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Lil big brother again

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by Dale, Mar 30, 2002.

  1. Well, Monday should prove interesting.

    Due to the severe lack of rain here in the Sonoran Desert part of Arizona the county officials are taking a boot strap gestappo approach to water control.

    Monday they are coming by and putting a locked meter on my well pump to monitor and record my water usage, all because I have over two acres (and for tax purposes) I'm considered a ranch.

    I received a letter saying that, following the test, I will be required to reduce my water usage by 15%.

    My wife and I are, and always have been, very water conscious and I can't see anyway possible to reduce the use by 15%. We have no livestock.....we have no swimming pool....we have no vegetation that needs regular watering.......we only do our clothes washing with a completely full load and with less than a full tub of water......toilets are .75 gallon a flush......we have very few dishes to wash and when we do the dishwasher is on water save mode and full......we don't wash our vehicles at home.....we have water saver shower heads...etc....and the list goes on.

    Anyway, my point is they can legally (according to my Attorney) come onto my property and montior my water and then put the meter on since the water, obviously, is not personal property and is a resource and, in Arizona, you can't own a resource.

    The other thing that gets my goat is, legally, if I don't decrease by 15% they can legally, and are threatening to do so, remove my well head and pump....even though those I own.
    And, to jack up my use so I can show a savings later is not only wasteful but useless since they can come back every other month, if they wish, and it's a game I'd rather not have to spend my time playing.
    But, MOST of all that gets to me is that Little Big Brother has the power to bully you with no reasonable belief you are even doing something wrong.

    Welcome to the reality world of a Democratic based county governemnt in this county. The only plus side is that they are doing it to all the 'ranches' out here and not signling anyone out.

    I'm ranting, I know....thanks for listening, lol....yepper.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2002
  2. wes

    wes G&G Newbie

    Last year in Klamath Falls,Or. The government shut water off to farmers,they organized and almost had a riot,went on for several months,finally the government opened the gates. They won. Maybe getting your neighbors together to protest this abuse of power might help. Good luck.
     

  3. Tober

    Tober Firearm Aficionado Forum Contributor

    Send an Emal to John MaCain, he will want to reform this as well, and make it 50%

    Well it is furbar, and non sense.

    I would stay the same way you have been, and say "Screw them" in the nicest way possible, its not like they can take your water away, because if they do, then you have no running water, and your house can be condemn, and they then can take it, and thus they can not do it unles they have a court order saying you are like polluting, but I would be careful because water conservation is weird with people.

    You will do fine and prolly will not have to worry with it.
     
  4. Well Jason, in a way to is a big deal to concern myself over.

    According to my Attorney the state prohibits anyone from ownership of resources and the law is such as the state....delegated to individual counties....has the power to restrict or curtail water useage in certain circumstances.

    I, too, thought they couldn't cut off your water (life sustaining element) but, that is NOT the case. The state's thought is if the water table is getting so low, and it is...., then they have the right to force reductions to prevent drying up the water table which could collapse caverns, etc. and prevent water from reaching here in the future.

    I guess if I was the only one for miles they probably wouldn't care if my water supply dried up. But there's an estimated 1300 people on the same water table.

    So, I don't think I will politely tell them to take a hike, etc.

    My Lawyer is handling it......I pay him good money to do the right thing. I'm sure things will work out in the long run.

    The thing that baffles me is, if they had monitored my use and proved to me I was using above the average and I could reduce 15% I could buy it. I bet we don't even use the average for a two person household.
     
  5. Uncle Red

    Uncle Red G&G Newbie

    Is there any way you can petition for an exemption or variance, since you are not a rancher/farmer and you do have all the water saving devices added to your home. I might even be willing to let the county building inspector come in to verify that the toilet/shower head, etc., are water friendly. -UR.
     
  6. The question is what is the standard. Since now they are not monitoring your use now, how do the know what you use? or are they using some average water use for a ranch per acre? If that is they case I would think you are below that. Or are the going to monitor your use for the first month and then ask you to reduce from there the following month. If this is the case this is a question of pricipals. I myself would not inflate the usage, i would look for ways to reduce by 15%. for instance a five min shower would have to be reduced to 4 min and 30 sec. turn off the water while brushing your teeth, ect... Besides most of these types of policies have a floor and if you are under the floor you do not need to worry.
     
