Masks don't work – SAYS SCIENCE

Discussion in 'Political/Religious Topics' started by K75RT, Nov 18, 2020.

  1. billy

    billy G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    Now that I have COVID
    I wear the hell out of a mask if I have to be around folks
    I don’t want to make folks sick!
     
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  2. BigEd63

    BigEd63 G&G Evangelist

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    I haven't not one bit. I've seen this as too much of a benefit to the Communists and other control of freaks here to ever forget that.
    Including massive voter fraud and behavior modification.
    Oh and it's modified my behavior alright.
    I'm regressing back to the attitude I had in my youth about Commie control freak laws and their pimps in and out of government.
     
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  3. TXplt

    TXplt Gun Toting Boeing Driver Forum Contributor

    When you take an honest, data based approach to it and go into the weeds with technical data it becomes a question of credibility.

    If, based on the research I've done, wearing a mask did any good (and didn't have significant drawbacks), I'd be more than happy to wear one. You can't tell a population "ya gotta mask up until the end of time--it's SCIENCE" without scientific evidence, so my mind immediately goes to 'why would someone take this position ?' And then it gets into the Orwellian aspect of subjugation and dehumanization.

    When you look at the chain of events, Faucci (and the original position of mask use by the general public having little value) stated that they really wouldn't do anything but "perhaps catch a few droplets, etc." I suspect this was closer to the truth than anything else. But there was then a reversal (by the same person and agency) which advocated a draconian everyone mask up all the time policy. And the answer provided wasn't exactly acceptable ("well, we had to lie to you the first time so that there wasn't a run on masks" ...... mmmmm OK.....so how do I know you're not lying to me now ?). Nor do we see the 'rulers' of those making the policy and stressing enforcement complying with ANY of their own policies (they don't walk the walk except when a camera is on them).

    So I got down into the weeds a little bit with studies of general public mask use with coronaviruses/influenzas and away from the sound bytes.

    Surgical N95-type respirators filter down to 0.3 micron, are fitted for seal, and would be effective in blocking most pathogen colonies and some aerosols. SARS CoV-2 is an enveloped virus with approximate size of 0.1 micron, so it can still pass through an N95, but the N95 is able to trap the larger aerosols on which the virus would travel so would have SOME effectiveness--especially if these larger droplets lay in the micron range.

    Surgical masks are used mostly to prevent large droplet contamination.

    All well and good. So if you have a respirator or surgical mask with good seal you can be effective in stopping SOME of the corona emissions. Coughing particles vary in size but 1 micron is usually used as an approximation/best guess. For sneezing, these are approximated in 100 micron (they're all over the place but the number is used as a best guess). So N95's properly sealed would provide some protection.

    BUT WHAT HAPPENS NEXT ?

    Well, these droplets remain in the mask. To be aerosolized later. In a clinical environment they're disposed of as medical waste (as part of a complete sterile surgical ensemble). The key point being that coronas are still emitted (albeit as finer aerosolized particles) but the disposal usually occurs before there's significant pathogen growth. There are also efforts in air sterilization/envrionmental sanitization going on in a clinical environment to attempt to control emitted pathogens in a controlled setting.

    A setting you won't see anywhere else when out in the real world.

    I don't see ANYONE around in public with surgical N95's with a properly fitted seal. More like some well used cloth type of device passing aerosols greater than 5 microns. Now, if these masks are routinely sterilized by a careful individual they might have some value (there was a clinical cloth mask study done that showed roughly a 400% increase in an array of pathogens for unsterilized masks that I looked at while if it was double layer and routinely sterilized showed a decrease in pathogen and particulate emission down to around 1 micron).

    During H1N1 there were a variety of studies done; most of these pointed to masks having SOME value if taken as a part of a complete hygiene regimen and people were conscientious in disposing or sterilizing of masks. But the differences between control and subject groups wasn't particularly striking (around 8-10%). And they were done amongst test groups which were completely following a sanitization protocol (which does NOT happen in the US).

    So the results aren't hugely significant in preventing the transmission of small viruses like corona. And can actually make things worse (particularly if the masks aren't routinely sanitized or if the masks are routinely touched--which we all do--and then other surfaces are touched following this--both by mask to surface and surface to mask transmission. For WHATEVER happens to get onto the mask to later grow; whether that's corona, bacteria, or anything else that likes a warm wet environment devoid of natural toxins). You basically wind up with a pathogen growth media turning big droplets into smaller droplets right next to your face (fed with warmth and water vapor from you). You may not project spittle quite as far, but you do aerosolize virus and bacteria colonies (basically turning big droplets into little droplets--the little droplets still being quite large compared to the size of the virus and into the micron range depending on what you're wearing--and traveling farther than they normally would because you're diffusing them across a membrane by adding energy to get them through the membrane. If you're like me you ALSO get vertical flow patterns up and past the eyes and then forward--rather than down from the nose--with increased velocity right past a suspected transmission source).

