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Sorry to hear you're having issues. I can say I don't have a Para and have yet to deal with them. I'd add, remember, even though you may not think you have to or should, YOU'LL CATCH MORE FLIES WITH HONEY. As they say. :)

As for Ruger, only had to deal with them once and I had no issues. In that instance I'd purchased a Ruger New Model Blackhawk and the top had rust under the bluing. They fixed it the first time but when they sent it back they sent it back with an extra cylinder chambered in .45acp. Upon calling them I was told to send it back because my model wasn't one that had or came with an extra cylinder. They paid for everything both ways but it was an inconvenience. Of which I expressed and when asked what they could do to make it better I said, make sure that extra cylinder is timed to my gun and send it back again with it. lol WHICH I'D ADD THEY DID!!! And they were friendly in all respects.

Had to deal with S&W. No issues other then it took sending the item in twice to get it resolved to my satisfaction and in order to get it to that satisfaction it took slamming them on their facebook page. lol

With the S&W SW1911PD it was originally sent back because after having it on my side under my jacket in an OWB Blackhawk Serpa II the rear of the slide developed rust. S&W gladly took it back paying for everything both ways and they too were friendly in all respects.

Problem was, when I got it back, after 2 weeks I think it was, ito me, it didn't look like they did a **** thing to it. So I liked their favebook page and himmed and hawed as to whether or not to clam them there. I kept seeing their postings about how well this shooter of theirs was oing and how this shooter loved this gun and this and that and well, I just couldn't take it anymore. So, I started slamming. One thing I said was, I'd be just as happy with my SW1911PD if it didn't have rust on it. lol Anyhow my point, Julie Golob sent me a private message via facebook and suggested and asked I call Paul Pluff directly and explain my problem and that he'd take care of me. So, I did.

I explained all of the above and that I'd gotten it back and it looked no different then when I'd sent it in. He said he'd have a pick up tag sent to me and have it so the gun would go directly to him and he'd take care of it. WHICH, HE DID!!!

So, I always start with honey. When that doesn't work, then I will get nasty. After all, THEY KNOW THE BEST FORM OF ADVERTISING IS WORD OF MOUTH. AS WELL AS THEY ALSO KNOW IT CAN BE THE WORST FORM OF ADVERTISING IF A CUSTOMER IS UNHAPPY.

I will assume you're letter to the CEO will get you results. As to whether or not they'll be results to your satisfaction, we will have to wait and see.

One thing I'd like to add regarding Ruger is this. I like the fact you can now, and it's been this way for a while now, but you can directly email the CEO...

Those are the only two manufacturers I've had to deal with and even though I had an issue with one, I am happy with the ifnal result. I can't hold the company, S&W, liable for something an employee did or in this case, didn't do. After my emotions died down and I'd had the gun back a while I'd gotten to thinking that it as probably the person who got my gun that didn't do anything with it or fix or resolve it to my satisfaction the first time. I'm positive now that someone higher up at S&W never saw and thus said, there;s nothing wrong wit hit just send it back as it is.

And because of that, I felt compelled to and contacted Julie Golob via facebook and apologized for taking the route I did. I also explained why I went that route. I also sent an email to Paul Pluff saying the same thing and thanking him for taking care of me personally. I don't really know if it mattered to them or not. But it did to me and I felt better and that's what counts. After all, again, I can't and couldn't in good conscience hold an entire company responsible for something one person did or didn't do.

One last thing. As far as the magazines go, let me suggest two things. The first, no matter the capacity, I always run 1 less than. The second, in the case of your magazines I would suggest loading each mag several times with say only 10 rounds and load and unled each one like 15 to 20 times each. Then I'd add one round to each one and load and unload them again 15-20 times each. I'd suggest doing that and see if by the time you get to that 14th round it's easier to load them and it will take that 14th round. I'd also suggest if it does, you only load 13. If it doesn't, that you only load 12. I'd also suggest if you only get to 12 or 13 that after mush use, you try and see if it'll ever take that 14th round. And again, whether it does or not, I would suggest not loading it full anyhow.

Granted, you can try this or not and you can take the suggestions or not. Not fully loading my mags to full capacity is just something I refrain from doing. Just my personal preference.

Truth be told, sometimes, SOME MAGAZINES JUST OUTRIGHT SUCK!!! In fact, for me, THE XD MAGS SUCK!!! Or rather, the springs do. When one of Springfield's armorers told me they tell and suggest to officers that they unload and reload magazines in their carry guns once a week I knew right then and there they had issues with them, likely the same issue I was having, that being FTF's, and this was their fix. I have never heard nor has anyone ever told me to or suggested this be done. Not even as a way of exercising the spring as I finally asked if that's what it was she was suggesting I do and if that's basically what she was saying. To which she said. yes.

