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Should people carry a mouse gun?

  • Yes

    Votes: 21 70.0%
  • No

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • As a second gun

    Votes: 11 36.7%
  • If that is all they are willing to carry

    Votes: 9 30.0%
  • If they have recoil issues or other problems with shooting

    Votes: 7 23.3%
  • Never, never, never

    Votes: 0 0.0%
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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
The point of this post is to raise awareness of how many dangerous people are walking side by side with us, every day in every town in the US, which is not as safe as we think. Here is link of a guy who punched a lady for not giving up her seat on a bus. My nearby small town police blotter shows several incidents of of violence every week. My thought is we need to alert the ladies and the little people to the risk they face, bad guys hurt big guys too, just not very often. One of my degrees in a masters in criminal justice where I studied why bad guys are bad. Really? You need to study that? Like the guy who punched the lady, some people are just a POS. And the increase in meth and fentanyl and other drugs is a never ending risk. I have faught those guys on PCP, and that super human strength deal is real. Anyway, some thoughts about why mouse guns are appropriate and the reason is because my petite wife is not gong to carry a 1911 or 357 mag, her Ruger LC9s sometimes maybe, but if properly aware maybe, just maybe her 380 will be within reach when that time comes. Comments and observations.?

https://currently.att.yahoo.com/att/cm/man-punches-pregnant-woman-she-164222661.html

As Vlad Putin kills babies and little kids and innocent people every day, I keep reading about old ladies and young kids being killed by pit bull dogs and other dogs and getting mugged and robbed right here at home. Something wrong with that picture. This link says a guy punched a lady for not giving him her seat on the bus. What would we do if we are standing there? Just watch and go home and tell everybody about what a jerk he was? And if he kept punching her how many punches before we intervened? I can only recall one time when I was close to a deal like that, and I caught the guy as he launched a round house punch and took him to the ground, it was pretty easy, he did not know I was in the fight, until he was on the ground, then he changed his mind about hitting people, but I was 3 decades younger.......

And then I think back to 1977, I was a federal investigator and assigned to a new post in Oklahoma. The district secretary was the sweetest lady on the planet and treated the new kid on the block like he was her own son. Everybody loved her. But while she was so kind and sweet, she had another story. Every year, her husband and 2 kids would go to south Padre Island, Texas for the week of Christmas. Then it ended. Because while they were gone, her mother, age 69, was brutally raped and tied to a chair and left to die. And she did, in a few days. So, the family came home and called grandma and when no answer came made a bad dash to central Oklahoma, where they round her 4 day old corpse tied to a chair. I always wondered how she could be so kind and sweet when she had just gone through that not long before.

And 1978, was a bad year in Oklahoma. I had the honor being assigned as an agent on a second agency to work on the Roger Dale Stafford case. Roger and his wife Verna and his POS brother herded 6 people inside a Sirloin Stockade and murdered them. They drove down Interstate 35 about 40 miles and had Verna stand out by the car with the hood up while he and his POS brother hid in the dark. Sgt Lorenz and his wife and kid were headed back to Randolph AFB, in San Antonio. Both adults were shot as the 12 year old son in the camper on back watched, then they opened it and killed him also. They say Roger and crew killed 34 people. I met and interviewed the father of the 15 year old girl, who was murdered in that walk-in locker. How do you interview a father after a deal like that? About that death penalty? It works.

Roger Dale Stafford - Wikipedia

Just a few years later, I had an argument with a guy about a used car I had for sale. I refused to sell him the car with him giving me a personal check, he went postal on me. I was an experienced law enforcement offer by 1986, had put lots of bad guys in jail, and here I was unarmed letting some stranger test drive the car we had for sale, and he was in my face. He seemed strange, so I went back inside and dropped my 5 shot J frame in the pocket, went back out and told him there was no deal but I would be happy to meet him at his bank and do a cash deal or whatever. He cussed a while and then left. A few months later, my wife yelled at me to come watch the news. That guy made the new s, national news. That guy was Patrick Sherill, the guy who killed 15 people inside the post office on August 20, 1986, not 50 miles away and a couple months later. And the story gets worse, a guy that worked for me, his wife was one of the 15.

