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Discussion in 'Political/Religious Topics' started by K75RT, Sep 19, 2020.
Here a truly peaceful protestor..one who hates the muzzle objects...
So since Ive been in pretty much the exact same scenario recently...
Maryland's republican governor has certain mask requirements for locations like bars, stores restaurants, libraries etc.
We as the police don't really enforce them. We are not going to come arrest or cite you because you dont want to put a mask on.
And on top of that our State's Attorney most likely isnt going to prosceute a governors order violation anyways even if we did charge someone.
That being said... what we WILL still enforce is trespassing/disorderly conduct laws. If you walk into someone else's property thats not your's and that business or establishment has a policy that they want people to wear masks inside and you dont want to go along with it... then you can leave.
Sort of like stores that have the stupid "no guns allowed policies". Its their property, they have the right to make stupid rules on their property and you have the right to not go there and give them your business.
its their property they can do as they want and they can tell you to leave... OR in many cases like a bar or club that has security, their security can use reasonable physical force to remove you. And if the property wants you gone, you gotta go...
So had a call not too long ago where some jackazz went into a local establishment and refused to wear a mask which was the property's policy for employees and customers. Guy refused. They told him to leave... He refused to leave and started being a douchebag and was causing a scene and being disruptive. The establishment called the police.
I show up. I tell him he has to leave. Numbnuts wants to argue with me about how the governors orders are stupid bla bla bla and how I shouldn't be enforcing them.
I tell him I'm not here to enforce the order and nor am I charging him with a violation. I tell him I'm here because he's on property that's not his and the property owners want him to leave which just as if this guy had people he did not want on his property he has the right to kick them out.
Guy is too stupid to understand that and continues to argue with me about the governers order on masks and bla bla bla...
I explain to him several more times I don't care about the mask order and Im just here because he's now trespassing, the property owners want him off their property and he's causing a scene and doing other things (which he was) and was well on his way to a disorderly conduct arrest.
Idiot keeps on digging himself in deeper. It got to the point where other people were stopping to shout at him to stop being stupid and just leave.
My patience ran out after 10-15 minutes of this. Idiot still refused to leave the property and still continued to want to cry about mask orders (again which I dont care about).
I locked him up for trespassing and he got to go sit in jail for the night for being stupid.
Exact same thing would apply to this video. I dont give two craps about mask orders and I think they are stupid too.
But.. if you are on property that's not your's or you want to go cause a scene and interfere with another public function or whatever... it doesn't matter what your gripe is about, masks or high gas prices or whatever it's going to end up the same way.
I would have given this guy several chances to leave and he can go outside and bitch all he wants to me about mask orders and how stupid they are and I'd probably agree with him... but... he needs to get off the property first...
And if not... hes going for Trespassing... and if he keeps making a scene disorderly conduct...
and then when he starts twisting and pulling away and dragging his feet like a two year old having a temper tantrum, congrats... now you have a resisting arrest charge... and then when he grabs the cops uniform shirt like that, congrats again... now that's a second degree assault on me.
Just keep racking up the charges buddy.
He's probably really lucky he didnt get hip tossed right onto the floor at that point or tasered. Because even after the taser comes out after he grabbed the cop he was still fighting them getting him handcuffed right before the video cut off.
If you wanna go protest the mask order, go stand outside the governors or mayors office who made those orders on the state and local level and hold your sign and protest or write letters or call them up and bitch to them, not whatever random private property doing their own thing.
What a jackazz.
Ya....that's kind of the method I've used from the start.
I'm not really a mask kinda guy but will wear them at someone else's house/property on request if I really need to be there (there's a case of a sweet old lady who doesn't want anyone in the house without a mask whom I visit outside but if I go inside at her request I'll wear one; the downside is it does make visits a bit less common).
So I kinda go about business doing my thing. I opt out of the mask game and don't much worry about signs.
If an employee of wherever wants me to wear one or leave I do just that. If I REALLY need something on comes the "KAG" mask. Otherwise I leave. Never much making a scene about anything. For some medical stuff I can't really get it done without so that's that.
