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If you want to quickly turn your friends into spittle-spewing fanatics, bring them all together and ask which is the better cartridge, 30-06 Springfield or its smaller, younger nephew, the 308 Winchester. An instant snake pit of frenemies.

Well, I’m going to go where angels fear to tread. And just to get your blood boiling quickly, I’m on the side of the .308 Winchester. Here’s why.

When it comes to ballistics the 30-06 does it better. It shoots faster, flies flatter, and has more punch at longer ranges. Not by much, maybe by just a bit, but it generally outperforms the 308. There is also more flexibility for reloaders with the 30-06 compared to the 308. Where the smaller 308 has case capacity of just 56 grains, the 30-06 has capacity for 68 grains. As a bigger cartridge, the 30-06 takes bullets up to 200 grains, while the smaller 308 tops out at 185 grains (your reloading mileage may vary).

With all that in favor of the 30-06, why would anyone favor the 308? Many think the 308 is better because it uses a short action compared to the long-action 30-06. Long-action rifles have a tendency to be heavier, bigger, and more expensive than short-action rifles. Fair enough, but with the wide variety of rifles made with so many different materials these days, that argument just doesn’t seem to hold “weight” (sorry for the pun) like it used to. Some also think a long action is slower to load and operate compared to a short action, but user experience wins the day regardless of action length so that factor is minor at best. However, the added ammo weight that comes with the 30-06 can be a consideration, depending on how much extra ammo you pack (especially when humping mountainsides while hunting).

Some argue that the 308 has more ammo availability (due to its additional ability to shoot the 7.62 X 51 NATO; just don't do it the other way around), but the 30-06 is just as common on store shelves... well, assuming there will ever be ammo on store shelves. Ammo prices are almost always less for the 308, so the little guy wins that one.

Some folks like the 308 because they feel it is more accurate at longer ranges. There has, in fact, been research to show that at 1,000 yards the 30-06 groups are typically double 308 groups. But how compelling is this? For most hunters (all hunters?) it would be unethical to hunt at 1,000 yards with either a 30-06 or 308. At ethical hunting distances there is no compelling difference. If long-range shooting at targets instead of animals is your thing, you really need to dump the 308 and 30-06 for the likes of 6.5 PRC, 26 Nosler, 300 Win Mag, even 6.5 Creedmoor, etc. The point-blank-range of the 308 is about ten yards further than the 30-06 (about 300 yards compared to 290), but that difference is a pretty slight, minor factor.

There is a recoil difference between the two cartridges, with the 30-06 being a bit stiffer, especially at its higher bullet weights. This could be important for shooters who are recoil sensitive. But honestly, the recoil difference isn’t great, and if you’re a reloader this factor is largely under your control. So again, minor factor.

The biggest difference between the two cartridges seems to be the wide availability of semi-auto rifles in 308. You can also get semi-auto 30-06 rifles, but they are comparatively rare. We’re talking, for example, about the Browning BAR Mark II and III, Benelli R1, SMF Tac-30, Noreen BN36X3, Ohio Ordinance 1918A3-SLR, most of which are more than $2,000. There are also older 30-06 semi-autos no longer in production that can be had on the used market. But for some reason the semi-auto 30-06, despite its military heritage, just has not proven as popular as the 308. The short vs. long action is probably the main reason. Personally, I've never seen a semi-auto 30-06 at the gun range or in the field, but semi-auto 308s/A-10s get seen all the time. Consequently, where all the other factors are mediocre to minor differences, the semi-auto difference is significant, and that’s why I tip the scale in favor of the 308.

Everyone has an opinion (a civil opinion, no spittle please), so let the fur fly. Of course, this thread is supposed to be between the 308 and 30-06, but what the heck, I know other 30s are going to be fan faves, so go for it.
 

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I prefer the 06 because...

