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More Americans Killed By Guns Than By War In The 20th Century

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by Doglips, Jul 21, 2002.

  1. Doglips

    Doglips G&G Newbie

    I decided to compare what Sara Brady and her fuzzly little friends use as Stats and compare it to the Dr/Hospital deaths CNN used in the artical I posted.... Ill post the entire artical from the HCI website....REMBER I DID NOT TYPE the artical...nore run the numbers for them.... Ill post it to show what they say and to show were I got THEIR #...then useing my handy pocket calculater lets compare Handguns VS Hospitals

    (One could argue that "Infection" deaths should not count as shooting deaths but there is no way to sort out DR caused deaths from being shoot from bullet caused deaths)

    CNN # (Part of artical cut/pasted below) Hospitla Deaths: About 103,000 deaths were linked to hospital infections in 2000

    BRADY REPORTED FIREARM CAUSED DEATHS: TABLE 2 Gun Deaths from 1979 to 1997v Total 651,697 Or most recent year per them 1997 32,166

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    Doglips Math

    Guns in 1997=32,166 Hospitals=103,000 HOSPITALS WIN they KILLED 70,834 more people than firearms.

    1979-1997 Brady says 651,697 CNN (18 yrs X 103,000) = 1,854,000 or 1854000-651697= 1,202,303 Dang Hospitals win again.

    Hummm ok lets take this # "1.4 Million Known American Firearms Casualties Since 1933"

    Thats 66 years..this artical stoped at 1999...whelp since ther numbers are a little questionable....but we are being FAIR lets USE CNN's # 6798000 (103,000 x 66 years) Hospitals win AGAIN BY 5,398,000 more deaths.

    Did not see it in this artical but guns "Kill" what is it like 9 people a day...Hospitals kill (103,000 / 365) 282.19 per day or 273 more people a DAY than guns...per # provided by HCI.

    PLEASE FEEL FREE TO ???? and CORRECT ANY OF MY # and MATH.

    ***************************************************
    DOGLIPS RESPONSE:
    We as intelagent, responsable citizens can not sit here and not act. We must stop the needless deaths caused by Drs and Hospitals. I call for a 10 day waiting (And washing period) before a hospital worker tuches a patint...that the goverment BAN Hi-Capacity hospitles, Assult Style Hospitals, and of cousre ANY medical procedures being done on a SATURDAY NIGHT SPECIAL bases. I for one will refuse to pay my medical bills untill HOSPITALS and DRs stop the sensless acts of violance and killing that they commit!!!! ALSO I plan to introduce a new line of Ammunition.....the add will be "Almost as deadly as your hopital". And lets not forget that Not washing hands by Drs can now be used to stop the debate of 9mm vs 45acp stoping power. Finaly IF A DR ask you if you own guns...I belive we have every right to hold them at gunpoint until THEY wash THEIR HANDS before they touch us....failure for them to do so is an act of deadly force.
    ***************************************************
    CNN NUMBERS:

    CHICAGO, Illinois (AP) -- About 103,000 deaths were linked to hospital infections in 2000 -- a figure 14 percent higher than government estimates -- and nearly 75 percent of the deaths were preventable, the Chicago Tribune reported.

    The national Centers for Disease Control and Prevention last year calculated 90,000 deaths in 2000 were linked to hospital infections, the fourth leading cause of death in the United States behind heart disease, cancer and strokes.

    Many of the deaths were caused by unsanitary facilities, germ-laden instruments and unwashed hands, the newspaper said in early Sunday editions distributed Saturday

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    STOP STOP STOP STOP
    This will only make you mad...the numbers are so made up that Enron accounts use this as a modle.....READ THIS AT YOUR OWN RISK!!!! Doglips takes not responability for the information contained below :)

