[RetiredFreedomfighter]

To me the answer is 'no'. I don't NEED any more capacity than I now have, especially if it is a lesser performing round. Just common sense!

Once upon a time I was a young investigator and our duty gun was the SW model 36, a 5 shot 38. We carried 2 speed loaders for a toral of 15 rounds. Sometimes I would carry a few extra loose rounds in the pocket, but I always felt well armed. I could hit a gallon jug at 100 yards with that gun att least 60% of the time. You get good with what you have. Head shots at 50 yards were no big deal. The entire New York Police department carried 5 and 6 shot 38s until 1994. I rode with DC officers in the 70s who carried the SW model 10 with ball ammo. No shotgun or long gun in the car whatsoever back then.

Point being, people do not learn to shoot and they have so much fear they often carry 30-40rounds on their person for self defense. An officer in a high crime area, sure carry a couple spare mags, or if you live in Chicago, carry a spare mag. But people who live in normal area and carry 40 rounds to go t the grocery store, that is just too much fear and not enough confidence in their ability. Has anybody on hear ever heard of a self defense shooting where the good guy fired more than 6 rounds?

Nothing wrong with the new 30. Maybe it will let us have some really tiny Guns with lots of power?

 

[RetiredFreedomfighter]

I'm still waiting to see if it's going to last. If it does what they say it should be better than a 32 acp

Actually in it's hottest brands and longer barrels, the 32 acp rarely exceeds 200foot pounds. Buffalo Bore I think claims about 250 foot pounds in a hard cast long barrel. The new 30 gets 500 foot pounds pretty quick. So the question is, there are numerous reported cases of two or more pit bulks attacking and killing people. So you are walking your dog and three if them attack, which do you want, 200 foot pounds or 500.

Different scenario, you hear a noise at 3.00 an find 2 strangers in your kitchen. One has a short shotgun. You cannot see what the other one has. Do you want 200 foot pounds or 500.?

It is all academic because it will not actually happen to you or me. Odds are just too slim. And for me, I have already had my turn. In law enforcement I responded to a call of a state park employee attacked by a pack of 5 pit bulls. They rushed me and one tried to bite. I was able to beat them back and did not shoot any of them. I took all five into custody actually. Would I be that lucky again, probably not, few cops would take the risk that I did, but I do not shoot dogs, real men do not need to. Buuut, if I had been out walking my own dog and had that same attack, there would have been dogs shot. Just depends on your risk tolerance. If you have Kids with you both you time to respond and the power level matters. I would not choose a 32 acp for any out bull encounter. My 22 cents.

 

[RetiredFreedomfighter]

If you place that 200 ft-lbs on the dog's skull, the attack will likely end. If you shoot it only once, you're a braver man than I am, Gunga Din! I usually am carrying either a 9mm Kel-Tec P11, a Glock 20, or a Ruger GP100 (in .357 Magnum).

The attack will stop when they're dead. I have no compunction or regret shooting a loose and vicious dog. If they aren't on a leash and are getting aggressive, their owner/handler isn't acting responsibly. He/she can either bury the dog(s) or pay my hospital bills and shell out millions in damages.

It is entirely up to him/her.

OK two responses. First, the dog problem. It is bigger than most folks think. Then I will reply to the 5 dig attack story, might give you a chuckle.

Here in Oklahoma you can forget about suing anybody and getting money. None of the people who have bad dogs that get loose have any money, some examples are below. And even if they owned their homes and had insurance, it is not going to pay for some dog attack if they intentionally keep a bad dog. Insurance policies have fine print that say they do not pay if your alligator bites someone, unless you pay extra fir a specific rider, so forget about the big bucks lawsuits, here...lol

Here in Oklahoma the last few years we have had an absolutely insane amount of people killed or chewed up pretty bad by dogs. One older lady went to walk her dogs and 2 pits got out down the road and killed her and her dog. My daughter lived near her. People do not realize the danger, most people are ignorant of risk. Let me post a few.

The jerk is walking free today. The DA, by the way was a cop before he became an attorney. Then there us this one in 2017.
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Owner Pleads Guilty
UPDATE 11/04/17: The Oklahoma City owner of five pit bulls pleaded guilty Friday to second-degree manslaughter after his dogs killed a man in 2015. Juan Marcos Diaz, 46, was sentenced to one year in prison and three years probation. He received credit for nine months already served. Charges were filed against Diaz in August 2016, nine months after his dogs brutally attacked Edgar Brown, 60, who suffered multiple complications, amputations and eventually death.

"I caused the death of Edgar Brown in a negligent manner by owning a mischievous animal, a dog, who attacked and killed the victim," - Juan Diaz

On October 6, 2015 Brown stopped by a rental home on SW 38 Street to take out the trash. On Diaz's property, directly north, five pit bulls jumped a chain-link fence that separated the two properties. The dogs were only able to reach Brown by breaching another fence through a hole. "Flesh was hanging off his arms. It was the most awful mess I’ve ever seen," his brother Dexter Brown said. He died of his injuries on October 18, less than 2 weeks after the vicious attack.
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Or how about this one. June 23, 2021.

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This one was pretty brutal.

OKLAHOMA CITY – A frantic 911 call came in around 9:30 Saturday night from the 700 block of N.E. 29th Street. 2018

“Ma’am, we need police over here. What’s the address? Quickly!” the calling party told dispatch. “There’s four big *** pit bulls killing this girl. They’re killing this woman, and we’re trying to get them off her.”

