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More Griz Talk- Underpowered guns

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by BattleRifleG3, May 8, 2002.

  1. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    Ok, we've gone through the "how much is enough" for grizzley bears discussion, but...
    What if you're faced with a griz and know your weaponry's underpowered? Yes, non-violent responses are best, but if those don't work and he comes in for the kill, how should you shoot him?
    Examples:
    AK-47/SKS
    AR-15 or varmint rifle
    20ga or 410 shotgun
    45 ACP pistol
    9mm Pistol
     
  2. TKH

    TKH G&G Newbie

    AK-47- should be enough at close range. Shoot for the head!
    AR-15- also should penetrate, shoot a lot at the head!
    20ga or 410. would prefer a slug, if not, I would hope enough pellets would blind him or at least distract him enough to change his mind.
    45- not my choice by a long shot, again shoot for the eyes/head and hope.
    9mm- shoot a lot, pray even more. Would probably consider saving the last round for myself!
     

  3. azeeb

    azeeb G&G Newbie

    I thought you were supposed to shoot just under the head. Grizzlies have a pretty thick skull. Better chances with a spine shot. Just what I've heard, i'm no expert.
     
  4. sadiehn

    sadiehn G&G Newbie

    well for everything other than the shotguns I would put my head between my legs and kiss my backside goodbuy.

    with the shot gun aim for the eyes and try to get two shots off he wont eat you if he cant see you
     
  5. 7mmag6

    7mmag6 G&G Newbie

    6,049
    10
    Well ive shot bear before, never one on a charge, ive seen them charge(past post), when they do, they tend to keep the head elavated, try to hit at the base of the neck, where it meets the torso, this area has no bone in the way, and will make them think twice(or maybe not) who knows
     
  6. Try a shoulder shot to break the joint--he can't catch you if he can't run.
     
  7. sadiehn

    sadiehn G&G Newbie

    :nod: I have seen whitetails that can realy run whith both shoulders busted into little bitty peices
     
  8. Well this is the perscribed method for taking down a Kodiac according to hunting guides in Alaska. Don't see why it wouldn't work on a Grizzly.
     
  9. pappa

    pappa G&G Regular

    Hair raising experience

    Never shot a bear, though I've had run-ins with black bears.
    Run-outs, too. As in RLH, the time a momma black with cubs got ticked off about too much attention in Cades Cove (Tennessee).
    So, I'm a greenhorn, but from what I've read a .22LR is better than buckshot. Evidently the hair matts on the buckshot, preventing any real penetration. I think I would be HA up a tree before I would start trouble with either one of them.
    I can say from experience on other game that a busted shoulder will not stop an animal. If a determined man will drag himself with his arms if he has to, just imagine a PO grizzly that you've busted up both hips on.
    Only four places I'd shoot a grizzly: in the spine, frontal up the neck, frontal through an eye socket ( I wish I WAS that good a shot!), and #4.....from a loooooonnnngggg way off!
    Seriously, from all I have read, only a spine or brain shot will definitely be sure to prevent you being their last meal.
    If I can raise the money, this I want to do at least once in my life.
    :nod: :assult: :nod:
     
  10. TKH

    TKH G&G Newbie

    I've never shot a Grizz, but I did shoot a running black bear through the shoulders with a .338. Didn't quite stop him as well as I would have hoped. Took me about 30 mins of watching his carcas before I could work up the courage to go touch him and see if he was really dead. Even big guns feel small when the critters have teeth and claws. I can't imagine what facing a Grizzly would be like, although I would like to try!!
     
  11. pappa

    pappa G&G Regular

    Is "IT" really dead?!!

    TKH,
    You're not alone in that fear, buddy!
    I've gone to gut a few tuskers and really wondered the same thing at the time. A bear would be a Whole Lot more trouble!
    I don't know if you ever saw it, but there is a video out of a man viciously attacked by a buck he thought was dead. He was gored, pounded, and a whole lot more. The trip to the hospital just ruined his whole day.
    I'm like you, "wait and watch". Nudge with the muzzle and look for signs of life. If I feel that Mr. Murphy has decided to join me that day, and the tusks have that "I've cut a lot of mocassins in-two-recently look", I will use another bullet to the spine. And, yes, one time it proved to be needed.
    Some animals give off an odor once they are wounded, but not yet dead. The odor starts to dissipate once death has occurred.
    Of course if you have a cold that day, Mr. Murphy might decide to send you USC, without a paddle.
    :spaceship
     
  12. Well I believe I could out distance myself from the bear if he couldn't use his front legs. If he was on all fours and charging, how are you going to get a spine shot?
     
