    as far as operation hardhat goes, i don't like it at all. why don't the just put "Big brother is watching" signs all over the country. they're not going to try to take our freedoms all at once, they'll try it one or two at a time, and this is jsut one more step.
     
  15. Calvin

    Calvin G&G Newbie

    Helping to protect workers is one thing, but, instead of hiding officers in the mix, why not have them in their uniform. The only reason they are doing this is to get revenue, and that is all. If they REALLY cared about the workers, there'd be uniformed officers with radar guns visible to the public. Hiding officers only makes it seem that the state wants the money only, and not really care so much about the workers involved. Someone had too much time to think of this sham. It's BS to think this is anything other than a sham. It's as devious as it is sneaky.
     
  16. Lenny2

    Lenny2 Guest

    Calvin,
    I disagree. If they cared about the workers, being in plain sight is not the best way. People will slow down when they see the cops and speed up when they pass by. That means they will only slow down near the workers when they see cops.
    If cops are hidden, people will never know, so they will be more cautious all the time. Think about it. Hey there's some workers...or maybe they're cops...It will cause people to slow down either way. In your scenario people only slow down when they see cops.
     
  17. Klaus

    Klaus G&G Newbie

    I also have no problem with this. Construction zones and school zones both create abnormal conditions and are legitimate reasons to reduce the speed limit, at least at certain hours. It is not entrapment if the cops are not actively trying to make people speed so they can be ticketed.
     
  18. From reading my initial post I realized that I was none too specific on my stance on the issue of cops possing as construction workers.

    Unfortunately, I am middle of the road on this one. In some respects I can live with it and with others I can see some possible abuse or legal questions.

    For example, I can see the question as to WHO makes the complaint? The Officer at the site or the Officer in the chase vehicle on down the road?

    Most likely it would be the Officer in the pursuit vehicle that would most logically issue the citation based on a radio transmission from the Officer at the construction/work zone.

    But, which one, or both, appears in court?

    If the Officer in the pursuit vehicle shows then you can't question the Officer who OBSERVED the infraction....etc., etc., etc. which is your right by law.

    On the other hand if the Officer at the site appears then you can't question the accuracy of the citation written by the other Officer.

    It would defeat the purpose if both Officers are involved in the citation thus pulling the Officer from the site being monitored.

    Interesting, in deed.

    Some years ago some municipalities were using a similar technique where an undercover Officer would stand alongside a street, or sit on a bench, with a briefcase which contained a radar gun. He/she would call ahead to the pursuit vehicle with the vehicle description and/or license number. Precedence has been set in many of those cases and they no longer use that technique.

    Sounds like this construction or work zone technique will continue until challenged then it'll go by the wayside.

    If I were urged to make a decision I would say I am against the technique.

    Arizona, for the most part, uses an off-duty Officer (paid by the construction company) who sits with his cruiser, with light bar activated, at the site for safety reasons (and to investigate any possible accidents) and this tends to slow most drivers down.
     
    Last edited: Aug 24, 2002
  19. Oxford

    Oxford G&G Evangelist

    MO also doubles fines in construction zones. Sometimes, though, it seems that drivers believe it's ok to drive faster than posted speeds if other cars are speeding, too. Occasional several cars get pulled over and they have to pay the price. Those limits were posted there for a purpose...the safety of those construction workers and driver's, too.

    If you don't want tickets, don't violate the laws. If you do get caught, don't whine about it. Just learn something from the experience.

    And finally, I've heard that the most unsafe time of the day is just about the time kids get out of high school and are heading whereever, like a bat out of hell.

    Too bad most schools have dropped drivers education from their curriculum. Most needed the instruction on safety. Sadly, some will never live to be 21 years old because of their lack of driving skill.

    Oxford