[[RATT]Viper]

Here is my Yugo Sks that I got. I got about $750 dollars in it. Scope is a BSA 12x40, Dragonov stock, newly milled trigger assembly (Hated the stock trigger it came with, I have it set at 1/4 ounce trigger pull!), this is a old pic, but I changed out the bipod, now got a clamped bipod for it. Didn't want to mess around with the detachable mags, so kept with the origianal one, and works great. 200 yards im at moa. 1/2in tight groups using Silver Bear ammo. Wolf works good for 100 yard, but didn't like it at 200. Well, there it is......

I want to stress to everyone, clean these weapons. They do need TLC. There is a safety issue with these weapons. Clean, then clean again, I don't want to see anyone hurt or killed by not inspecting, cleaning, ect......... Slam Fire is the worse possible problem you can encounter. If you have ever had, or any weapon in that matter have it "Bump" or "Slam" on you, DO NOT SHOOT IT AGAIN! Until you have it inspected by a professional gunsmith. Safety is always better then dead. If one does it to you, there is a problem with it. They are not designed to do this. Just a thought for you all to remember...

 

[NRAJOE]

Cool....I'm not a big fan of those synthetic stocks on SKS's but whatever works for you...welcome bro....(groovy rug too)

 

[TULAver]

Now, just curious, but why did you go with the big scope if you were keeping the stock magazine? Also, where's your shell deflector? Is it hidden under there or cleverly integrated into the scope mount?

I mean, if you're keeping unbelievable groups like that at 200 yards, surely there's something between the scope and the ejected brass. Are you maybe firing it with the gas system cut off? That would be a novel idea for a short range sharpshooters gun. Straight pull bolt with the recoil assembly on forward assist.

Looks good though. That's what I wanted mine to look like before I chucked the full size scope idea. I've got great target aquisition with a small 4x using both eyes open technique, and I like it better than high magnification OR red dot/OEG for this rifle's effective range.

In fact, I could stand to go to 2x or 3x power for even faster pointing.

 

[toolman]

Surely the 750 dollars is a typo! Good looking gun though, my SKS is one of my favorite and best shooting guns. Welcome aboard!

 

[[RATT]Viper]

$750 dollars is the total cost from buying the rifle, to all the parts put together. Scope, milled custom trigger, drag stock, ect......... Which if you think about it, not bad for what I got, expecially having it customized by a gunsmith.

Question about a big scope, shooting for the 500 yard target, I did have a Leapers 6x40 on it, but couldn't see all that well. My eyesite isen't as it used to be...LOL So I opted for a bigger scope. Believe it or not, the ejecting brass does not hit the scope or mounts period. But that was something that I was planning on getting if it did. At 500 yards, really it not that accurate. But still will hit the target, but doesn't group all that well. After many rounds of ammo and different types, this rifle can be extreamly accurate at 200 yards. Alot of my local rifle and pistol club members, here in Jax Florida, been having problems with there sks not being accurate at 100 yards. From lots of research and study, and many rounds of ammo, seems that the sks was intended to do one thing, hit the body mass. At the time, M1 was the most accurate during the war and to this day, one of the most talked about weapons of all time.

 

[TULAver]

500 yds? At 500 yds you may as well be shooting a Benjamin pump for all the energy 7.62x39 has at that distance. The round isn't practically useful, even if in an accurate gun, past 200yds really.

But back to the scope mount, how on EARTH did you manage that? Every SKS I've ever seen, when fired anyway, ejects the casings straignt up into the air, sometimes only SLIGHTLY to your right. I've seen them spit them out at lower altitudes with much less force because of gas tube fouling and shortened recoil, but even then they'd hit a long scope.

So what's the secret? Did you have some sort of modification made to the extractor to shoot them out the side? As far as I know this is unheard of in an SKS.

 

[[RATT]Viper]

You say that 500 yards dont have energy? Put yourself at 500 yards, with a 7.62x39 pointed at you, and see how you may feel.... LOL People say that knock down power, fps, ect........ is what you need, I disagree. What makes firearms, is where the bullet is doing, what it can do, where exactly it going to hit. What is the use of a firearm, if you don't know where the bullet went? I will tell you that this is a military round, made for one thing, to kill the enemy. What are firearms made for? To kill right. Well the SKS at 500yards will do just that. Other countries make em, and we will modify to make it better. LOL. I can take a pellet gun and kill something with it too. Every single firearm made has its place. But always remember, they will kill you, no matter what round is in the chamber, they all do the same thing.

As you see in the picture, there is no deflector. Never has been. And it don't hit the scope. There is a modification that you can do, and don't require you to buy nothin. Remember, we americans have a way with firearms to make em better. So use your imagination, but keep with safty. Experiment with tensions............ All I will say......Hehehehe If you do this, don't fire the weapon until you put dummies into the chamber and mag to see if it ejects correctly.