TACAV, I get it...but executive orders by Governors are not law. They are politics being played on a chessboard where the democrats are black we are red and they are in Checkmate... Sir, I respect the blue..but your folks have to stand up as well. Constitution is UTMOST. Refuse to enforce bs "laws". We back the blue....we need to keep it that way.
the mask rule is just like the "shirt and shoes required" signs a lot of stores have. the owner of the store can require you to wear purple hats to enter if he wants to. his property, his rules.
And that's exactly why I said we dont enforce "mask orders". if some "Karen" calls 911 and complains that someone is not wearing a mask where the governor's recommendations are, we show up ask the person "hey could you please put a mask on?"
And if the person says go "Go F yourself." as long as they are not on some private venue or whatever we just say "ok cool have a nice day!"
Again we aren't locking people up or writing them tickets for it.
But like I said in my last post, if the person is on someone else's private property or something like that... if the private property who or whoever doesn't want the person there for whatever reason.... we will act on the trespassing angle... because that is an entirely different thing separate from the a silly/stupid mask order. If you don't want someone on your property, the law stands on your side that you can make them leave.
In Ga if a person refused to leave it falls under criminal trespass. Plus they need a reliable witness telling the person to leave. If they come back, it's still criminal trespass. If a jerk tears my police shirt in a scuffle it falls under interference with government property (felony). I've always said its a persons mouth that gets them in trouble.
Well, at least SOMEONE is cashing in on the madness:
Kinda brilliant to kill the small businesses and shops and jump in with mega-Amazon.
Totally agree TAC and MG. It is no different than smoking indoors or using foul language or whatever if the owner does not want you there, and tells you to leave, if you stay you committed a crime. The longer you stay the worse it gets actually, your time is up. Grow up and leave. Period. Has nothing to do with anything else period. If you come to my house for dinner and offend my kids or drink to much or whatever and I want you to leave that is my call, you have zero right to stay, none period. Not your call to force your continued presence there, it is like you kidnapping me in my own home and forcing me to accept your control over my house.
At about 1:36 on the clip I saw resisting arrest or resisting an officer (of course he said they would have to drag him out, pre-meditation to resist or fight or both). At 1:54 I saw the first assault on an officer, he hit the officer in the back.
Simple illegal acts. Does not matter if he is BLM or the opposite, there is never a reason to hit an officer. I do not know where that is at but every place I ever worked, the local DA is going to provide him an opportunity to pay some money to attorneys. And the local judge is going to give him some time. Good DAs always prosecute anybody that hits a cop.
The guy is a big guy, I would have tazed him at the instant he hit the officer in the back.
The guy is big and a coward and here is why. He was in a public place intentionally making an issue with the people who declared him no longer welcome. He has zero right to do that. Then he picks a fight with the cops. IT IS NEVER PEACEFUL WHEN YOU HAVE BEEN PLACED UNDER ARREST AND YOU JERK AN OFFICER OFF BALANCE. IT IS NEVER PEACEFUL WHEN YOU SLAP THE OFFICER ON THE BACK. The guy is a jerk and a coward. The people who control the location are action 100% within their rights. The officers who "asked" him to leave are 100% within their rights. When he told them he was going to use force to prevent them from escorting him out they were 100% within their rights to use reasonable force. And he was 100% wrong to refuse to leave, refusing to comply, and jerking and hitting the officers. The law of the US is pretty simple, zero debate on this issue. To call him a peaceful protester is not even rational. Sorry, not to be rude, but some things in law, are just clear cut. If there is a jury trial the judge will give the jury some simple written instructions like this. 1. Was the Defendant given a lawful command or instruction from the manager to leave the premises? 2. Did the Defendant refuse to leave the premises? 3. Did the officer ask the Defendant to leave the premise?4. Did the Defendant resist the officers who were trying to arrest him? 5. Did the Defendant strike the officer during the period when they were they were trying to handcuff him? IF YOU ANSWER YES TO ALL OF THESE QUESTIONS THE DEFENDANT IS GUILTY OF THE CRIMES OF TRESPASSING, RESISTING ARREST AND ASSAULT ON A POLICE OFFICER AND YOU SHOULD MARK YOU JURY VERDICT FORM AS GUILTY. ....It is not really that short because there would be a separate jury verdict form for each of the the crimes.