    MORE AMERICANS KILLED BY GUNS THAN BY WAR IN THE 20TH CENTURY

    1.4 Million Known American Firearms Casualties Since 1933


    (Washington, DC) Although the exact number of Americans killed by gun violence in the 20th century will never be known, it is now all but certain that it will, by any measure, vastly exceed the number of Americans shot and killed on battlefields since 1900. In fact, more Americans were killed with guns in the 18-year period between 1979 and 1997 (651,697), than were killed in battle in all wars since 1775 (650,858). And while a sharp drop in gun homicides has contributed to a decline in overall gun deaths since 1993, the 90's will likely exceed the death toll of the 1980s (327,173) and end up being the deadliest decade of the century. By the end of the 1990s, an estimated 350,000 Americans will have been killed in non-military-related firearm incidents during the decade.*
    Statistics on total U.S. gun deaths (including suicides and unintentional shootings), as compiled by the National Center for Health Statistics, have only been collected since 1979. But between 1979 and 1997, 651,697 Americans lost their lives to gun violence, including 334,870 suicides, 278,865 homicides, 28,964 unintentional shootings, and 8,998 from unknown causes.

    National statistics on gun homicides have been collected since 1933. Between 1933 and 1997, 591,528 Americans were murdered with firearms. Even the number of gun homicides since 1933, taken by itself, exceeds the total number of Americans killed on the battlefield during this century. In 1933, the first year for which national statistics are available, 7,863 Americans were murdered with guns. While we will never know the exact number of people murdered with firearms in this century, the total would likely approach 1.5 million.

    National statistics on unintentional shootings are available for every year from 1965 through 1998 and for selected years going back to 1933. The number of people unintentionally shot and killed every year has declined sharply over the past several decades. According to the U.S. National Center for Health Statistics (and its predecessor agencies) there were 3,014 fatal gun "accidents" in 1933, compared to 1,225 in 1995. Some experts caution, however, that the decline in "accidents" may not be as sharp as it appears, as earlier in this century many suicides were reported as "accidents."**

    Totaling together the number for which national statistics are available, at least 1,417,902 Americans were killed from gun homicides, suicides, unintentional shootings and unknown causes in the last 67 years. The actual total for the century, however, given the large number of years for which no or limited information was reported, may be more than triple the number of Americans killed in battle.

    "The 20th Century was truly the American Century," noted Sarah Brady, "and our nation has much to be proud of as it looks back at that past 100 years. But the level of gun violence was and remains at horribly unacceptable levels. As we look to a new century and a new millennium, we should renew our fight against this deadly epidemic. Too many Americans have paid the ultimate price for our failure to enact sensible gun laws and educate Americans about the dangers of firearms."

    "Throughout our nation's history, Congress has sent American men and women abroad to fight warsÊ-Êand dieÊ-Êto uphold American principles and to end world injustices. But this Congress has refused to fight another important battle here at home: the fight against gun violence in America. Instead of 'declaring war' on gun violence and passing stronger laws to help keep guns out of the hands of criminals and children, Congress has surrendered to the special interests of the National Rifle Association and the gun lobby," said Mrs. Brady.

    "Since Congress refuses to pass tougher gun control laws to better protect American families, sadly, many Americans face more danger in the streets of their communities than our now-volunteer armed forces face on an average day," said Mrs. Brady. "Events just in the last two years demonstrate that schoolchildren, online brokers, Xerox repair workers and even small toddlers at day care centers can face the same threat our soldiers are trained to defeat."

    * Because gun death rates are only available through 1997, the figure for the number gun deaths in the 1990s (350,000) was calculated by assuming a consistent 6% decrease in the gun death rate and assuming a 1% increase in population each year. The data for the years 1998 and 1999 were estimated to be 30,527 deaths in 1998 and 28,976 in 1999. So far in the 1990s, over 290,000 Americans were killed with firearms.
    Ê
    ** Source: Kleck, Gary. Targeting GunsÊ-ÊFirearms and their Control. Aldine De Gruyter, Inc. New York, 1997.