 

[jerry]

what's a milled custom trigger? Yugo's have milled trigger groups, is the custom the work a smithy done on it?

Iv'e been lucky I reckon. I have 2 SKS's (Norinco & Yugo) never had a slam fire in 3k rounds. I do clean the guns after every shoot, don't shoot a lot of comercial ammo (have for gouping comparison)

Also curious, a $750 gun w/ a $7.50 bi-pod?

I'm not trying to be critical, just confused

 

[[RATT]Viper]

Yea, stated above, this is a old picture. The bipod that is in the picture is my wife's bipod for her .22 rifle. The bipod was still on order and didn't recieve it in time. Now it has a nice variable bipod. The trigger group was milled (or refabed, not sure of the term, just what the gunsmith said) and tuned by a gunsmith that I goto here in Jax Florida. He got it to were I only have a 1/4 ounce trigger pull, but im not a gunsmith....LOL. Nice shooting weapon and very accurate. But I still love the M1. Your right Jerry, commercial ammo in not good due to the primers being soft and thus, may cause slamfire. I will get a updated pic for you all! What ammo do you use Jerry? Just curious. And have you had any luck on distance beyond 200 yards? Nice to see that people actually post on these forums!

 

[TULAver]

Well, I may not know my SKS as well as the fine folks around here who I come to for help, but I do know the 7.62x39 round pretty well, and let me tell you, that scope isn't going to help with 500yd shots, for the fact that you'd have to aim so high at that distance that your target won't be in the picture.

Yeah I guess you can shoot at stuff 500yds out with it, but why? I'm a huge fan of the round, but confidence in it isn't going to make it magically act out of it's ballistic character. Lots of people swear by 30-30, and there's a VERY old joke that goes something like: Man tells his friend, admiring his lever action, "Been more deer killed with 30-30 than any round I know of." and his buddy says, under his breath "Yeah been even more than that wounded by it..." And 7.62x39 has only slightly better ballistics than the old 30-30 round. The mass and aerodynamics of the bullet are such that at lower velocities, the flight path is much less stable. It drops pretty bad at 200yds, much worse at 300. 500? I dunno, I've never SEEN anyone shooting that far with it.

My buddy is a real fine shot and has a few nice guns. One of them is a bolt action 7.62x39 that he bought as a compliment to his AK. I think it's a savage or a CZ. Anyway, this gun is VERY accurate. With good ammo he gets sub MOA at 100yds, MOA at 200, and anywhere from 3-12" patterns at 300. I don't think he's tried shooting it further than that.

You might hit/kill something at that range with it, but I'll tell you why I wouldn't be scared if you were pointing it at me from that far. Cause I wouldn't be able to see YOU very well, much less a gun in your arms. I hate picking on the round cause I love it so much, but truthfully, there are superior rounds that I still wouldn't depend on at that range.

But if your gun is performing like that, more power to you, you've got one doing what most people WISH theirs would. Hope you like that grenade sight though, cause that's what you need for 500yd shots with this round. That and a BIG target.

 

[TULAver]

Oh, and you might get some friendly jabs here and there about how much you paid all together, since one of the main selling points of the SKS is the low price. A lot of people, for that kind of money, would have scrapped the SKS and gone with something else.

Just remember, no matter what anyone says about it(and if they do, being here it'll probably just be friendly joking) if you're happy with what you have, then it was worth every penny.

I paid too much out the door for mine when I didn't know any better, but it shoots great and I've never regretted it.

 

[BattleRifleG3]

30-30 is better ballistically than 7.62x39mm. With lighter bullets it's close, with heavier bullets it's greatly improved. As far as use at range, I wouldn't be concerned as much with its loss of energy as its rainbow trajectory. And as far as those go, if you know its ballistics really well it's a non-issue. Of course the 308 would be much much better at those ranges. Not to mention a magnum Though I'm far from practiced, I have a 300 RUM for those long shots, even not so long shots.

 

[jerry]

"What ammo do you use Jerry? Just curious. And have you had any luck on distance beyond 200 yards?"

Well, the main thing is, you enjoy your gun (s) That's the important thing. I use Russian surp., Wolf, I love S&B (no longer imported) I recently shot some Silver Bear match, very impressed with that.

Speaking of safety, 1/4 oz trigger pull could be a problem in the future. This might be where some of the doubles are coming from. 2.5# on about any gun is considered extremely low.