  13. pappa

    pappa G&G Regular

    Worst case scenario

    You may be right, Alan, that a spine shot would be difficult with the bear charging straight at you, particularly on flat level ground. Sometimes they lower their head and swing it side-to-side while running. If so, then a head shot would be pure luck.
    The only choices that I see then would be either to breakdown a front shoulder as you say, or if the head were down low enough, to shoot between the shoulders at the base of the skull. Could depend a lot on whether you or the bear were on higher ground.
    I have a sneaking suspicion that there is an experienced grizzly hunter or two out there quietly reading my greenhorn ideas, and maybe chuckling to themselves. But then, they may not all agree, as their experiences may have been different.
    I used to wade fish for bass here in Florida about every other day. I have had to cut my stringer and let the gator have it, with his body against mine and him tugging on the fish. I can't count the number of times I have brushed against them in the grass. Never was attacked by one, though. Other people have just gone swimming and been attacked and killed by them. I think animals can be very different from each other, just like people can be.
    :cool:
     
  14. Hey pappa your fishing story reminded me of one of my own. Years ago my dad and I did a lot of wade fishing at San Luis Pass in Galveston for speckled trout. Man I cannot count the times that there were only heads left on our stringers. Not gators but sand sharks. That's a errie feeling not even knowing they are near you.
    You wouldn't even know when they were feeding on your catch.
    Pappa thanks for the input and the memories of my dad and I.
     
  15. Ayteeone

    Ayteeone G&G Newbie

    33
    0
    BRG3, are you STILL on about grizzlies? What did one ever do to you?

    The hardware you listed is all acceptable for use on the smaller and considerable more dangerous animal of man, but lacks somewhat in the power needed to quickly stop an animal that weighs many time more than we do. The 9mm or .223 might do if you can shoot into a vital soft tissue area, like the throat. Don't expect a quick stop, if it stops at all. The .45's much heavier bullet gives a slightly better chance of breaking shoulders or spine, and although still way underpowered, can be improved with handloads (see Paco's commentary on sixgunner.com). A varmint rifle loaded with the lightweight, thin skinned bullets prefered for that game is only likely to make him madder. The 7.62x39 gives a fighting chance, if you can be cool enough and place shots where it will matter. The use of shotguns I can't speak to... I've not come across anyone who thought it neccesary to carry a shotgun when they were hunting with a rifle, although others have written of it's use on the big, thin skinned cats in Africa. With the thickness of skin, fat and muscle on a grizzly, it makes sense to use slugs as shot would not likely reach anything vital. Properly placed, several 20ga slugs would give a good chance of stopping one... wouldn't want to try stopping a griz with any of these, myself. I carry a Partition loaded .308 in bear country, my Dad is comfortable with his .280 Rem autoloader, again with Partitions. He takes a black about every other year with it, no complaints, including one that took a dislike to him. A bear, any bear, when charging is head down on all fours and FAST... probably nothing handheld is going to reliably stop one immeadiatly.
     
  16. k8cca

    k8cca G&G Newbie

    I was thinking that if 10 rds of 7.62x39 out of the SKS did not work, you could always use the Bayonet. Mano amano. Might work!
     
  17. bottlbob

    bottlbob G&G Newbie

    yikes

    i krapt my pants jes thinkin bout a grizz takin thet last leep at me.
    if i get a shot with my 454 casul, 320 hc fp i wont worry,
    i`ll either hit em or be knocked back 20 feet from the recoil and i can try again. lol lol

    mossberg 590 3 " mag 1 1/4 oz slugs , 4570 w/450 garrett hammerheads, or 454 casul, s redhawk ruger .===any of these would save me a lot of expense (underwear, grunds, etc) when in big bear country.
    i must be gettin old----
     
  18. Indy

    Indy G&G Newbie

    If the choices for shooting bear is as you suggest, I believe the 20 gauge with a slug would be best hope. However, my experience when hunting a big bear is summed up in three words, "three-seventy-five."
    A 375H&H magnum with a 270 to 300 grain bullet is a lot of confidence when facing a charging big bear, especially when your hands are sweating, your leg is quivering, and the hair on the back of your neck is up. A friend who hunts big dangerous game often only uses a 458 Win mag. He has a couple of big bears stuffed in his den.
    Indy