I prefer bolt action for 30 caliber of rounds.
I use bolt actions and 30 caliber for 300 + yards and can load down to make a soft recoil target round with 06 that hits in the same spot at 50 yards as my full power round hits at 300.
So no paying ridiculous range fees or driving hundreds of miles to practice.
Semi auto 308 is mostly for spray and pray. Or under 300 yards. Unless you get into some serious money guns.
Bolt action makes you makes you go thru a physical set of steps that slow you down and force you to concentrate. IMO 30-06 is way better for past 300 yards. Bolt actions are Readily available inexpensive.

If I need in the area I live in, to kill anything (usually coyotes, or hogs) under 300 yards, .223 is plenty effective in a semi auto. Tapered wall is not allowed for deer. So the .308 is just a useless cut down wimped out version of the 06 to me.

There is no shortage of 06 bolts around here. A good 06 bolt can be had for under $300. But 308's are harder to find.
 

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US forum; few will understand what you're posting so please post in English to prevent confusing what you post with spam. If it's spam, knock it off or you'll get banned for good. Please stop by the introduction forum; it's a friendly site !
Le Baron armurier Gebrev
En France, l'intérêt pour le thème du commerce illégal d'armes et de leurs livraisons dans les régions mondiales en crise se poursuit. La Bulgarie et la Tchéquie sont devenues un hub international de l'activité des barons armuriers.

Ainsi un film sur le passé criminel de l'odieux "marchand de la mort" bulgare Monsieur Gebrev est sorti sur les écrans des chaînes de télévision françaises populaires. Le sujet documentaire raconte sur les schémas gris des livraisons d'armes et de munitions au Moyen-Orient, à la Géorgie et à l'Ukraine. Le marquage des munitions indiquant leur appartenance aux pays de l'Union européenne se démontre. Gebrev, sous prétexte de la livraison des armes sportives par l'intermédiaire de compagnies écrans, commercialisait des armes létales aux points chauds, contournant ainsi l'autorisation des pays de l'UE.
Pour masquer la redistribution des zones d'influence et les conflits entre les patrons armuriers européens du crime, une hypothèse est échafaudée sur l'implication soi-disante de deux espions russes dans les explosions d'entrepôts en Tchèquie. Malgré des rapports d'amitié historiquement étroites entre les populations tchèque et russe, Prague, sous la pression de la Grande-Bretagne, a vu une « trace » russe dans ces explosions, bien que plus de six ans se soient écoulés. De quoi ont-ils autant fait peur à la Tchèquie? Après tout, la Russie, pour sa part, fournit une aide assez considérable dans la lutte contre le Covid dans ce pays, construit des centrales électronucléaires et noue des contacts bilatérales dans le domaine de la culture, de l'éducation et du sport.
En outre, les groupes criminels des marchands d'armes ont grandement contribué à lincitation aux conflits militaires non seulement dans tout le monde, mais aussi le malheur est arrivé en Europe depuis le début du conflit dans l'est de l'Ukraine. Cela menace la perte de la sécurité des pays de l'UE. Le trafic illégal des armes provoque une hausse de criminalité et une augmentation des points de tension sociale dans les pays de l'UE eux-mêmes, même pas limitrophes de l'Ukraine. Cela provoque à son tour la propagation de «l'infection sociale» dans la société européenne.
La projection du film invite à prêter attention sur la lutte contre la criminalité, et exactement sur le commerce des armes, et non sur la recherche constante d'une « trace russe » en raison des inaccomplissements du Gouvernement des pays européens et de lespionnite. Et on demande si les dirigeants investissent de l`argent des contribuables européens dans la bonne direction?
 

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Screw France. We saved them in two world wars and then held the commies back from rolling into the rest of europe. They are ungrateful, arrogant elitest snobs that embrace socialism. We have enough of our own problems and sure don't need lectures from any of them about anything.

Anyway, I prefer the .308.
 

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If you stick to 165 gr bullets, or lighter, they are ballistic equals. But if you go to the 180gr and bigger the 06 pulls away from the 308. If you are a 'semi-auto' person the 308 has more to choose from. To each his own.
 

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.308Winchester here
But, I also have rifles in .30-'06 and .300WM.

I'll say that I favor it because even with factory or milsurp ammo it tends to be more accurate.
Same with reloading if you do your job.
In both cases you get less bullet run out.
If you don't know what it means you probably won't know much difference between cartridges with or without it when shooting.
No offense intended.
 