 

[TULAver]

Really? From everything I've known, 7.62x39 russian has less muzzle energy, but has a bit(just a bit) flatter trajectory and loses less energy at longer ranges than the 30-30. My problem with using it at longer ranges is, like you said, the need to fire it like an artillery shell, but mainly I don't like firing it at that range because the loss of energy so often equates to loss of accuracy.

Since it's a bit slower moving bullet to begin with, when it reaches the longer ranges and the energy drops from it, it's always seemed to be easily skewed off target to me. Wind, leaves, branches, and other things that normally wouldn't adversely affect the accuracy at it's intended ranges seem to really take a toll on the round at a distance.

I was raised on lever actions, my first rifle was a mossberg lever action .22, my second was a marlin 30-30. I guess that's why I've always felt so comfortable with 7.62x39. But I'd still choose a different gun(if possible) or just get closer to the target, rather than try and hit something that far with it.

 

[[RATT]Viper]

Just to give you some insight, Im a ex US ARMY RANGER. So weapons of any kind I love. Even the .22 rnd is great and use it for compition here at the range. We here in Jax Florida take all sorts of military firearms, and see what we can do to improve the weapon. I hope I didn't confuse you all about "Types" of rounds, that 7.62x39 is the best. Because to me, any round and cal. is great. We here try to get the most you can out of any round. My experiance is that you can get the 7.62x39 accuratly at 500yards, because I do it just about every weekend. This in not uncommon. If you buy a stock Yugo SKS from a store or ect...... then yes, you will not be able to get the 500 yard accuratly. In the military, expectially for Rangers, 500yards is the common distance for weapons. To get the most out of any weapon being pistol, rifle, ect......you have to fine tune them and mod it a bit. But I will say this, I still would take the M16A2 .223 any day for its accuracy. Another thing I would have to say is don't take data on what a round can do, try it yourself and experiment. Try to get the most out of it. Day after day we have members that disprove what the data says about fps, energy, ect........ Data from websites like Win, CCI, Remington, are not always accurate. The data they collect is mathmatical and compounded in fractions and is not the true data. For example, take a winchester 45 cal 230 grain, and measure the data. They are different everytime. So for me, I take data by actually shooting it, measure it, break it down, and that data goes for that firearm only. Two SKS rifles will not shoot the same. I don't want people second guessing me that say, "No, he cannot shoot a SKS accuratly at 500 yards". Because saying that is putting yourself inline to be wrong. Come to Jacksonville, shoot this baby, and judge for yourself. 1/4 oz pull is for compitition Jerry. It can be adjusted. But this pull is the best for me expecially for the 500 yard target during compititions. The scope is just right for me. Everyone has there own ways to setup there weapons. I use this scope and is very accurate. There is another member of ours that uses 4-12x40 Leupold for the 500 yard target with his SKS. And.........he doesn't use a shell deflector as well...........LOL Don't get tied up into data from websites, word of mouth, ect.......about the limitations of the SKS. This weapon can be turned into a deadly one! Experiment for yourself and get involved into a rifle pistol club membership and listen to the "Old Guys". Much wisdom can be learned from them.

 

[jerry]

You Rangers get all the fun. I'm an AF electrician, all we get are wrenches to throw at people. Good for about 20 yards, accuracy falls off from there.

 

[TULAver]

Well, actually I was going by a combination of my experience and available ballistic data. Like I said, most of my experience with 7.62x39 has been with a bolt action rifle, which I'd bet is pretty unusual. I wasn't questioning so much the killing ability of the round at that range, 7.62x39 was designed to kill humans and it excels at just that, I was just stating that unless you've got perfect conditions, 500yd shots would be ghastly difficult with it. I wasn't so much doubting YOUR ability to do such, I was just trying to figure out your reasoning for pushing the gun to that range, and I understand that now from your explanation.

As for the .223, regardless of the gun it's fired in, and don't take offence this IS just my opinion, I have less faith in that round than in the Russian. It's my favourite for varminting by FAR, edging out 25-06 because it has pretty much no recoil. But, and this is going by both ballistic data(which cannot be ignored in such a discussion) AND by the evidence I've seen of gopher, groundhog and prariedog wounds, it's only suited to killing small animals at longer ranges. .223 doesn't have the penetration power to be lethal against larger targets at great ranges. I say this very confidentally because I know from experience that .223 doesn't even guarantee a kill on the smaller animals.

Out at my uncle's property in west texas I sometimes get to shoot varmints with my cousins, and once I nailed a headshot on a gopher I think, which made him do a backflip. I was shooting a .223 bolt rifle of some sort from my Uncle's collection, and we were at about 600-700 yds out. I was incredibly excited because it was, and stands to this day as the farthest shot I've made. Before I can congratulate myself, my cousin, still looking through his scope, says "Uh-oh.." and squeezes off another round, startling the crap out of me, and as I look over to him, he takes his eye off our target area and says "He was gettin' back up".

