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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I have been searching for any information on a "Liliput" KAL. 7,65 Model 1925 pistol. It's stamped with a crown N. I believe this gun has been bored from a 6.35 to a 7.65. I have pictures of it with the stamping marks over the 6.35. I would love to find someone in the state of Iowa that could appraise this gun and more importantly give me any information on it. I've spent years attempting to track down its origins. I did have a gentlemen tell me once that some of the higher class Nazis had them bored to .32 and restamped, but I know no truths about this gun.

Thanks,
Jrod88
 

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Wow, that looks pretty neat & welcome to G&G from the high desert of Southwest Idaho :) . Believe it or not I think I actually seen one of these that someone from our local gun Grapevine had, unfortunately I don't know anything about it other than I think it may be one of the oddball firearms that was made by one of the small Firearms makers in Germany at the time. It could also have been made by one of the small Firearms makers that was taken over, occupied and forced to make firearms for the Germans as well .
 

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God, Guns, Glory
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Welcome to G&G from Alaska.
 

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Moved to a more relevant forum....... I think :confused:

If someone knows a better forum for this thread, please let me know, and I'll move the thread. I have absolutely no knowledge of this firearm.
 
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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Hey thanks guys for the reply. I have no idea who to even reach out to on this gun. I found an article about the Liliput in a book titled "Pistols of the world Ed 3"

This article is taken from above mentioned book:
Page 155

Liliput: This pistol went on sale in 1920, the first version being a tiny blowback automatic in 4·25mm calibre. The cartridge had originated with the Erika (q.v.), made by Pfannl prior to 1914; Menz adopted it to keep his pistol as small as possible. Although firing a cartridge which was far from common, the Menz Liliput appears to have had a lengthy production life: specimens engraved MODELL 1927 are common. Nevertheless, Menz was sensible enough to see that the Liliput would be more popular in well-known calibre, in 1925 offering a 6·35mm Auto version. A handful was eventually made in 7·65mm Auto, but this version is rare.


Liliput: Maker: August Menz, Suhl. Type: automatic pistol (blowback). Calibre: 4·25mm. Length
overall: 3·46in/88mm. Weight, unladen: 7·9oz/225gm. Barrel: 1·73in/44mm, rifled. Magazine: six-round detachable box.

It's not much info but does state some of the 1925 models were moved to 7.65. Does anyone in the midwest know of any appraisers specializing in a gun like this? I am at the point where I'll pay to know more about this gun.

Thanks
Jrod88
 

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I have seen a small handful of these Oddball really early European handguns from really small rarely heard of manufacturersmanufacturers , but the name menz does sound familiar , however I don't remember what models they were because they weren't common handguns. What I do remember is that it seems like they were intended more as novelty type Gallery guns and never intended to handle full power loads. Just to be safe I recommend treating it as a gallery gun if you ever plan on firing it if you ever find or have some ammo made for it.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Hey GSbuick, the 7.65 is a .32 ACP and the gun actually handles very well. Cycles very fast with no issues, and has never had a jam up. I've been very happy with it, hence the reason why I would like to find some more information out about it.
 

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I'm glad you got a good one because I know that a lot of these oddball usually gallery type guns were never intended for full power loads. They may look alright on the outside and feel ok but they're mostly pot metal and stuff on the inside and it's only a matter of time before you have catastrophic failure from a full power round in them. You may want to have it inspected by your favorite gunsmith inside and out just to make sure everything is up to Snuff so you don't end up with any surprises later.

You may also want to keep an eye on the extractor and ejector depending on me design and consider limiting shooting it because you don't want a part to break that you'll probably never be able to replace short of having new parts made for it
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Oh yes, I actually have no intentions of ever shooting the gun again. I just wanted to feel what it was like to shoot a gun in 1925ish. I have the original holsters that the P38 and lilput came in, so when I opened the buckle and pulled the guns you could actually smell that era, the oils and leather. I was diagnosed with MS which attacked the nerves in my eyes, so I cannot shoot anymore regardless. I care more about the history, vs actually shooting now a days.
 
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