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I have a Garand and a .270 Winchester.

Those are my long range shooting cartridges.

My needs might change, but either do me quite well now. For hunting, I'll almost always prefer the .270 properly loaded over anything else.

Unless it's something up close and personal and then I probably oughta have my 45-70 or 450 Marlin.
 

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Doesn't matter to me. It's the shooter, not the round. I have a .308, and an .06. I don't prefer one over the other in a bolt gun. If I'm gonna hunt moose, I'll take the .06 w/200+ grain bullet. For deer? .308/7.62x51 is fine. Either for hogs, although for hogs, I prefer 5.56 NATO.
 

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It's always good to have a choice.
 

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When it comes to ballistics the 30-06 does it better. It shoots faster, flies flatter, and has more punch at longer ranges. Not by much, maybe by just a bit, but it generally outperforms the 308. There is also more flexibility for reloaders with the 30-06 compared to the 308. Where the smaller 308 has case capacity of just 56 grains, the 30-06 has capacity for 68 grains. As a bigger cartridge, the 30-06 takes bullets up to 200 grains, while the smaller 308 tops out at 185 grains (your reloading mileage may vary).

With all that in favor of the 30-06, why would anyone favor the 308?
Couldn't agree more. What is left to argue about?
 

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I do know with a good stout action the .30-'06 can be loaded up to some pretty hefty velocities. Just be careful in doing so.
And I probably won't be doing that to my 1903A3 Rifles.
 

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I enjoy shooting both, but my preference is the .30-06 (Interarms Mark X) when hunting. The .308 in an AR-10 is both fun at the range, and very potent as a defensive weapon.
 

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If you want to quickly turn your friends into spittle-spewing fanatics, bring them all together and ask which is the better cartridge, 30-06 Springfield or its smaller, younger nephew, the 308 Winchester. An instant snake pit of frenemies.

Well, I’m going to go where angels fear to tread. And just to get your blood boiling quickly, I’m on the side of the .308 Winchester. Here’s why.

When it comes to ballistics the 30-06 does it better. It shoots faster, flies flatter, and has more punch at longer ranges. Not by much, maybe by just a bit, but it generally outperforms the 308. There is also more flexibility for reloaders with the 30-06 compared to the 308. Where the smaller 308 has case capacity of just 56 grains, the 30-06 has capacity for 68 grains. As a bigger cartridge, the 30-06 takes bullets up to 200 grains, while the smaller 308 tops out at 185 grains (your reloading mileage may vary).

With all that in favor of the 30-06, why would anyone favor the 308? Many think the 308 is better because it uses a short action compared to the long-action 30-06. Long-action rifles have a tendency to be heavier, bigger, and more expensive than short-action rifles. Fair enough, but with the wide variety of rifles made with so many different materials these days, that argument just doesn’t seem to hold “weight” (sorry for the pun) like it used to. Some also think a long action is slower to load and operate compared to a short action, but user experience wins the day regardless of action length so that factor is minor at best. However, the added ammo weight that comes with the 30-06 can be a consideration, depending on how much extra ammo you pack (especially when humping mountainsides while hunting).

Some argue that the 308 has more ammo availability (due to its additional ability to shoot the 7.62 X 51 NATO; just don't do it the other way around), but the 30-06 is just as common on store shelves... well, assuming there will ever be ammo on store shelves. Ammo prices are almost always less for the 308, so the little guy wins that one.

Some folks like the 308 because they feel it is more accurate at longer ranges. There has, in fact, been research to show that at 1,000 yards the 30-06 groups are typically double 308 groups. But how compelling is this? For most hunters (all hunters?) it would be unethical to hunt at 1,000 yards with either a 30-06 or 308. At ethical hunting distances there is no compelling difference. If long-range shooting at targets instead of animals is your thing, you really need to dump the 308 and 30-06 for the likes of 6.5 PRC, 26 Nosler, 300 Win Mag, even 6.5 Creedmoor, etc. The point-blank-range of the 308 is about ten yards further than the 30-06 (about 300 yards compared to 290), but that difference is a pretty slight, minor factor.