Sure enough, when we went later to investigate, the little bugger had taken my shot right between the eyes, and his hard little skull deflected the bullet away, leaving him with a nice cut, a concussion and possibly a fracture, but very much alive. My cousin's bullet caught him in the chest as he raised back up(so he says) and did him good. But even there the wound wasn't much for .223 to brag about, and this was a pretty small feller.

So, this is pretty much my opinions on the matter: .223 and 7.62x39 both fantastic rounds within 300yds, past that .223 is accurate but not so deadly, and 7.62x39 is deadly but not so accurate. I said earlier .223 was my favourite varmint round, but I forgot about .243, that's my real favourite. .243 to me is what .223 SHOULD have been in the first place. But as far as accuracy, range, and all around usefullness, .308 is my Grand Poobah. 7.62x54R comes in close second.

 

[[RATT]Viper]

I agree with you on the .308. That is my hunting round I use. And cheap to shoot at the range. One of my .308 that I have is the CETME G3, very accurate and fun to shoot! But on the .223, I guess I love that round due to that It's the round that the military of today uses and one that I was first trained on. Ive seen this round do many things and kill many things. That round can enter your leg and leave your chest. Seen it done.......... Anyone thats been in the ARMY, knows how much brass we had to pickup after BRM...LOL. My specialty as a RANGER was weapons of different flavors. One of them that I loved was the MP5 10mmauto for short range assault. That baby will do wonders! Wish they would come out with a civilian version, that way we all could shoot one.

RANGERS get all the fun........ well, you have to pass "RIP" first, and that is a *****to get through. Then all your training along with it. My job was fun due to the specialty that I was in. Some of them hated it. But it was a great experiance, but not to good memories on some of it. Panama, Somolia, stuff like that. Expecially Somolia, Clinton screwed that up.

You said Texas, what part? I did some training over there in El Paso at Fort Bliss. Dam Hot over there! Did some hunting over in Ft. Stockton for ringtail cats, *****, fox, ect....... You know, .22 setup, 5 of us with 12gauge, red spotlight, and rabbit in distress calls.......LOL

 

[TULAver]

Yeah, .223 is definitely a descendant of .22lr in that aspect. It can ricochet inside of targets in all different ways. My 10/22 has done some nasty strange things to many squirels, grackels, bluejays, etc. Close range out to 300yds I'm more than happy with .223. It's behaviour at distances though, is pretty unpredictable, as that poor ol' gopher found out. I'd like to have known what he was thinking as he got back up... I've seen .223 leave horrendous exit wounds and I've seen it not exit at ALL at only 400yds or so on small rodents. That's too inconsistent for my taste. .243, now that's a hot little round. I wouldn't mind an AR in .243, that would be a killer.

Texas...

Yeah, it gets hot as you can handle it around here. I'm in SE TX too so the humidity takes it's toll usually. Been unusually dry around here for the past couple of months though. Ground is pulling away from our house slabs, water runs off faster than the ground can absorb it, it's that dry.

I did some military style creep/crawl/hide&fire simulation couple weeks back when I went out with a friend and his Bushmaster M4 clone. We were alone at the range so we figured why not, and set up some "cover". REALLY unimpressed with the performance of the .223 out of the 16" barrel, but BOY was it fun. I think I lost 5-7 lbs just from sweat that day. You never think that tactics can be so strenuous untill you try them...

One thing I really noticed that I disliked was the AR's charging handle. The old style hook under the carry handle probably got caught on stuff, but man I bet it didn't slip out of a sweaty hand the way the new ones do. They should have put a loop on the back or something, there's like NOTHING to grip on them.

That mp5/10 I've heard is a nice weapon, but 10mm seems to have been all but abandoned. I remember hearing about it a few years back, but ever since it's all been about .40S&W. It'd be neat to have a civilian version, but I don't see a lot of 10mm ammo for sale. To me, 9mmPARA is sufficient and plentiful, and for big jobs .45ACP get's 'er done!

It's like this .338 LaPua. Sure it's got a lot better characterstics than .308, but I'll wager that it never matches up in popularity and widespread use.

If I were personally developing a new assault rifle prototype, I'd probably use 6.5x55 as the base round. That's a magic caliber from what I've seen, though admittedly I've only gotten to fire it once. Accurate, powerful, flat trajectory, and very nice recoil.

::Edit::
Or .243 Winchester. .243 to me is absolute perfection between .308 and .223 and I think a .243 or 6.5x55 assault rifle would be the ultimate military small arm.

 

[billy]

1/2 at 200 yds.?
my law enforcement bull bbl. bolt .308 wont do that!