    Deaths in War vs. Gun Deaths

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    TABLE 1 Wars of the United Statesi

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    War Yearii Battle Deathsiii

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    Revolutionary War 1775-1783 4,435
    War of 1812 1812-1915 2,260
    Mexican War 1846-1848 1,733
    Civil War 1861-1865 140,414 (Union Forces)
    Ê Ê 74,524 (Confederate Forces) iv
    Spanish-American War 1898 385
    World War I 1917-1918 53,513
    World War II 1941-1946 292,131
    Korean War 1950-1953 33,651
    Vietnam War 1961-1977 47,369
    Lebanon 1982-1984 264
    Grenada 1983 18
    Panama 1989-1990 23
    Persian Gulf War 1991 148

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Total Ê 650,858


    TABLE 2 Gun Deaths from 1979 to 1997v

    Year Deathsvi

    1979 32,689
    1980 33,477
    1981 33,778
    1982 32,682
    1983 30,842
    1984 31,078
    1985 31,324
    1986 33,126
    1987 32,638
    1988 33,757
    1989 34,471
    1990 36,866
    1991 38,077
    1992 37,474
    1993 39,358
    1994 38,187
    1995 35,957
    1996 33,750
    1997 32,166

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Total 651,697
     
  2. Stopper

    Stopper G&G Newbie

    8998 from "unknown causes" ? OK, then why lump them in with firearm deaths?

    Their numbers are as real as WorldCom's/Enron's!!

    Besides, 30,000 gun deaths vs. 90,000 hospital "infection" deaths!?!?!?! Doesn't take a rocket scientist - and I'm as far from one as you can get!

    BS propaganda!! It's all they're about and it's all they got!!
     

  3. Doglips

    Doglips G&G Newbie

    The unknown causes could be that they cut them selfs cleaning their gun and the hospital infection killed them.,.to Sara and them still gun realted....
     
  4. The whole concept is seriously skewed. "More killed by guns than war?"

    "@#$%, Sir! The Jerrys are throwing explosive fruit again!"
     
  5. The Sky is Falling !!! The Sky is Falling !!!
    Didn't Sara just buy a 30-06 rifle for her son last christmas? Was it a sniper rifle.
     
  6. Big Dog

    Big Dog Retired IT Dinosaur Wrangler Forum Contributor

    So, far more people are killed in automobile related deaths than by guns. Add in the number of people killed by electrocution, poisoning, drowning, and those horrible couch and bathtub-related deaths, and the world becomes a very deadly place.
    No mention of the four thousand non-gun-related deaths in New York in September of 2001.
    The antis love to use meaningless statistics to further their agenda. If the apples don't equal the oranges, then the banana's must be evil.
     
  7. Well, one day they will outlaw EVERYTHING that kills.....then we can stick our heads up our behinds and kiss this world good bye.

    But as far as comparisons....I'm sure they aren't gonna outlaw vehicles....Doctors...dangerous chemicals and the like. Though they are really close to phasing out tobacco...my beer will probably be next.
     
  8. Indy

    Indy G&G Newbie

    If you read D. Hackworth's book "About Face", from his analysis during the Vietnam war approximately 15 to 20 % of the death was due to friendly fire. It would be fair to deduct that number from the firearm deaths.
    Indy
     
  9. Gyrene

    Gyrene G&G Newbie

    886
    0
    CA
    According to what I remember from reading historical data about the "War Between The States" (OK the Yankees call it "The Civil War"; but there is nothing civil about war!); there were more than a million casualties for the Yankees, and near 500,000 killed, while the South had about 300,000 casualties and about 165,000 killed (a ratio of about 3:1 (North vs South)). The numbers that they showed above were somewhere around 140,000 Yankees and 75,000 for the South (a ratio of about 2:1 (North vs South)) , and I know it was about 3:1). Something doesn't smell right!!!! They had better go back and check their numbers again!

    The attrition rate was about 3 to 1 in favor of the South, but the North had so many more people that the North would have still had plenty of people when the last southerner would have been killed. One of the reasons for the higher attrition rate for the North, was that Southern boys were accustomed to using firearms, and hunting, and the Yankees were accustomed to fist fighting, and hanging out.
     
    Last edited: Jul 29, 2002
  10. Oxford

    Oxford G&G Evangelist

    Nothing but B.S.

    This is just another example of why you shouldn't believe everything you read. Statistics quoted aren't always accurate resulting in conclusions which are nothing but B.S.

    Oxford::nod:
     
  11. Big Dog

    Big Dog Retired IT Dinosaur Wrangler Forum Contributor

    Oxford's right. Statistically, 60% of all statistics are skewed or false. ;-)