Looting and Shooting

Discussion in 'Political/Religious Topics' started by Kellen, May 30, 2020.

  1. Kellen

    Kellen G&G Evangelist

    President Trump is being broadly criticized, from both the right and the left, for tweeting, “When the looting starts, the shooting starts.” Classic Trump, and honestly, the side of him I do not like. He is far too quick to engage in juvenile antics when presidential leadership would better serve both him and the country. This is a painful time for America, and his juvenile tweets are hurting, not helping.

    Okay, got that off my chest. But from a more dispassionate perspective, we actually do have a history of shooting looters in this country (just like other countries do). The textbook example is the aftermath of the 1906 San Francisco earthquake. Both local and federal forces were given full authorization to kill looters, and estimates are between a dozen to 100 looters will killed as a result.

    Another example. In 1913 the San Antonio River flooded central Texas. With consequent evacuations the looters swept in, and that resulted in an order issued by the Texas Rangers: “Shoot all looters, and shoot to kill.”

    Also noteworthy: On the day that MLK was shot and killed in 1968, Mayor Daly of Chicago issued this proclamation against rioters: “…shoot to kill any arsonist . . . because they’re potential murderers, and to issue a police order to shoot to maim or cripple any arsonists and looters. Arsonists to kill, and looters to maim.” Mayor Daly’s office received plenty of mail about that proclamation (snail mail back in the day) and reported that it was 15-to-1 in favor of shooting looters.

    Everything changed with the 1985 supreme court case of Tennessee v. Garner. Since then, deadly force by police can only to be used when a fleeing felon (and by extension a looter) poses a threat of violence.

    It is also noteworthy that civilians “loot,” but when the exact same thing happens by military personnel it is called “pillaging.” Under international law/treaties, pillaging is a war crime (reference: the Fourth Geneva Convention of 1949).
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
    Rex in OTZ, ItstheHOFF, DWFan and 3 others like this.
  2. FN FAL

    FN FAL NOT a new member Forum Contributor

    They have let it get far too out of hand already. Every governor, mayor, etc should of already had a public "we are shooting to kill" order out and be very willing to enforce it. If they are unwilling to take the steps to enforce the law they need to leave and let those who will take over.
    goat roper, BigEd63, neophyte and 5 others like this.

  3. TACAV

    TACAV G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    I dont think Trump was encouraging shooting but rather making a pretty accurate statement of what tends to happen when people loot and riot.

    The media is trying to make a big deal out of it just like anything else he says.

    It is ironic though that all across the country there have already been several reports of all these rioters shooting each other vs getting shot by victims who are not participating in said riot.

    Lots of reports of drive by shootings into other crowds of rioters or at other innocent buildings etc.

    One federal FPS officer was shot and killed in another shooting attack on a federal building from a "peaceful protestor".

    Its like when you commonly hear about multiple people shot at the memorial services for other urban shooting victims.

    leftists love to eat their own both politically as well as physically. They just cant resist not attacking each other whether its on social media or out on the streets.

    Im coining a new term...

    its called
    Left on left violence because that covers both the black on black violence that plagues democrat cities like LA or Baltimore or Chicago as well as including all those white antifa thugs and anarchists.
  4. 63B20

    63B20 G&G Evangelist

    When I first heard it I thought he meant some one in the mob would shoot some one else and it would escalate just the way it sounded to me.
  5. TXplt

    TXplt Gun Toting Boeing Driver Forum Contributor


    (from the TX penal code)

    A person is justified in using deadly force against another to protect land or tangible, movable property:

    (1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.41 ;  and

    (2) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

    (A) to prevent the other's imminent commission of arson, burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, theft during the nighttime, or criminal mischief during the nighttime;  or

    (B) to prevent the other who is fleeing immediately after committing burglary, robbery, aggravated robbery, or theft during the nighttime from escaping with the property;  and

    (3) he reasonably believes that:

    (A) the land or property cannot be protected or recovered by any other means;  or

    (B) the use of force other than deadly force to protect or recover the land or property would expose the actor or another to a substantial risk of death or serious bodily injury.

    So loot and shoot is legally justified and I think quite reasonable that the Don said what he did. IF you present a hazard to others or perceived threat to life or grave bodily injury the risk of getting shot is definitely there. Or that bad actors may also be engaging in shooting violence. Best not to loot to begin with.

    There are a substantial amount of good citizens who will not tolerate threatening behavior and exposing the reality of leftist lies of appeasement by the president is good advice (and in a lot of ways a public service). IF you try to hurt someone, try to burn them, or threaten their belongings there's a good chance you'll be punished and that punishment might involve a tactical decision by a good citizen defending himself and property. So if the leftists are telling you that citizens will just stand by while you burn and plunder they're telling you just one more lie; if you are considering being involved in such bad behavior you may well be hurt or killed.
    Bigfoot, BigEd63, DWFan and 6 others like this.
  6. shop tom

    shop tom G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    Should government forces shoot looters and arsonists? No, unless martial law is declared.

    Should property owners be allowed to use deadly force against those looting and burning private property?

