Mask facts

Discussion in 'Political/Religious Topics' started by savage12755a, Jul 15, 2020.

  1. Jaison

    Jaison G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    Beck's Dark is the devil for that particular affliction. It's definitely a gold medal winner in that regard.

    Good lager!
     
  2. savage12755a

    savage12755a G&G Evangelist

    I find it amazing when normally intelligent, rational individuals belittle facts from the experts and cling to the false methodology being hyped by the same media they decry for their false reporting. Personally, I cannot wear a mask and I steadfastly refuse to even try. Wearing the mask is like walking into the grocery store, grabbing a cart from the stack then walking over to the door and grabbing a sanitizing wipe to clean the handle. Too little, too late and futile.
     
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  3. Cyrano

    Cyrano Resident Curmudgeon Forum Contributor

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    You need paprika on those devilled eggs, MrGrudgemyer.
     
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  4. ChaZam

    ChaZam G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    ^^^ This + 10... ^^^
     
  5. MrGrudgemyer

    MrGrudgemyer G&G Evangelist

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    Hmmm...sounds like a good add. I usually do a little salt and pepper, but I will give paprika a whirl.

    Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk
     
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  6. mitchr

    mitchr G&G Evangelist

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    Problem is which "expert" are we supposed to believe? We got "experts" coming out of the woodwork & they can't agree!
     
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  7. OneShotKill

    OneShotKill G&G Evangelist

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    You do realize that this is fake news of a sort, right? The American Medical Association, the American Hospital Association and the American Nurses Association came out a month after this small report and pleaded with everyone to wear masks, you knew that right? https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucej...s-coronavirus-cases-surge-again/#4d4cff693004

    The people you quoted have not said a word in response since June 1st. Duh?
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
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  8. 2020 mask.jpg 2020 mask.jpg It worked! The communists have learned how to separate US! Tell us that masks work, when the packaging says it has no protection against covid -19, some states have mandated face coverings...what is it's use? bandanas, OK, cloth masks, OK do they stop a virus? No, they stop your expression of the way you interact with people....key to the commie effort.
     
    Last edited: Jul 15, 2020
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  9. OneShotKill

    OneShotKill G&G Evangelist

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    OK forget the hype either way and think about the issue yourself. Any disclaimer on a product is required to protect the seller from lawsuits, right? The warning is legal protection from lawsuits, it has nothing to do about the product. Think about warnings on guns:
    How about this one, "Read warnings before using guns"--Tangfolio Witness;

    Or how about this one from Ruger? "AMMUNITION (CARTRIDGES) NOTICE WE SPECIFICALLY DISCLAIM RESPONSIBILITY FOR ANY DAMAGE OR INJURY WHATSOEVER OCCURRING IN CONNECTION WITH, OR AS THE RESULT OF, THE USE IN RUGER FIREARMS OF FAULTY, OR NONSTANDARD, OR “REMANUFACTURED” OR HAND LOADED (RELOADED) AMMUNITION, OR OF CARTRIDGES OTHER THAN THOSE FOR WHICH THE FIREARM WAS ORIGINALLY CHAMBERED."

    Any warning on any product is simply the notice lawyers mandate to keep people from suing for a variety of reasons. Every product on the planet has some of those warnings because no product has a "guarantee or warranty to completely protect a person from Covid". No company anywhere will sell any mask that is guaranteed to be 100% effective. Even the N95 is said to only prevent the passage of 95% of particles of a certain size. Will a gas mask protect you from covid 19? Probably, if you wear it 100% properly 100% of the time.

    When it comes to protection from Covid, or Anthrax or any toxic fume, it takes more than 1 molecule to kill you. How many? Anthrax spores are said to become toxic once you breath in something like 10,000. So, how many Covid molecules? Nobody knows. Now look at the first article cited above, it says Covid "particles" are about 125 nm, how big is that? Trust me about 1/90th the size of a human hair, you cannot even see one on a pinhead in bright light.

    What do we know about people who get infected and die? Well, the most infectious places, seem to be nursing homes, meat packing plants and places where people breath the same air over and over, right? So, if you are breathing the same air over and over and there in Covid in the air, how much do you have to take in to get sick? Depends on the person right?

