My Underwood

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by crasha51pan, May 25, 2008.

  1. crasha51pan

    crasha51pan G&G Newbie

    7
    0
    When I was a youngster just out of the service, I worked with a old guy who told me he had a carbine that his uncle had sent home from the islands during WW11. I said I would buy it and offered him $50. He sold it and it has been with me ever since.

    Here is what I know :

    1. Ser # 2587***
    2. Barrel is marked Underwood 12-43, flaming ball, letter P
    3. Mag. release is marked AU
    4. Type 1 band, no lug
    5. Type 2 hand guard, underside of guard stamped PU
    6. Push Pull safety
    7. Stock has 2 marks, PU in the sling well and a rectangle with/logo and UEF
    8. Flip sight marked SU
    9. S coded receiver
    10. Believe the carbine was made for Underwood by the United Shoe Machinery Co.
    11. Low wood stock
    12. Square end of Operating Slide, on the bottom is the letter F (most likely an inspection mark)
    13. Has a .U. on the back wall of the mag. well, just below the bolt

    I do not believe this carbine has been rebuilt. Looking for any info. you might be able to give. Is there any value in this carbine?

    Thanks in advance

    [​IMG]

    Click on image...
     
  2. carls

    carls G&G Newbie

    6
    0
    From your discription it sounds correct. G.I. bringback. Most of the original guns in my collection were brought back as yours was.All others still in goverment stock were rebuilt . Curently a gi bringback original gun is in the $800 to $2000 range depending on condition and scaricity of MFG. I would guess by your picture $1200 range. Underwood seems to be a more common mfg in our area ,Usually I find Inland or underwood. I have 5 underwood in my collection . with various subcontractor parts but all are mfg for underwood like yours . I have 1 high wood, 1 I cut,2 are 1943 2 are 1944, 1 un dated .Im going by my list that I carry of my varations .I dont have my carbine book handy to look yours up but your gun sounds correct . CARL
     

  3. What a treasure you have. Great looking rifle.
     
  4. crasha51pan

    crasha51pan G&G Newbie

    7
    0
    Carls:

    You sound knowledgeable in Underwoods, hope to pick your brain on the stock of my rifle. Have heard that it's a high wood that has been cut down, also heard that it's correct as a low wood in that serial #. It has me confused, would "being cut down" mean rebuild ? I can find no rebuild marks at all....

    Thanks for your time.....
     
  5. Welcome to G&G Crash51pan. Nice looking M1 Carbine. I have a pic of high wood on the thread original M1 Inland. I dont know if there is a way to tell if its been cut down or not. But still a very nice Underwood.
     
  6. crasha51pan

    crasha51pan G&G Newbie

    7
    0
    Was just looking at the carbine, think I made a mistake. In the sling well is the letters P-U only.
    The rectangle stamp is on the right side of the stock, a few inches to the right of the sling attachment. Not in the sling well.Was looking at the stamp, the UEF is clear. The circle logo is not so clear, but now I have noticed what appears to be the letters J.HD in the upper left of the rectangle (above the U.E.F.). They are faint and my eyes are not as good as they once were. Does anyone know what it is I'm looking at ? It might be a J.HU, I can't tell..
     
  7. carls

    carls G&G Newbie

    6
    0
    I doug out my 12-43 underwood It is also low wood. Everything seems the same but my oprod is marked .U. Im not sure about the F marking on oprod.There were sub contrators but usually underwood would have U next to the f . not just the F, so the oprod is possably a replacement Ill have to look in my code book to see who F is. The markings next to stock cut are inspector markings. I dont have my code book handy but Im sure someone here does to tell the name of the inspector. . I know of collectors over the years who try to match up codes on there guns to make them matching but I dont. Ive found over the years to leave them alone as sometimes they are more correct as they are as sometimes a co. ran out of parts and another co sent them parts to get by.Some of us collectors compare our carbines to see what the parts codes are for a particular month of production sometimes 1 part may have came from another co if that co ran out of a part and to keep line moving that happened. Which to me is more original than matching codes. The exception is rebuilds which Ive seen a carbine with only 1 matching code Arsenell didnt care about codes only that parts met specs. .I see no problem if someone wants to match up a codes on a rebuild but dont put high wood ,push safety ,flip sight on a rebuild. that isnt correct . When arsenell rebuild they were brought up to the current standards at that time. Which is what the stock codes tell. I bought a mint ww2 IP from a collector friend of mine because it didnt have matching codes . Ive never seen a matching one . CARL
     