    I suspect Faucci (and the CDC's) original position to be closer to the truth. Best case you're giving someone a false sense of security (kinda like the TSA). But it's never OK to lie. And it's gone into this Orwellian paradigm and been politicized to who-knows-what end.

    The numbers so far bear this out; there's widespread mask use (like in the 80s or more percent) yet corona numbers climb unabated. What we've done really hasn't worked other than through natural immunities developing (and has prevented natural mutations and immunities to develop right as we head back into cold/flu season--something that would have been better to have happened during the summer). To think that if there's MORE widespread mask use (when it's already pretty high in most places) solving the issue to me is insanity. It indicates what we've known all along; absent strong isolation (which can't happen in a market economy--except perhaps a few small pockets of people--and by certain people self-isolating if they so choose) you're dealing with an uncontrollable situation. Which you kind of need to accept and let immunities develop while this thing washes through a population. Yep....there's a vaccine and that's great. But when will it be distributed across the general population ? And if you need to be re-vaccinated every few months how in heavens name are we going to generate those numbers of vaccines ? But even MORE importantly what happens when the NEXT mutation comes along ? We've already done huge damage to our economies by shutting things down and THIS flu isn't the only one out there without a vaccine. We've inhibited natural immunities while doing harm which to me doesn't seem like the right thing to do; only destroyed sectors of the economy, blown lots of cash, and let this thing serve as a vehicle for Orwellian communism.

    The main reason I don't wear a mask is I feel like I'm enabling bad behavior -- helping someone lie to themselves that MY mask does THEM some good which it doesn't do (long term mask use for me involves frequent touching of it and I don't regularly sanitize it if at all--I suspect many of us fall into the same category). If MY use of a mask somehow makes THEM feel better, I'm effectively lying to them which I don't like to do. Better to address their own fears and deal with a difficult situation.

    Likewise, when I enter an establishment that's private property, I have no way of knowing if THEY want me to wear one, or it's SOMEONE ELSE telling them they have to tell me to wear one. What I see as a practical test of this is if an employee tells me to wear a mask or get out, I do just that (wear a mask or get out).

    IF the idea was really compelling, people would WANT to do it rather than being TOLD to do so. And if a person is a mask kinda gal or guy more power to them and I hope it's providing a degree of comfort for them (these folks are more likely to maintain it well anyway). But when we start TELLING people they gotta do stuff, and chanting it over and over, then I think we've gotten away from science completely. Especially when those doing the telling don't walk the walk themselves.
     
    Last edited: Nov 21, 2020
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  4. billy

    billy G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    Surgeons wear em to keep opened up people safer when under the knife
    That’s good enough for me.
     
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  6. Jay

    Jay Old man, No tact... Staff Member

    Your bank will have a notary that in effect, works for you...
     
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  7. rangerjd

    rangerjd G&G Evangelist

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  8. Bakingsoda

    Bakingsoda G&G Regular

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  9. MosinRuger

    MosinRuger G&G Evangelist

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    IF you have a mask on!
     
  10. Get Out

    Get Out G&G Evangelist

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    Wife and I wear a mask when we're out and about in public. We steer clear of those that choose not to wear one and it works for us.
     
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  11. billy

    billy G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    You’d hate it here
    Forget gunstores,food ,banks or hardware stores
    No mask
    No service
     
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  12. CountryBoy

    CountryBoy G&G Evangelist

    I just think it should be a choice. I don’t do good with being told I will something. I’m just not wired that way. My dad and I were discussing HOA’s (Home Owners Associations) earlier and it falls into that category somewhat also. Luckily I don’t live where there is a HOA.
     
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  13. Rocky7

    Rocky7 G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

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    Maybe people who have Kung FLu should wear a plastic bag over their head? After 2.5 minutes, guaranteed not to spread it. Ever.
     
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  14. mitchr

    mitchr G&G Evangelist

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    Maybe get bit notarized by the teller at the drive through? I don't think they require a mask there.
     
  15. MosinRuger

    MosinRuger G&G Evangelist

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    I totally agree, you as an individual should( and do) have the ability to decide if your going to mask up or not.

    likewise business owners should be able to decide if they want to allow customers in with or without masks, however they are mandated by the local / state govts to ensure that their customers are wearing masks, or else have their business licenses revoked. so you cant really blame the business owner for not doing business with maskless individuals.. they cant make you wear one, but that doenst mean that they have to do ( or legally can) business with you either.

    im not arguing for or against either side, more or less just stating the obvious lol...
     
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  16. MosinRuger

    MosinRuger G&G Evangelist

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    My point was, It doesnt matter if your a member or not, they are going to do what the govt tells them they have to do, right or wrong, its not worth it to them to "take a stand".
     
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  17. BigEd63

    BigEd63 G&G Evangelist

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    Except we may have one for VP.
     
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  18. BigEd63

    BigEd63 G&G Evangelist

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    And that's another peeve of mine.
    The unter mench must have der papers from der state to operate der business.:rolleyes: download (4).jpeg
     
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