    Bigfoot, animalspooker, DWFan and 4 others like this.
  7. PaleHawkDown

    PaleHawkDown G&G Evangelist

    Don't forget about 80% of those wackadoo spree shooters.
    BigEd63, neophyte and jwrauch like this.
  8. PaleHawkDown

    PaleHawkDown G&G Evangelist

    In a lot of video games or RPGs there is an effect called "Thorns". Basically you can put this effect on a character, and any damage they try to do to someone else gets reflected back. There was also an episode of Red Dwarf where an entire prison was built around this concept. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Justice_(Red_Dwarf)

    If you steal, something valuable of yours goes missing, if you try to cause harm, the damage only happens to you, if you damage property you find everything you own broken.

    Whenever I watch these riots I wish there were a real-world equivalent.

    I know, to an extent, the fact that these people are mostly damaging their own neighborhoods is a bit like that, but they aren't smart enough to understand that, and the damage they are doing affects them more indirectly.
    neophyte likes this.
  9. Rave

    Rave G&G Evangelist

    Before it is over some looters need to be shot,an example must be set. :usa2::(
  10. savage12755a

    savage12755a G&G Evangelist

    If someone thinks what I own, have worked my whole life for, is worth their life, they are welcome to try and steal it when I am around.
    animalspooker, BigEd63, rando and 4 others like this.
  11. blaster

    blaster G&G Evangelist

    this is part of the reason I voted for Pres. Trump and will vote for him again. political correctness has strangled us (and the rest of the World) for too long. Pres. Trump is immune from the p.c. b.s. the the media and leftists use to get their way. like you said in the other part of your good post, we have a history of shooting looters. I believe that the President, Governors etc.. should announce the penalty for arson and looting and carry out their threat! those vermin need to be disciplined or its only going to get worse!
  12. TXplt

    TXplt Gun Toting Boeing Driver Forum Contributor

    ChaZam, Rocky7, neophyte and 2 others like this.
  13. neophyte

    neophyte Wonderment :) Forum Contributor


    North Carolina General Statute 14-51.2 covers three defenses: Each of these defenses are similar in that a lawful occupant of a home, workplace, or motor vehicle is presumed to have a reasonable fear of imminent death or serious bodily harm if both of the following apply:

    1. The person against whom the defense force was used was unlawfully or forcibly entering or had unlawfully / forcibly entered or that person had removed or was attempting to remove another person against their will from said place, and
    2. The occupant knew or had reason to believe an unlawful and forcible entry or unlawful and forcible act was or had occurred. EXCEPT,
    3. In situations as detailed in NC GS 14-51.2(c) or as previously stated regarding law enforcement officers and bail bondsmen.
    For additional information see NCGS 14-51.2 & NCGS 14-51.3

    When can I use non deadly force to prevent or stop an attacker?
    A person may defend themselves, even if the other’s assault is not deadly. One may use a reasonable amount of force to stop / prevent serious injury to their self or others. However, deadly force may be prohibited unless the person has a reasonable belief that force is necessary to prevent imminent death or bodily harm.
    BigEd63, K75RT, Rocky7 and 1 other person like this.
  14. Big Dog

    Big Dog Retired IT Dinosaur Wrangler Forum Contributor

    Looters and rioters should be cuffed and stuffed..... unless they raise a weapon - gun, knife, club, rock, etc. - against the cops, then I say "light him up!" :mad:
    noelekal, BigEd63, neophyte and 3 others like this.
  15. blue fox

    blue fox G&G Evangelist

    "Bag em and Tag em"
  16. blue fox

    blue fox G&G Evangelist

    I live about 2 miles from the Missouri River. along with that fact I have a tendency to remind people that I know folks with rural property and backhoes or hogs. I even smile when I tell them this.
  17. rockman7

    rockman7 G&G Evangelist

    blaster and neophyte like this.
  18. Rocky7

    Rocky7 G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    That's the way I took it. He was simply stating a fact.

    I could end these riots in 1-2 hrs. I think you could, too. In fact, I am sure you could and know more about dealing with mobs than I do. I have only a little experience, but here's what I've seen work with police and it fits with my own rodeos:

    In a crowd of people who want to fight, only a few really want to fight. The rest only want to fight if it's 10:1; they will quit fast with the right motivation, for example if they start to leak or their buddy starts to leak. Identify and take down the instigators. Take them down fast, rough and publicly. The instigators are the ones who might really want to fight. I'd make up platoons with a "strike squad" of 3-4 serious men armed with batons behind the robocops. The line makes a quick hole for the squad whenever an instigator gets close to the front lines, hit-and-run, grabbing up an instigator as fast as possible, but always within, say, 30 seconds or they retreat to cover and wait for another opportunity. Lots of fists and elbows and baton strikes. Rinse and repeat. A lot of these bottle-throwers are going to remember they didn't want to throw bottles before they wanted to throw bottles. They'll get jumpy. The instigators will stay farther and farther back. Then it will be over.
    Last edited: May 30, 2020
    BigEd63, rando, TXplt and 4 others like this.