    Bottom line: The article cited by the op had only one reference that they claimed said the product did not work to protect against Covid. Right? Did anybody read that paper? Well here it is, just go to the conclusion and read it 3 times. Does it say that a surgical mask provides no protection? Does it show that they even tested one mask. Nope, they just wrote a guide from the product information that said if you needed a certain level of protection, the surgical mask was not designed for that level of protection. It did not in anyway show there was zero protection in capturing, delaying, slowing the flow or anything. Just that the particle size design was not for that purpose, so would a surgical mask cut some of a sneeze? Common sense is OK here. https://webcache.googleusercontent....nical-bulletin.pdf+&cd=13&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us

    Just saying, do not be so guillable as to read one article, And as I quoted above, all the major medical organizations now say masks benefit both the person wearing them and people in the crowd, duh? 100% protection? Well kind of like a condom, if you wear it all the time, there are no holes in it and you do not take it off for even a second during the relevant time. https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucej...s-coronavirus-cases-surge-again/#48986a883004

    If you do not want to wear one then don't just do not put out fake data.
     
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  10. OneShotKill

    OneShotKill G&G Evangelist

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    That is your right to not wear one at your home or your property. But like a seatbelt, no smoking areas, and other safety rules do not allow us to blow smoke or a virus out in a public place into the face of others which can then kill some poor old soul who had no clue it was there.

    Just because you do not believe the experts does not make you right or wrong.

    All the major experts, the AMA etc all agree masks prevent the spread. https://www.forbes.com/sites/brucej...s-coronavirus-cases-surge-again/#48986a883004
     
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  11. Kellen

    Kellen G&G Evangelist

    You are all correct. Which is to say, the discussion up to this point has been confusing, to say the least. Hopefully the following will help allay some of the confusion.

    1. Not all masks are created equal
    A lot of the confusion is due to the word “masks” being used generically, but there are scores of different mask types. Ferrari and Volkswagen are both cars, but their performance is vastly different. Similarly, different masks have different performance levels. When discussing masks in the context of SARS-CoV-2 the main ones we’re concerned with are the N95 (technically, a respirator), surgical, and cloth masks, and those three definitely do not perform the same. (I’ll leave out N99, KN95, FFP1, FFP2, FFP3, etc. masks and just keep it to the basic three.)

    2. How particles are measured
    The purpose of a mask is to filter particles. Particles are measured in microns. (A micron is also known as a “micrometer” because it is equal to one-millionth of a meter in size.) To give a sense of scale, a 2011 study found that a human hair averages between 60 to 80 microns in diameter. For even smaller measurements, scientists use nanometers, or one-billionth of a meter. In some of the studies referenced below, you may see the use of “nm” if referring to nanometers.

    3. What size is the SARS-CoV-2 virus?
    As you’ve probably seen in the popular media, electron micrographs of the coronavirus show its shape as spherical with spikes. As reported in the New England Journal of Medicine, the diameter typically ranges between .06 and .14 microns in size; average is .125 microns (i.e., 1/8th of a micron). That is very, very tiny. Even a large SARS-CoV-2 virus at .14 microns is still just .2% the diameter of a thin (60 micron) human hair. (https://www.nejm.org/doi/10.1056/NEJMoa2001017)

    4. Droplets vs. Vapor and why it matters
    The coronavirus is a small particle, but it bonds to a larger vapor or droplet. Humans can emit both droplets and vapors when they breathe, speak, cough, sneeze, etc. Vapor is the gas phase of a substance that is normally in a liquid state. Droplets are still in a liquid state. Droplets typically measure 5 to 10 microns in size and don’t normally travel more than 3 feet because they are heavier than air. Unlike droplets, vapor, which is defined as less than 5 microns, is lighter than air and can remain suspended in the atmosphere from 3 to 16 hours. Typical human vapor is around 1 micron in size. Because SARS-CoV-2 can be transmitted by vapors in the air, the W.H.O. has classified it as an airborne disease. (https://www.who.int/news-room/comme...ications-for-infection-prevention-precautions)

    5. What size particles are filtered by cloth masks?
    Cloth face masks are NOT considered personal protective equipment and there is no standard for cloth masks. Everyone uses a different kind. Very few studies have been done on cloth masks, but here is one which says the best cloth materials, when folded into multiple layers, can filter down to 3 microns with 90% efficiency, and less than 3 microns at perhaps the 65% level. (https://pubs.acs.org/doi/10.1021/acsnano.0c03252?goto=supporting-info). So the best cloth mask can help protect against some coronavirus transmission, even at larger vapor sizes, but that effectiveness decreases exponentially at the human-sized vapor of 1 micron. The bottom line is that cloth masks do not prevent you from getting SARS-CoV-2. CDC, W.H.O., and state/local public health agencies do not expect a cloth mask to protect you from getting the coronavirus. Instead, they want the cloth mask to help prevent you from spreading droplets around others. If you know of a public health agency which claims cloth masks either prevent the spread of human vapors, or protect you from getting contagious human vapors (at least to the 65% level), please share.