Edmond post office shooting - Wikipedia

Now my wife is just past that 69 and we live an a semi rural place. Love the wildlife and the fact we can sit out and not hear cars and screams of kids and noisy people, but when I am gone, anybody can drop by. Did I mention we live on a dead end.? And then I have medical issue, so sometimes she goes an hour or two north or south to see the grand kids and great grand kids and I am not there. And once in a while I go off with the guys and kill a deer, 5 hours away. And one of these days, pretty soon, I will not be here at all.

So, having been in military and civilian law enforcement local, state, federal and military, I have met some nice thugs and some bad thugs, and know there are lots of them out there. This incident of some jerk punching a lady is now pretty common. That jerk will punch anther lady or child or do other violence. There are other officers on this site, am I wrong? I have been retired over 2 decades, so maybe bad guys only do one bad thing now?

Anyway. my point is we need to raise the awareness and promote training people to use firearms and to have them. I am not going to convince any non gun person to carry a large gun. But if I can convince people to learn how to shoot and when to carry the gun, at least they have a chance. And the place to start in my view is something they will actually carry. I have several 380s and my plan is to give them away. Don't ask I already have a list.

Anyway, just food for thought. Most of us will never meet these truly bad ones, but they are in the parking lot at Walmart when we are there, and we walk pas them every day. FWIW
;
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
Both posts are well said. RFF, you put it better than I know I could.
Don't know if I can say it better than anyone else, just sitting here reflecting on how many bullies there are in the world. And we walk past them every single day. And sometimes they will punch a lady just for a seat on bus. What kind of krap is that?

I am thinking that those of us with a law enforcement background and know how close we are to the bad guys, really should be more involved in teaching not only basic gun stuff but common sense awareness. As Outpost says never leave your club in the truck. And as GW says, that 25 in the hand, is well, in the hand and ready to go.

And if every lady on every bus had a gun in her purse, there would not be a lot of guys punching ladies on buses.
 

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I carry at home, both in the house and when working in the yard. When I lived in Northern Virginia near the I495 beltway a neighbor was murdered during a push-in robbery gone bad. Her S&W 642 was in her purse nearby, but was stolen and used in two other robberies until he picked an off duty police officer's townhouse to break into and she shot him dead in the front hall.
 

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Don't know if I can say it better than anyone else, just sitting here reflecting on how many bullies there are in the world. And we walk past them every single day. And sometimes they will punch a lady just for a seat on bus. What kind of krap is that?

I am thinking that those of us with a law enforcement background and know how close we are to the bad guys, really should be more involved in teaching not only basic gun stuff but common sense awareness. As Outpost says never leave your club in the truck. And as GW says, that 25 in the hand, is well, in the hand and ready to go.

And if every lady on every bus had a gun in her purse, there would not be a lot of guys punching ladies on buses.
My 380 and two spare mags leave the house with me unless I am going to work My job requires me to go into gov't places that have no sense of humor about folks carrying guns. At home that 380 is right now within reach. My gun safe downstairs is open for business and there are handguns and a shotgun next to the bed. since i am now using a company vehicle for work a handgun will likely end up in my car for to and from work. I agree with what we should be doing and try to talk to folks whenever I can. I also spend time with my grandkids teaching them. their guns are at my house at the moment.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I carry at home, both in the house and when working in the yard. When I lived in Northern Virginia near the I495 beltway a neighbor was murdered during a push-in robbery gone bad. Her S&W 642 was in her purse nearby, but was stolen and used in two other robberies until he picked an off duty police officer's townhouse to break into and she shot him dead in the front hall.
Northern VA is too darn close to DC and Maryland. I was stationed there or TDY several times. During Desert Storm I was sent to DC, actually to the DIA training center which is on Bolling Air Force base. I actually stayed in northern VA, down by Fort Belvoir. The night I got there it was late, so I checked into a motel and went to get something to eat. I found a mexican place, Chi Chis that appeared to be open late so I stopped. . I had driven from USCENTCOM at McDill AFB at Tampa, Florida, a long drive and I was tired. As I tried to enter they locked the door and told me to go away. Made me angry but not much I could do so I got stuff at McDonalds and wet to the motel. I flipped on the TV and guess what. That place was being robbed. by 4 guys, three with shotguns.

