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Military Semi Autos

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by BattleRifleG3, Apr 5, 2002.

  1. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Semi autos seemed to have a short run of military service in between bolt action and select fire rifles, and I thought it would be nice to try and identify them all. Here's what I know (or think I know, correct me if I'm wrong):

    1941 Johnson, US- recoil operated .30-06, internal magazine; Questions: How does it load, and where are the rounds stored? Was it issued at all, and if so, when and where was it used?

    M1 Garand, US- .30-06, gas operated, feeds through 8 shot clip held in an internal magazine and ejected after the last shot; saw service in WWII, Korea, and early in Vietnam in sniper applications; Question: When was it introduced, and when was it adopted as the US service rifle?

    M1 Carbine, US- .30 Carbine caliber, feeds from 15 and 30 round detachable magazine, similar operating system to the M1 Garand, adapted to full auto as the M2 and M3 carbines; Question: Where and when was it introduced, and how long did they continue to use it? I know a guy who carried one in Vietnam.

    Tokarev SVT (40?), Russia- gas operated, chambered in 7.62x54mm, feeds from 10 round box magazine; Saw service in WWII if I'm not mistaken.

    Samozaryadnia Karabina Simonova (SKS), Russia- 7.62x39mm gas operated, uses fixed magazine fed through stripper clips; introduced in WWII, later mass produced as the Cold War began, then was replaced by the AK-47. Question: Where and when was it first used?

    G Forty something- German 8mm gas operated rifle designed to serve the same purpose as the M1 Garand, but appeared too late in the war to make a difference; very rare; I saw one at a gun show for $450... why, you ask? Because it had been converted to a manual operation. IDIOT!!! Could have been worth thousands...

    Ljundman, Sweden- gas operated 6.5mm Swede Mauser; Question: everything else about this rifle

    Hakim, Egypt- 7.92x57mm (hotter 8mm Mauser), based on the Ljundman

    Rashid, Egypt- 7.62x39mm, based on the Ljundman

    Czech 52- 7.62x45 Czech, 7.62x39mm Soviet; Question: does anyone have one? I saw one once for $250.

    Mas 49/56, France- 7.5mm French, gas operated, saw service until the 80s, 10 round detachable mag; some have been converted to .308 Win by Century Arms with criticism.

    Did I forget any?
     
  2. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Oh yeah, the FN-49, chambered in 8mm, .308, .30-06, 7.65mm Argentine, any others?
     

  3. vodkazombie

    vodkazombie G&G Newbie

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    How about the M1903 Pedersen Device conversion? Neat little toy! Converted the '03 Springfield to fire a .30 cal semi-auto cartridge? Then of course, we have the SVT-38, the fore-runner of the SVT-40 Tokarev Rifle. Then there is the BM-59, the "italian garand".

    The Spanish Destroyer Carbine, in 9mm Largo.

    I'm braindead at the moment.

    VZ
     
  4. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    That's right, I've read about the Pederson device. Any info on the ballistics of that smaller cartridge?
    I've heard of the Destroyer, but never saw pictures of one. Any links to more info?
    And when did the BM59 come in? I had the impression it was select fire, more like the M14, and chambered in .308. Though I do remember seeing ads saying the BM59 stocks will work with the Garand.
     
  5. Hans R Colt

    Hans R Colt G&G Newbie

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    Military Semi-Autos

    In WWI, the French fielded in small trial qualities what was informally called the St.Etienne rifle, named after the factory that also made the MAS 36 and MAS 44/49. It was a semi-auto as well, but the operating rod was located on the outside of the receiver, one of its many design flaws. It's official name is the Fusil Mitrailleur RSC(Ribeyrolle, Sutter, Chauchat, the designers). This was in 1917.

    The Ethiopian army also fielded as a general issue weapon to the royal guard a semi-auto rifle from CZ called the ZH 29. It used a gas piston operating system that CZ and Enfield designers put into the Bren machine gun. This was issued in the late 1920's.

    Let's not forget that Mauser-made a semi-auto issued to aircraft observers and balloon crews called the Flieger-Selbstladekarabiner Modell 15 during WWI.
     
  6. Hans R Colt

    Hans R Colt G&G Newbie

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    Military Semi-Autos

    As an aside, the Danish gun inventor Soren Bang(Really!) designed a semi-auto rifle where he took Hiram Maxim's idea of tapping off some of a rifle's muzzle blast and using it to actuate a cylindrical piston(a hollow metal tube that slid back and forth over a barrel like a sleeve) in the 1920's. The design lived on in the WWII Gewehr 41 and 42, and after the war, the Czechs modified it slightly and used it in the VZ-52 rifle.

    John Garand took the general idea of tapping the gas at the muzzle and used it in the M1 Garand.

    As the more experienced of you know, the gas impulse from muzzle blast is very intense, and hard to control from bullet to bullet with great certainty, and causes a lot of parts breakage...I'd like to know the genius who thought of tapping the gas further away from the muzzle and closer to the chamber where the gas impulse was not so violent...
     
  7. Klaus

    Klaus G&G Newbie

    I seem to recall that some governments also issued long barreled and stocked .30 cal Mauser broomhadle "rifles".
     
  8. Hans R Colt

    Hans R Colt G&G Newbie

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    Klaus, I've read somewhere that the Bohemians did issue C96's in that fashion; I've also read that the Nationalist Chinese Army(i.e. Warlords) used their Xiangtze/Shansi "Boxed Cannon" copy of the C96 in .45 acp as "small assault rifles" with the shoulder stocks affixed against the Japanese.

    I've also read that C96's will sometimes eject a case where the primer has been struck and the cartridge ignites in midair in front of the shooter's face; this seems to happen only to the Schnellfeuers and the Shansi's...Yikes!
     
  9. 45 SHANSI

    GOT A 45 SHANSI IN MY COLLECTION. IMPRESSIVE BUT I WOULD NOT FIRE IT
    DANA
     
  10. Hans R Colt

    Hans R Colt G&G Newbie

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    Even if it's just for looking at, still quite an impressive addition to any collection!