There is a recoil difference between the two cartridges, with the 30-06 being a bit stiffer, especially at its higher bullet weights. This could be important for shooters who are recoil sensitive. But honestly, the recoil difference isn’t great, and if you’re a reloader this factor is largely under your control. So again, minor factor.

The biggest difference between the two cartridges seems to be the wide availability of semi-auto rifles in 308. You can also get semi-auto 30-06 rifles, but they are comparatively rare. We’re talking, for example, about the Browning BAR Mark II and III, Benelli R1, SMF Tac-30, Noreen BN36X3, Ohio Ordinance 1918A3-SLR, most of which are more than $2,000. There are also older 30-06 semi-autos no longer in production that can be had on the used market. But for some reason the semi-auto 30-06, despite its military heritage, just has not proven as popular as the 308. The short vs. long action is probably the main reason. Personally, I've never seen a semi-auto 30-06 at the gun range or in the field, but semi-auto 308s/A-10s get seen all the time. Consequently, where all the other factors are mediocre to minor differences, the semi-auto difference is significant, and that’s why I tip the scale in favor of the 308.

Everyone has an opinion (a civil opinion, no spittle please), so let the fur fly. Of course, this thread is supposed to be between the 308 and 30-06, but what the heck, I know other 30s are going to be fan faves, so go for it.
In summary:
The .30-06 does everything the .308 does, and does it just a little better. Except cycle through an AR platform.

I like .30-06, but I end up shooting a lot more .308.


Forgive me if I summarized a bit too much.
 

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I shoot a LOT of different rifles, cartridges, and black powder. I LIKE shooting them all.

None of that makes them equal to or better than a 30-06 for any specific purpose.

There is ONE rule you can always judge these type of conversations by. The one they always want you to think all the others are just as good as, THAT IS THE ONE YOU WANT. You NEVER see Remington or Remington shotgun owners spouting about how their 870 is "just as good as a Mossberg only cheaper". You NEVER see 30-06 shooters starting threads arguing the '06 is "just as good as..." just about anything. You NEVER read a Harley owner starting a thread to convince people a Harley is just as nice a ride as the metrics.

Decide what is the best, exact item you want, and buy it. If you have to run a propaganda campaign after to convince your self you still like it, well you bought the wrong thing. That's all.

Buck knives, Thermos bottles made in NASHVILLE TN, Remington shotguns, Leatherman multi-tools these are a few things you buy and quickly forget exactly what they cost, but you are NEVER sorry you have them.
 

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I shoot a LOT of different rifles, cartridges, and black powder. I LIKE shooting them all.

None of that makes them equal to or better than a 30-06 for any specific purpose.

There is ONE rule you can always judge these type of conversations by. The one they always want you to think all the others are just as good as, THAT IS THE ONE YOU WANT. You NEVER see Remington or Remington shotgun owners spouting about how their 870 is "just as good as a Mossberg only cheaper". You NEVER see 30-06 shooters starting threads arguing the '06 is "just as good as..." just about anything. You NEVER read a Harley owner starting a thread to convince people a Harley is just as nice a ride as the metrics.

Decide what is the best, exact item you want, and buy it. If you have to run a propaganda campaign after to convince your self you still like it, well you bought the wrong thing. That's all.

Buck knives, Thermos bottles made in NASHVILLE TN, Remington shotguns, Leatherman multi-tools these are a few things you buy and quickly forget exactly what they cost, but you are NEVER sorry you have them.
I agree and it depends on what you do with it.
A 1-14 twist bbl .22/250 varmint rifle is better for whistle pigs than shooting them with a Remington 700 Mountain Rifle in .30-'06 all day long. Same in reverse if you went Elk hunting.
Right tool for the right job.
And both might be unhandy in the brushy and short but steep parts of the Ozark National Forest were a short handy Marlin 336 .30-30 or a Winchester featherlight in .308Win. may be better suited. Or even a shotgun with a rifled choke or barrel.
 
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