  7. Doglips

    Doglips G&G Newbie

    You will like the Golag commrad...In FL the state is cutting down peoples Citrus trees to protect the orange groves from citrus canker....no court order they walk on your propert and cut down and burn your tree(s) if they SUSPECT it may be infected.....Guess its time to put up that picture of Comrad Stalin and get some vodka.
     
  8. My Attorney is having a meeting with the county supervisors tomorrow for an explanation since this is county wide. And yes, the intend to montior water usage for a month and then tell you what you used and it's up to me to cut the usage by 15% or the pump head will be removed.

    And, principals...yes, it's about that but I'm finding out just how sneaky even a county government can be.

    We've looked at various ways to voluntarily help and do our part. And, I don't mind helping to save a failing water table but my gripe is the type of restrictions they are imposing WITHOUT any knowledge of our lifestyles and water usage.

    Several of us owners have invited the county to first inspect our homes and see the water saving devices we have....to give us ideas of how to conserve. Heck they won't even suggest ways to help.

    A neighbor of mine brought to the county's attention he has a rain water catch he uses for his livestock which fills a sistern and he draws from that. Their basic response was, "Well, we're not impressed...that is water that would've made it to the water table anyway".

    I'm sure everything will work out OK...just annoys me of the approach the county is taking and their lack of willingness to assist residents in helping them.
     
  9. Dale, I lived in Phoenix for almost 20 years before getting out of that place and moving to Tucson. I like it MUCH better. I've seen them ration water before and fine people for wasting it. They actually have "water police" that look for things like people washing their car or overwatering their lawn. That happens here too. If someone has a sprinkler going and if the water goes on the sidewalk or runs down the street they will get a ticket. But to threaten to shutdown your well is insane. There was a very similar story here a few years ago. There is a big shot doctor here that does alternative medicine and has a BIG garden of strange plants. The county threatened to shut him down but the strange part is that he could switch to city water (the plumbing was already there) and use as much water as he wanted. He just had to pay for it. That makes no sense to me. He would still use as much water but the county would make money. I've lived in the desert most of my life and know all about the lack of water here. Benjamin Franklin once said "He who owns the well will know the value of water"
     
  10. Doglips, are they still doing that "citrus canker" thing, just because the big groves will not take care of thir own trees...
     
  11. Rock

    Rock G&G Newbie

    WELCOME TO THE N.W.O. it will not get better!
     
  12. Tober

    Tober Firearm Aficionado Forum Contributor

    Well it seems to me that they are not quite rational, and your county is ran by Liberal minded people.


    Good luck with your lawyer
     
  13. Rave

    Rave G&G Evangelist

    imo it is the same all over.The gummint does what the gummint wants.....but there are various reasons!
    You have the gummint that wants to put on a show of how neccessary they are,especially just as their budget comes up,like Waco.
    You have the gummint that wants to show you just how low you are on the food chain,like IRS.
    You have the gummint that wants to let you know that you may not do,say or think anything that is contrary to their agenda,like PC.
    Finally you have the gummint that does not want you to do anything about it,ATF and associated private armys that want you guns.
    Show me your papers,fool!
    I think that fairly well sums it up!Do you?
    :nod: :nod: :nod: :(
     
  14. BenP

    BenP G&G Newbie

    Maybe it's time to start thinking about installing that new underground well head and start running in stealth mode.

    If it weren't such short notice, I'd start putting up water tanks and increase my consumption 30% before the meter goes on. Then when they tell to cut back or else, you can just turn the flow down to 15% over and bank the surplus into tanks. Then you could sell it back when the market gets ripe. It wouldn't be waste, since you recover 100% of the pumped water in the tanks.

    Of course, they might then decide that they want your bank of water and make some regulation allowing them to come in and confiscate it. Probably use the excuse that the tanks might leak and cause an environmental hazard.

    Welcome to tyranny.