    6. N95 respirators
    N95 respirators, if you are qualified to use them and have them fitted professionally, are highly efficient at filtering the coronavirus, even the vapor particles that are 1 micron in size. The “95” part of N95 means it filters out 95% or better. Again, you should not be using N95 respirators unless you are a medical professional trained in their usage.

    7. Surgical masks
    Like cloth, surgical masks do not protect the wearer from vapor infection. The main difference between a surgical mask and a cloth mask is in the material since surgical masks are more resistant to fluid buildup. The bottom line: surgical masks do not provide full protection from inhalation of airborne pathogens such as SARS-CoV-2.

    8. Masks deteriorate with time
    The longer you wear a mask, the more saturated it will become with droplets and vapor. That makes it wet inside against your face, which you may have already experienced. As a mask gets wet, its performance (i.e., ability to filter droplets and vapors) decreases substantially. That is why N95 respirators and surgical masks are intended to be disposable. (https://www.cdc.gov/niosh/npptl/pdfs/UnderstandDifferenceInfographic-508.pdf)

    9. Mask hazards
    As I’m sure you’ve learned by now, masks can be uncomfortable to wear, especially for long periods of time. Generally, the more air-tight the seal, the more uncomfortable the mask. Medical professionals undergo training on how to properly wear a mask. Untrained people (i.e., the rest of us) have a tendency to touch the mask, especially as it increasingly causes discomfort and gets wet. That’s bad because the virus can concentrate on the outside of a mask and make it more contaminated (https://bmcinfectdis.biomedcentral.com/track/pdf/10.1186/s12879-019-4109-x). That means you can increase the likelihood of then transmitting the virus into your system. Masks can also self-contaminate (i.e., on the inside) when not used properly. Here’s what the W.H.O. has to say about that: https://www.who.int/publications/i/...of-the-novel-coronavirus-(2019-ncov)-outbreak.

    Conclusion: N95 respirators are effective as personal protective equipment against SARS-CoV-2. Surgical masks and cloth masks are not personal protective equipment; they are both ineffective at preventing airborne inhalation of vapor laden with SARS-CoV-2. However, both surgical masks and cloth masks can reduce, to varying degrees, the spread of human droplets laden with SARS-CoV-2, though they have very limited ability to prevent transmission of human vapors. Do not rely on surgical or cloth masks as a way to avoid spreading airborne pathogens (like SARS-CoV-2) to vulnerable populations.

    An opinion: The one thing that we have not seen from our many governments that mandate masks is proper safety training on how to wear them. Why are there no public service announcements or similar on TV? Given the inherent hazards associated with wearing any kind of mask or respirator, that inaction borders on criminal neglect.

    Though long, this post has actually been truncated because this seemingly simple subject is, like the proverbial iceberg, much bigger than it at first appears (which is another reason there is so much confusion out there).
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2020
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  12. Mowgli T.

    Mowgli T. G&G Evangelist

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    The politicians tell us to wear a mask. Others say nothing or tell us not to. I suppose we'll have a final answer when we decide 130,000 deaths carries some kind of a message. I wear a mask as not to put others at risk. The care and concern for others is not a concern?
     
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  13. Get Out

    Get Out G&G Evangelist

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    Wife and I wear cloth masks whenever we go into stores or when we're close to people outdoors. We bring our own sanitizer wipes in case the store has run out at the door, to wipe down cart handles or to pull open the door. We also save it to open the freezer doors and the cooler doors while grocery shopping, then chuck it when finished shopping. The wife keeps alcohol based hand sanitizer in her purse and we keep alcohol based hand sanitizer in the cars too. We also spray the interior of our cars with a disinfectant from time to time.
    IMOA, we had to make our own decisions concerning our safety during COVID-19 because listening to incompetent politicians fighting with the medical experts became tiresome on whether to wear one or not.
    Our masks have a pouch sewn in that we slide in a folded coffee filter to limit air flow. We did our own tests trying to blow out a candle and it works for us.
    Is it the answer to all of the COVID-19 BS, not at all.
     
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  14. Mowgli T.

    Mowgli T. G&G Evangelist

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    These politicians are the type of person who is known as a"child of chaos" in some circles. One of the prime offenders could only see keeping the school closed as hurting his candidacy.
     
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  15. mitchr

    mitchr G&G Evangelist

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    Well, even if the mask were 100% perfect as protection, I have a beard so it'd no longer be 100% anyway. I just figure sumthin is better'n nuthin.:p

    The first thing I do after I've loaded the groceries in the car & get in, is use hand sanitizer on hands, face, mask, then remove mask & apply it to my beard.
     
