To me the answer is 'no'. I don't NEED any more capacity than I now have, especially if it is a lesser performing round. Just common sense!
New Caliber, Federal 30 Super Carry
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I just don't feel that I'm going to need more than 15.
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And thats perfectly fine, but maybe someone else out there does want 12 in stead of 10. not everyone is able to conceal a 15 round carry gun.
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It won't work the 7.62x25 is to long . A .38 super frame will work.
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Bullet diameter of the .30C is .312"; same as the 327 Federal. Bullets for the .327 can be used to create a 1.25" 7.62x25mm to work in a 1911 format.
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Loading the Tokarev
For many cheap ammo is the sole attraction of the Tokarev cartridge, whether fired from CZ52, TT, or 1911. Unfortunately, the supply of truly cheap surplus seems to be gone. Even my Tok’11 …
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Once upon a time I was a young investigator and our duty gun was the SW model 36, a 5 shot 38. We carried 2 speed loaders for a toral of 15 rounds. Sometimes I would carry a few extra loose rounds in the pocket, but I always felt well armed. I could hit a gallon jug at 100 yards with that gun att least 60% of the time. You get good with what you have. Head shots at 50 yards were no big deal. The entire New York Police department carried 5 and 6 shot 38s until 1994. I rode with DC officers in the 70s who carried the SW model 10 with ball ammo. No shotgun or long gun in the car whatsoever back then.To me the answer is 'no'. I don't NEED any more capacity than I now have, especially if it is a lesser performing round. Just common sense!
Point being, people do not learn to shoot and they have so much fear they often carry 30-40rounds on their person for self defense. An officer in a high crime area, sure carry a couple spare mags, or if you live in Chicago, carry a spare mag. But people who live in normal area and carry 40 rounds to go t the grocery store, that is just too much fear and not enough confidence in their ability. Has anybody on hear ever heard of a self defense shooting where the good guy fired more than 6 rounds?
Nothing wrong with the new 30. Maybe it will let us have some really tiny Guns with lots of power?
"Once upon a time I was a young investigator and our duty gun was the SW model 36, a 5 shot 38. We carried 2 speed loaders for a toral of 15 rounds. Sometimes I would carry a few extra loose rounds in the pocket, but I always felt well armed. I could hit a gallon jug at 100 yards with that gun att least 60% of the time. You get good with what you have. Head shots at 50 yards were no big deal. The entire New York Police department carried 5 and 6 shot 38s until 1994. I rode with DC officers in the 70s who carried the SW model 10 with ball ammo. No shotgun or long gun in the car whatsoever back then."
"Point being, people do not learn to shoot and they have so much fear they often carry 30-40rounds on their person for self defense. An officer in a high crime area, sure carry a couple spare mags, or if you live in Chicago, carry a spare mag. But people who live in normal area and carry 40 rounds to go t the grocery store, that is just too much fear and not enough confidence in their ability. Has anybody on hear ever heard of a self defense shooting where the good guy fired more than 6 rounds?"
I understand completely. I used to carry a 6" barreled Colt in .357 Magnum with a total of 18 rounds (six in the cylinder and two speedloaders full of 125-grain SJHP ammunition. It was heavy, but it worked.
Later, I carried a Glock 20 with two extra magazines. I could outshoot the kids with their 9mm pistols and still carry the big gun all day without discomfort.
I usually spoke kindly with people and managed to disuade unlawful behavior, (even in the rough sections of my patrol). There were times that teenagers caught the brunt of my august dipleasure when they pulled stunts that endangered themselves and the public.
When I carried in private, I didn't feel the need to carry a boatload of ammunition. The baleful glare of an armed man with a loaded revolver or pistol pointed at them would generally convince then to calm down and comply.
"Point being, people do not learn to shoot and they have so much fear they often carry 30-40rounds on their person for self defense. An officer in a high crime area, sure carry a couple spare mags, or if you live in Chicago, carry a spare mag. But people who live in normal area and carry 40 rounds to go t the grocery store, that is just too much fear and not enough confidence in their ability. Has anybody on hear ever heard of a self defense shooting where the good guy fired more than 6 rounds?"