So, I went to McDonalds and went back to the motel, flipped on the TV and there it was. LOL I may or may not have had a 5 shot 38 in my pocket. Lucky day for me.




Gunmen rob late diners at Chi-Chi's – Baltimore Sun

Feb 15, 1991 · Baltimore Sun Feb 15, 1991 at 12:00 am Four gunmen, three with sawed-off shotguns, burst into a Mexican restaurant in Timonium last night and robbed 27 employees and............................
 

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I highly recommend mouse guns, for mice.

I wouldn't call any situation where I NEED a gun as normal but risking that in mind, I figure any time I ever need a gun I'm gonna need one that kills stuff good as it's main attribute more than I need one that is easy to carry.
 

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I didn't get a permit to carry until I retired because I drove a company vehicle, even on personal business, so I was either on customer property or company property almost 24/7. When I was on my property, didn't need no stinkin' permit & not concerned about concealing it. :)

Being retired, I could dress anyway I pleased & opted to dress for concealed carry, so size isn't a big issue & I can carry 2 if I wish.. The closest thing to a mouse gun that I've purchased was a PF9 Keltec, about 12 oz. Decided I didn't care too much for pocket carry, as slow to get to & almost impossible when seated. I also hated the felt recoil & didn't like shooting it. Figured I should carry something that I didn't mind practicing with.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
I didn't get a permit to carry until I retired because I drove a company vehicle, even on personal business, so I was either on customer property or company property almost 24/7. When I was on my property, didn't need no stinkin' permit & not concerned about concealing it. :)

Being retired, I could dress anyway I pleased & opted to dress for concealed carry, so size isn't a big issue & I can carry 2 if I wish.. The closest thing to a mouse gun that I've purchased was a PF9 Keltec, about 12 oz. Decided I didn't care too much for pocket carry, as slow to get to & almost impossible when seated. I also hated the felt recoil & didn't like shooting it. Figured I should carry something that I didn't mind practicing with.
I th
I carry a PF9 Keltec 90% of the time. It is 12.7 ounces without ammo and about 15 ounces with 8 rounds in it. My Airweight model 637 is nearly 17 ounces loaded. I am told it is still the lightest 9mm made, I have four 380s that are smaller but they are 380s. In the short 380s all that fancy $2 per round ammo is lucky to get 160 foot pounds,the Keltec with hot 9mms can get over 300 , about twice, so my Keltec 9mm Pf9 has about 2,400 pounds of power in it and my similar 380 with only 7 rounds has about 1,140 foot pounds. Which is better?

All depends on your likely threat and what you want to prepare for. The poingt of this thread was to remind folks that too many little ladiies or other have zero protection handy at home and even none away from home. They make a strategic choice to be near;y helpless every day. My thought is if they had a mouse gun, something very small and causing no real work to carry, then the might carry.

Some days I opt for a 357, or a 45 or 44 or other round. When I leave home, I take a bigger gun, usually a Glock 19 or o her high capacity, Except on rare occasions when travelling I do not want anyone to have a clue, I am armed, then i carry the tiny 380. The average day, I have a big gun and a little one when I leave home. Some days the little one is a 380, other days the little one is the 9mm.

Just trying to suggest that we might want to make others safer by convincing them to carry a tiny gun if they otherwise would carry none at all.

I have this theory. If every adult person in the US carried a 5 shot 38 and no spare ammo, that the crime rate for all crimes would drop my 90%. What I do kow for sure is that most victims are not armed at the time of the murder, assault or rape. That I do know. My point is not everybody will be armed but minimally armed would change the world, at least where we live.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
ANY gun is better than NO gun.
Yes. I like Gray Wolf's post #4. Nobody wants to get shot 4-5 times in the face with a 25 acp. The first homicide I every worked was a guy shot with a $49 RG 22 pistol, the shot was to the temple. The ME said he lived 10 seconds at most. I once backed down a big boxer dog with one shot from the little 5 shot NAA pistol in 22 mag, the blast and dirt kicked up in his face did the trick. He went away, I went my way, nobody got hurt and I did not have to shoot a dog, not much worse than having to kill a dog. I have done that twice in a dog attack, the other one was a 357 mag put between his front legs. He left too. Without a gun, I would prolly have been bit both times.