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  16. Rave

    Rave G&G Evangelist

    I'm gonna wear a mask when I dam well want to and every one else can do what they want,period. :rolleyes:
     
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  17. Kellen

    Kellen G&G Evangelist

    You wont believe this news out of Tumwater, Washington (about 100 miles north of Portland)....
    https://www.king5.com/article/news/...mask/281-218e47af-d8db-4e3b-901e-dcde10b85dcc
    Really? Pulling a gun on someone over a mask?
    I think a person who walks up to a stranger and tells them they need to wear a mask is a real A-hole. As if they're the self-appointed nanny state hallway monitor over the rest of the world. Screw 'em.
    But for crying out loud, pulling a gun on that nanny-watch A-hole is just about as idiotic as it gets. I can't imagine a Gun 'n Gamer being so dumb as to point a gun at someone because they complained about not wearing a mask.
    I guarantee this dufus is going to (1) lose his concealed carry privilege, (2) have his sidearm confiscated by police, and (3) have all other firearms in his home removed by judge's order.
    Dumb.
     
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  18. TXplt

    TXplt Gun Toting Boeing Driver Forum Contributor

    Whether or someone wears a mask is up to them. There is no 'science' with the WuFlu that indicates that masks worn by the general public (in the fashion worn by the general public) do or do not affect spread. The CDC, WHO, and all the other 'experts' have waffled on this several times and have not given credible information (to be fair there isn't and wasn't data ON what to do so they've been dwelling in 'don't know land' shooting in the dark). At best, it's a 'feel good' ritual to someone make someone feel like they're doing something in the war on WuFlu even if it's a trivial and meaningless gesture. Kinda like TSA lines. But pervading all aspects of life with little ability to avoid them in the course of day to day life. A mad social scientist could not have planned this better.

    Wearing a mask has a definite opportunity cost. It's dehumanizing, makes people into faceless drones, prevents seeing expressions (which are an important part of being human) and create an aseptic culture (as well as being simply uncomfortable). An extension of meaningless lines and arrows in stores (transforming our entire country into a prison-like atmosphere). A form of subjugation. It's almost Orwellian in its nature. I cannot fathom the later life issues that might be created by day care workers wearing masks and separating young kids during their formative years. Scary faceless creatures without the warmth and tenderness of childhood.

    Medically, the jury will be out. Quality masks properly fit and disposed following use of MIGHT help with spread. But the common re-use of masks (or cloth coverings) acts as a haven for WuFlu and just about every OTHER pathogen to breed (how many doctors re-use their disposable surgical masks ?). So we're probably worse off by using face coverings over and over which breed pathogens feeding on the debris and fertile warm moist breeding grounds of reused masks and cloth coverings. I guess you could spray them with isopropanol after use, but this has its own problems. And I really doubt the general public will be regularly sanitizing their masks. So we get MORE pathogens spread out by giving them a place to enthusiastically breed rather than get them out into a more hostile environment for pathogens.

    The entire issue has become political with Karens and Kathys using THEIR version of 'science' to shame others in self-righteous arrogance backed by their favorite version of NPR and MSNBC. Becoming sub-drones in the marxist enforcement structure and relishing their position. Not to mention various self-righteous politicians and 'journalists' using it as a football to further their trump hater position. Most ALL of these propaganda media types have been completely hypocritical on THEIR position of social hygiene, with the very 'scientists' who constructed the models ignoring masks and quarantines so they can hook up with their mistresses. Or are caught out in the street after bleating the mask on stay at home communist party line to the commoners. It's being used as a club to bash the current administration and attempt to turn public opinion against them.

    So we've gotten away from the public health arena and totally into the communist arena. Totally nuts.

    Like I've been saying; if wearing a mask is good and right for you have at it and that's great. But COERCION of any kind to do so is wrong from every perspective. It's a statist paradigm of false forced simultaneous consumption and is being used to have us go fully nuts and fully communist. It's time to stop blindly trusting people who have a woeful track record of being the LAST types of people one should trust with any important decision in ones' life.
     
    Last edited: Jul 19, 2020
  19. Get Out

    Get Out G&G Evangelist

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    Could care less anymore what other people do that doesn't directly affect me. Anytime I encounter anyone without a mask in a store just give them extra space and stay away from them.
    It won't be long before someone pulls a gun out hoping to intimidate and gets a surprise when the other guy pulls one too and starts shooting.
     
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  20. savage12755a

    savage12755a G&G Evangelist

    Ok. The masks are effective at stopping the bloody virus. How is my not wearing a mask hazardous to you wearing one? Kinda like the bloody vaccines. If they are effective and you had the shot, how is my not getting the shot hazardous to you?