  8. jimb2

    jimb2 G&G Evangelist

    1,050
    30
    Ohio
    The letters are G.H.D. (Guy H. Drewry) [ not sure of the spelling of the last name] The F is an inspection mark. It is not necessrily associated with any particular individual. The easiest way to tell if your stock is a cutdown is to run your fingernail over the top edge. If it is a cutdown, you will almost always feel the edge of the cut. And a cutdown does not always mean rearsenaled. It was sometimes done in the field if the stock began to crack at that point often at the company/battalion level. The makers marking on an Underwood slide is on the inside of the slide box, on the bottom. And Carls, you are not completely correct on your statement that the arsenal always brough the carbine up to current standards. They did, ONLY, if all of those parts were available. Many carbines went through with only partial upgrades. Look into the "white bag" carbines sold a few years ago by CMP. Both of mine came with push button safeties and type 1 barrel bands, but late mag catches and adjustable sights. Some came through with high wood stocks as well. Those ALL went through the arsenals before being put into storage. Don't make blanket statements about what the arsenals did. You could be very wrong.
     
  9. carls

    carls G&G Newbie

    6
    0
    A lot of cmp - dcm guns were lend lease bring backs, they were sent in servacible condition in any condition at that time. They were not straight from a rebuild but taken out of stock in any servacible condition. you can find bring backs from lend lease in any configeration as they were suplied diferent times of the wars. Ive seen every combination of lend lease returns some early british guns fully original 1943 1944 production The Korean imports a few years ago also could come in in any configeration as same thing guns were sent in servicable cond. The govt didnt send out guns direct from mfg. but guns went to a depot. who than got an order to send so many guns and they just grabed guns. you might get a 1942 or a 1944 it didnt matter at that time . It wasnt till after the war that most guns were checked and field depos rebult to specs servicable guns and unservacible guns went to an arsenell for complete overhaul and rebuild. .What I said is about guns that went to a govt, arsenell for rebuild not a field depot repair. You should check your facts. My uncle was plant supervisor at inland in ww2 and also worked after war at rock river arsenell supervising over hauls of carbines. I have all his books and papers from his work as well as boxes of repair parts . I dont give out info normally but I was giving help to amatures . Im sure my collection far exceeds anything you have seen as my uncle also gave me his collection of over 100 carbines of every veration he came across while working at rockriver as well as 55 carbines I have picked up over the last 40 years. I also have seen all of dcm cmp guns as I was a range officer at camp perry where I had acess to the guns that came in to look at . I normally dont have time for this but i had a few minuits free to try to help someone. I also have extensive military background as most of my family. CARL
     
  10. jimb2

    jimb2 G&G Evangelist

    1,050
    30
    Ohio
    Carls, I'm glad you are such an expert. I'll have to tell my friend ( a battalion level guy) that he never did repair and upgrade those carbines that he told me about. And I'll have to remove all of those early parts from my "White Bag" carbines because they aren't supposed to be there, since the packages have arsenal markings. And where are all of these British Lend Lease carbines? In my collecting career, I've only seen two verifiable Lend Lease carbines. They have the British Broad Arrow markings, you know. And don't bet that you have more carbines than I've ever seen. I've had literally hundreds over the years. I now specializie in truley RARE carbines. I'm not talking about common stuff like Unqualitys or IPs (although I do have a few). Those are the MOST COMMON ones in my collection. I collect lineouts and three way transfers like Inland lineout Rock-Olas, IBM/AO lineouts to NPM, Underwood Lineouts to NPM, Inland /SG lineouts to Underwood and stuff like that. I think I'm fairly well grounded in carbine history. I'm a C&R, competitive shooter, CMP competitor, NRA and State Instructor and have plenty of military in my family as well. So don't get so demeaning to others. You may not have as many facts as you think you do. I'm not exactly a beginner.