I have heard of people including police officers who painted the front of their barrel white so anyone in front of it could see the size of the hole in the barrel. I have no problem with that. Seems to me that is a last ditch "fair warning" to anyone who is contemplating violence to the person with the gun. In fact, I have some luminous paint in my little kit where I build fishing lures. Think I will paint the front of one gun and see how it looks. Whatever works.
 

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We need a good modern .32 ACP pistol on the market today. Sub-12 oz. with decent sights.
I have two KelTec P-32s, one is the early model and minimalist sights and the second is the latest type with "better" sights than the 1st gen. I am a fan of the .32 because it is thin and in the FMJ it will penetrate..That stated one problem with the KelTec is the magazine, it is designed for FMJ only, anyone who carries it with Silvertips risks developing a fight ending issue called rim-lock. Since the .32ACP is semi-rimmed there is a very distinct possibility that in a "long" magazine that the rims can become locked. This is not possible in some .32ACP pistols that had "short" magazines for the .32Silvertip type ammo only such as the Seecamp. I wish that KelTec would make a magazine that would allow the use of .32ACP hollowpoints without the risk of rimlock; it could be done in a couple of ways. They could alter the front of the magazine so that it could only feed HP, or they could alter the rear of the magazine so that it would not allow rimlock to happen. The latter is the best alternative as I like FMJ, but others want HP..
 

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I have two KelTec P-32s, one is the early model and minimalist sights and the second is the latest type with "better" sights than the 1st gen. I am a fan of the .32 because it is thin and in the FMJ it will penetrate..That stated one problem with the KelTec is the magazine, it is designed for FMJ only, anyone who carries it with Silvertips risks developing a fight ending issue called rim-lock. Since the .32ACP is semi-rimmed there is a very distinct possibility that in a "long" magazine that the rims can become locked. This is not possible in some .32ACP pistols that had "short" magazines for the .32Silvertip type ammo only such as the Seecamp. I wish that KelTec would make a magazine that would allow the use of .32ACP hollowpoints without the risk of rimlock; it could be done in a couple of ways. They could alter the front of the magazine so that it could only feed HP, or they could alter the rear of the magazine so that it would not allow rimlock to happen. The latter is the best alternative as I like FMJ, but others want HP..
There is an adapter to fix that. One can be easily made. It slides down inside the back of the magazine, pushing the shorter HP rounds forward in the mag. Another option is HP chambered & HP 1st round, the rest FMJ. I thought that Keltec offered the adapter at one time, maybe not. I'm not familiar with the .32 Silvertip, but most .32 HPs lack penetration.
 

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Years ago, my wife carried a little .25 & it came in handy one night. She left work & was going to her car when some young creeps drove up & were making advances. When one of them got out of their car, as if to come at her, she pulled it & threatened to nueter him. He jumped back in the car & they left rubber, getting out of there.:) That was long before carry was legal in Texas, so it was a big surprise to them!
 

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I have given my two daughters mouse guns. The youngest daughter, I gave my most reliable handgun I’ve ever owned, believe it or not it was a Bersa Thunder + holding 15 rounds in a easy to conceal platform. My oldest daughter I gave my Ruger LC9 after her marriage took on a “physical” aspect.

I plan on replacing both, as at one time each was my primary carry gun and I would recommend either as they were utterly dependable.
 

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The Bersa Thunder was my wife's daily carry until the arthritis in her hand/wrist got worse & it hurt to shoot it, even to rack the slide. She tried the P938 Sig, but recoil was too much & she settled on the P238. The Thunder Plus is one of the 3 that I alternate with my P938 & 1911.
 
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