Police finally arrived and shot and killed two of the animals. They shot and wounded a third and took a fourth into custody after it ran back into its house.

“All I saw was just pow pow pow pow pow pow pow pow. It was like Vietnam,” Willis said. “Even they shot them, they still was trying to kill them. They were just enraged.”

WATCH: GRAPHIC - OCPD Releases Body Cam Footage Of Dog Mauling


Cosby has lost an arm and doctors may have to amputate her leg. Her family has set up a GoFundMe page to help with her medical bills
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The video above shows the body cam of a police officer shooting one of the pits, it starts about 56 seconds on the video, I believe he was shooting with a 40. Once again, a reason many people put lazers on their Guns for night duty.


No place is safe from muggers, car jackers, and dog packs. The dog aattacks lways happen in places where no one expected it. When I hear people say they are just going for a walk or jog and would never think of taking a gun, I just think they are beyond ignorant. I have never heard if an armed person being killed by dogs. I spent too many years in law enforcement, I well know there is a bad guy in about every 4th car that drives by.

FWIW

 

[RetiredFreedomfighter]

When I was a young man at the tender age of 11, (1966) We knew a family that lived in the country. There were chickens on their acreage. The family had a dog named Bandit. One day, the dog lived up to its name and was caught killing chickens. Needless to say, Bandit suddenly had a quick meeting with the Father and his .30-30. Bandit finally stopped killing chickens.

Was this a bad decision? I think not. Bandit would never have stopped killing chickens on his own. There's a time and a place for everything, including killing malevolent canines.

There you have it. Dog attacks, dead dog.

Problem solved.

OK. First thought, a LEO responding to a dog bite call has certain things to do. First, make the place safe.

Second, in that call a park employee had already been bitten. Due to rabies, every police officer in every state is required to capture the dog if possible, so that the dog can be quarantined for ten days, otherwise the poor guy has to take the rabies shots, they were painful back then. So, my second job was to capture 5 dogs, I do not think he knew which ones bit him.

Third, the officer is supposed to collect evidence of any crime. So the call I got was a pack of 5 pit bulls was running loose in a state park and had bitten one person That was a red light call for me because there could be hundreds of campers in that area, I was about 15 miles away. That call would have been a 100 mph call for me on the highway portion.

It is really a dumb story but I will share. We pulled into the state park RV campground where the park employee had been attacked. With me was a retired LAPD officer, armed with a Berretta. He was also a state employee, a camp host. We did not know if anyone was in the RV and did not want to shoot that direction. I led so all five dogs ran at me led by a cranky old pit. I had my Glock 19 out but the shot would have been at the RV door, which I expected to open at any time. As the pit jumped at me, I rammed my Glock 19 into his mouth and at he same time grabbed him by the collar with my left hand and snatched him off of the ground., Glock stuck in his mouth. Gosh I wish we had body cams, this one would be cool. Anyway, my unit was only a few feet away with the door open, so I just threw him in there and slammed the door. A dog with a gun shoved in his mouth and his feet off the ground cannot do anything but squirm. At that point that one was no risk to me, but there were 4 more.

The other 4 dogs were pretty much in shock. As was the other officer, who was also laughing his head off. as he drew a bead on them The other dogs backed off and finally we were able to corral them without further incident. I think they were afraid I would snatch them up also.

Since there had been an attack these dogs had to be quarantined for fear of rabies. If there is a fear of rabies, they take brain samples so officers know to never head shoot a dog that has already bitten someone. So goofy as it may sound, that was the deal.



Anyway, I had several dog incidence but only one that was significant. And yes, I got a reputation in law enforcement circles as the guy who shoved his Glock down the throat of a pit. I remember meeting people and have them say, oh your that guy that stuck his gun down the dogs throat. Yea that was me. I even remember a DA making a joke about it, something like this, ' do you know what you are supposed to see when a dogs bites a police officers gun barrel? Brains'

Anyway, bizzare deal, it happened quick. On three occasions since then, not related to law enforcement, I have had stray dogs run at me, all three times I put one bullet in the ground in front of them, they all left. Would it work on a pack if pits.? Probably not. I have killed two dogs before that were coming for me. I shot both at 15-20 feet away because I was young and afraid of them. Today, I just stand my ground and if they are very big will take appropriate action. Actually, I have used pepper spray a couple of times on dogs that thought they were bad. I kind of enjoyed the effect it had on them, it is good stuff for dogs. The topic is 32 or 380 for dogs or other defense, For me, I want bigger.


Pretty dumb move I suppose but those things happen fast. and that is how it happened. That was over two decades ago, BTW.........

 

[RetiredFreedomfighter]

You obviously did what was required to handle the problem. All the dogs had to be destroyed to collect the appropriate biological samples. I am glad that they were no longer a threat to the public.

I'm not a "dog hater" but I know that the pack mentality of a bunch of running dogs is dangerous. IMHO, the loose and aggressive dog is an immediate threat to the community at large. This is the reason I have little sympathy for any canine aggression.

They are inherently dangerous and I have no pity or compassion.

Case closed.

No in that case the dogs were quarantined and none was rabid. I do not remember the outcome but I am sure she got some hefty fines. I do not remember if they put the biter down or not. But he was definetely aggressive. I remember discussing it with the DA and him making his little joke. Turns out the woman was going thru a divorce and that RV was their hone, so when the park employee went to the door, they were just protecting their turf. Her crime was not securing them. It was long ago and just a funny memory. Good night.

By the way.my backup gun back then was a Walther PPKs 380 or a J frame SW 38.