And that is the way it is in America. You cannot commit a criminal act to make a political statement, and that is why all those BLM rioters and this guy need to be in the same jail. Just my humble opinion. Opinions vary.
A reasonable sentence would be a $500 fine for trespass. 6 months in jail for resisting arrest and assault on a police officer. But he could get charged 2 times for assaulting 2 officers. Anybody know where this is so we can look it up?
The thing that's skewed the whole dynamic of public/private property rights is that while some places would WANT you to wear a mask, some places are FORCED (by governmental entities) to REQUIRE a mask (or at least put up signs).
The two things aren't the same. Not by any means. One involves a choice by a private property owner; one is COERCION OF a private property owner. The latter being wholly unacceptable. Some businesses have done the wink and nod thing saying the position is forced by government edict. So's I figure if they REALLY WANT folks wearing masks they'll tell them that it's THEIR desire for me to wear one. And then it's mask up or leave.
Kinda like the wackos did with smoking. Rather than an entity deciding for themselves if they were to allow smoking there was a law passed prohibiting it. Now the nanny state has intruded into simply being and breathing.
People look at me as old and grumpy when I do the camels nose rebuff. But it's been validated in spades over the years.
Trying to explain the camel’s nose analogy to an intellectually incapable person is an exercise in futility.
A lot of people just don’t have the cognitive horsepower or the intellectual integrity towing capacity to pull that load.
Was this an actual event or just made for UTube? I cannot read the police department logo and I cannot find any news article anywhere about this event. The more I look at it the more I wonder if it was a staged event. There were multiple people in the room, some with notebooks some with nothing. So, it was not a night class or anything like that. And the guy had nothing but his keys, pretty strange. And an obvious situation after they had wrestled and the officer stepped forward while the smaller officer had the tazer out. he reached forward, they would have tazed him then because he had already fought them a while and looked as if he was reaching for the officer or maybe the taser. . When he moved toward that officer he would have definitely been tazed. Now, here is the big deal, they cut the tape off right there....no one would do that, they would have filmed it and shown it on UTube if they had continued to fight or if if they tazed him or he just agreed to leave. Problem here is they cut it right in the middle of the action, leading you to think something happened. People do not do that, they film it all, so this one has been cut.
Notice the three guys on the back wall in suits? Who are they? Maybe college professors watching students enact a skit on the issue of mask wearing?
So, until I can find an actual jail log somewhere showing where this guy was booked in I am going to call BS on this one. Looks more like a made up scam for UTiube. So, if anybody can just get me the name of he PD or other info I will run it an see if we have been scammed.
When Governor Abbot issued his EO about masks, businesses also started requiring masks, including Walmart. Saw a man in Walmart the other day without a mask & Walmart, nor customers made a big deal of it. Gov. Abbot is on record that his EO is not law & a person can not be arrested/fined.
There was a time when businesses enforced color/race restrictions, and the same anti-trespassing laws were used to enforce them. Was that O.K. as well?
Last I checked mask/non mask wearers aren't a protected class under the discrimination laws.
So again. If its your property, you as the owner can set your rules like no shirt, no shoes, no guns, no mask, no service... and you have the right to kick people off your private property.
Neither were blacks protected before the non-discrimination laws. Did that make it right, then?
So, the "private property" rule you are citing applies when the gubmint wants it to, for THEIR purposes, but when the gubmint violates your private property rights, you have no such right.
There seems to be a resistance to civil liberties being observed, unless some gubmint says to do so. Is that the nation of "Liberty" that we have wrought?
There are laws against discrimination when hiring, promoting, etc, but are there laws against a business refusing service? Not saying it would be morally right, but strictly as a legal matter.
Considering the past several months of lawless activity, I don't feel much persuaded by that argument.
Mask/no mask isn't specifically addressed in either.
It's POSSIBLE you could make it an ADA or racial issue but you'd have to make a coherent point in this direction. Fr' instance, that wearing one brings back flashbacks or aggravates a claustrophobic issue (and you could probably generate enough medical BS to frame this into whatever you wanted to do). THEN you'd have legal protection against the mask nazis in a private business.
Don't remember where I saw it, but was about exemptions from wearing a mask. Had to do with difficulty breathing, etc, but you had to have a doctor's verification. I'm guessing it was in an article posted on this forum, or another one I visit.