In the end I just said screw it and bought new Wolff springs, a 10pack of +5%power springs. Brownell's part # 969-000-228WB/manufacturer part # 79504.

And whether or not you this gets resolved to your satisfaction, might I suggest doing the same thing using Brownell's part # 969-760-730WB/manufacturer part # 76073/ This is a 3pack for $17.29.

This link is to all of the above. Just scroll to you model of gun or enter part #'s in search area.

SEMI-AUTO EXTRA POWER MAGAZINE SPRINGS | Brownells

SORRY IT'S SO LONG.
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 · (Edited)
Di-yam, Glock, you must've had a hell of a strong cup o'joe...lol...naw, not that late at night.

Here's where I'm at: I only have a few hi-cap handguns.

PT99 claims a 17 round magazine...out of the box it took 17 rounds. No fuss.
PT58 claims a 12 round magazine...out of the box it took 12 rounds. No fuss.
CZ82 claimed 12 round magazine capacity...it holds 12 rounds. No fuss.
P14-45 claims a 14 round magazine...out of the box it took 12. Fuss.

I have never before needed to "work-in" a magazine to get it to hold the number of rounds claimed by any manufacturer...except for Para's. I don't feel I should have to "break-in" springs, replace springs, or deal with an 'over time' procedure with a magazine from any firearm.

I'm happy with the gun and fully capable of dealing with 12-shots...If the gun's magazine holds only 12 rounds then don't advertise it holds 14 rounds.

Thanks for your input...although I've never before seen you so long-winded...lol
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Thank you neo.

I'm trying to keep from posting anything negative on such a forum as fecesbook for the moment.

I will take a look at their page, however.
 

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Discussion Starter · #25 ·
Received a telephone call from Chris at Para. We discussed the issue I was having. They have sent me a call tag to have the magazines sent back to them. They will double-check the mags and if necessary they will replace them. We had a good chat and he understood my plight and concern.

I asked which letter he to which he was responding and he told me he had the letter for awhile and apologized for not responding earlier...I gave him a heads-up on my letter I recently sent to the CEO...he appreciated that.

That, Neo, is why I didn't want to use facebook as a sounding board.

Sooo, tomorrow the mags go back.

Things are looking up.
 

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Di-yam, Glock, you must've had a hell of a strong cup o'joe...lol...naw, not that late at night.

Here's where I'm at: I only have a few hi-cap handguns.

PT99 claims a 17 round magazine...out of the box it took 17 rounds. No fuss.
PT58 claims a 12 round magazine...out of the box it took 12 rounds. No fuss.
CZ82 claimed 12 round magazine capacity...it holds 12 rounds. No fuss.
P14-45 claims a 14 round magazine...out of the box it took 12. Fuss.

I have never before needed to "work-in" a magazine to get it to hold the number of rounds claimed by any manufacturer...except for Para's. I don't feel I should have to "break-in" springs, replace springs, or deal with an 'over time' procedure with a magazine from any firearm.

I'm happy with the gun and fully capable of dealing with 12-shots...If the gun's magazine holds only 12 rounds then don't advertise it holds 14 rounds.

Thanks for your input...although I've never before seen you so long-winded...lol

If you think that was long you should have seen the email reply I had for Senator Durbin. lmao.

But seriously, I have my moments and it doesn't require me to have any caffeine. lol

P.S.

Remember, I went to facebook after I'd received it back pretty much how I'd sent it in.

You hadn't even had that satisfaction yet so I agree, no need to go that route. Yet anyhow. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #27 · (Edited)
^^^LOL

Just gotta wait and see.

After several useless dealings with other manufacturer's (guns included) customer services I've come to the point that I simply don't expect much anymore but I will always give it the ol' hard-core consumer try...<grin>

Perhaps these folks haven't got it yet that it's the consumer who ultimately provides them jobs and pays their wages.

Oh, Neo, the fb is still on the table as an option...lol
 

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Perhaps these folks haven't got it yet that it's the consumer who ultimately provides them jobs and pays their wages.

Welcome to Freedom Group. The others are not much different. I've had Rem. and Marlin hang up multiple times into a 20-30 minute call. Can't have much more fun than that.
 

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^^^LOL

Just gotta wait and see.

After several useless dealings with other manufacturer's (guns included) customer services I've come to the point that I simply don't expect much anymore but I will always give it the ol' hard-core consumer try...<grin>

Perhaps these folks haven't got it yet that it's the consumer who ultimately provides them jobs and pays their wages.

Oh, Neo, the fb is still on the table as an option...lol
.....thought I would check in and see how the mag issue was going - Glad to see you had contact with the company. If you didn't send them yet it may be helpful to send the ammo as well - sometimes a loads OAL can effect all sorts of things - can't wait to see the results.
 

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Discussion Starter · #30 ·
Sent the magzines back; they were received by Para on May 7th and were shipped out from Para on the 8th.
I received the magazines today.

Para stated they were able to load 2-magazines with 14-rounds but replaced two magazines. So, I loaded them up...they all accepted 14-rounds...but I needed to use the magazine loader they sent to me with the returned magazines.

I'm satisfied with the results and impressed with the quick evaluation and fast return...I'm truly grateful to Mr. Craig's intervention and for the loading device with which to force the 13th and 14th round into the magazines.

I think the sun will shine on Pineville, SC today.

Still no response from the CEO, however...that's a little disappointing to some degree.

Thanks to Chris!
 

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oldjarhead: Sir, Thanks for following up:). Gives us all a sense relief, knowing that manufactor actually care.
Cares about what customers that are to grumpy and crankeey to get there own mag loader and insist of free stuff from the manufacture... What happened to the old days when people took care of there own problems instead of complaining about stuff that nothing is wrong with ....
 

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Discussion Starter · #34 ·
Cares about what customers that are to grumpy and crankeey to get there own mag loader and insist of free stuff from the manufacture... What happened to the old days when people took care of there own problems instead of complaining about stuff that nothing is wrong with ....
Did you read any of the posts on this thread? No-one asked for anything; surely no free 'stuff'.
Except for a couple, all the comments were constructive, offering advice and personal experiences...and then there's you...

But, hey, why read when you can post moronic BS instead...right?
 

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Did you read any of the posts on this thread? No-one asked for anything; surely no free 'stuff'.
Except for a couple, all the comments were constructive, offering advice and personal experiences...and then there's you...

But, hey, why read when you can post moronic BS instead...right?
Posted telling you you needed a mag loader to get the last round in and you said no way .... What do they do send you a mag loader and tell you to use it so.
 

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Discussion Starter · #36 · (Edited)
^^^Nope...not these nor the two I purchased...I'll wait fer a reply.
Is this the the post to which you're referring?

This comment is a response to getting 14 rounds in the magazines NOT a refusal to the 'loader" suggestion.

I had an HKS loader at the time I made this statement and nearly broke off the lever. Before trying anything else I chose to wait for a reply.

Para sending their loader was a complete surprise; plus it verified the need for a heavy-duty loading device, other than HKS, for their magazines. Their loader is much beefier than the HKS.

BTW...they never told me to use it...but they sent it so I used it.
 

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Sent the magzines back; they were received by Para on May 7th and were shipped out from Para on the 8th.
I received the magazines today.

Para stated they were able to load 2-magazines with 14-rounds but replaced two magazines. So, I loaded them up...they all accepted 14-rounds...but I needed to use the magazine loader they sent to me with the returned magazines.

I'm satisfied with the results and impressed with the quick evaluation and fast return...I'm truly grateful to Mr. Craig's intervention and for the loading device with which to force the 13th and 14th round into the magazines.

I think the sun will shine on Pineville, SC today.

Still no response from the CEO, however...that's a little disappointing to some degree.

Thanks to Chris!
So the mag they replaced was the one you modified? That's really excellent customer service - and to think that those mags actually held 14 rounds when you repeatedly said they wouldn't.....awesome...... I guess the point is this: there were no false claims or lies in their advertising - only someone that wanted to blame the manufacturer when the manufacturer wasn't at fault. That's a loss of credibility on your part - glad your problem is solved and I hope you can enjoy your pistol :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
Does propa stand for Pro-Para?
Andrew
Andrew,

It appears he works for Para as he has alluded to things I have only discussed with Para management's Mr. Craig and were stated on my note to Mr. Craig that I included with the magazines.
Hmmm...I wonder if he is Mr. Craig...lol
I'm sure he is a 'shining star' for Para...<tongue in cheek>
 

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Andrew,

It appears he works for Para as he has alluded to things I have only discussed with Para management's Mr. Craig and were stated on my note to Mr. Craig that I included with the magazines.
Hmmm...I wonder if he is Mr. Craig...lol
I'm sure he is a 'shining star' for Para...<tongue in cheek>
Ummmm - wow. You really are "para"noid - a quick trip to the UD on Google would give you the meaning of propa...and the info all comes from your previous rants.... I was looking for info on the new ProCustom 1445 when I ran across your post ... I explained how to load Para mags (because they are difficult when new) and you railroaded me over with the claim they won't hold the advertised quantity.... and they obviously do. You called a company out (who's product I do shoot) and they proved you wrong - it seems you are a little disappointed that your adamant claims of lies and deceit aren't true.... and perhaps a little ticked that someone in the General Public did the same. I will buy another Para product in the future to shoot Iron Man class not only because I like their design but because of the way they handle customers such as you. Have a great time - share the sport and make some noise with your new pistol -
 
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