I understand completely. I used to carry a 6" barreled Colt in .357 Magnum with a total of 18 rounds (six in the cylinder and two speedloaders full of 125-grain SJHP ammunition. It was heavy, but it worked.
Later, I carried a Glock 20 with two extra magazines. I could outshoot the kids with their 9mm pistols and still carry the big gun all day without discomfort.
I usually spoke kindly with people and managed to disuade unlawful behavior, (even in the rough sections of my patrol). There were times that teenagers caught the brunt of my august dipleasure when they pulled stunts that endangered themselves and the public.
When I carried in private, I didn't feel the need to carry a boatload of ammunition. The baleful glare of an armed man with a loaded revolver or pistol pointed at them would generally convince then to calm down and comply.
"Charlie" tried that and it worked... most of the time. The VC and NVA didn't have a lot of faith in the converted 1911 pistols. (The 7.62x25 is a hot little number, and unless it is properly set up the piece will quickly beat itself to pieces).Bullet diameter of the .30C is .312"; same as the 327 Federal. Bullets for the .327 can be used to create a 1.25" 7.62x25mm to work in a 1911 format.
Loading the Tokarev
For many cheap ammo is the sole attraction of the Tokarev cartridge, whether fired from CZ52, TT, or 1911. Unfortunately, the supply of truly cheap surplus seems to be gone. Even my Tok’11 …
If one builds a 1911 pistol expressly for the 7.62x25 cartridge (think 9x23 Winchester) it works quite well. It is, however, a "custom" build unto itself.
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BigEd, why not just cut to the chase and buy yourself a Yugo Model 57 Tokarev? Same controls as the M1911 less the grip safety, 9+1 capacity, virtually no felt recoil. And you can eliminate even that little bit with an aftermarket compensator that replaces the barrel bushing and makes Saint Fedor's masterpiece even louder than it already is, thus terrorizing the bad guy at the other end of the muzzle. There are even 7.62 Tok hollowpoint rounds now.
What I would like to know is why none of the cartridge companies have put any work into improving the 90 grain bullets the Tok sends downrange. I would really love to see what could be done with what at one time was the fastest pistol bullet in the world, still is the fifth fastest pistol round in the world, and was designed with the ability to kill a horse at 25 meters with one shot. I note that the Russian cops hate the Tok that most of their underworld carries, because it punches right through their body armor. A round that potent deserves more respect and development here in the West.
I have a .30 Tokarev (Yugo M57) and it works well. Upon close inspection, the .30 Super Carry will be another "flavor of the month" caliber/load. They are "reinventing the wheel" in order to split the difference (fill the gap) between the .380 ACP and 9mm Parabellum (9x19) cartridges.
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DC metro did carry 38s with 158 gr match ball ammo. We were not allowed to have anything else even in off duty weapons. supervisors and Robbery squad detectives were the only ones allowed to carry a shotgun. Nobody that I know of in that dept when I worked there even considered carrying a rifle. DC Metro 70-73 3rd District 14th and U nw area for me.
That sounds kind of f***ed up, but Department Regs being what they are tend to limit you. (Ball ammo forces "double taps" to anchor a violent perp).
Not only did "practice make perfect" but it also allowed you to survive.
I think the 7.62x25 Tokarev is better than that. If you're going to run a hot 30 caliber, it might as well be really hot!
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while im a fan of the tokarev round, the benefit behind the .30 super carry is that it is a slimmer case, allowing higher magazine capacity, at least thats the selling point.
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Actually in it's hottest brands and longer barrels, the 32 acp rarely exceeds 200foot pounds. Buffalo Bore I think claims about 250 foot pounds in a hard cast long barrel. The new 30 gets 500 foot pounds pretty quick. So the question is, there are numerous reported cases of two or more pit bulks attacking and killing people. So you are walking your dog and three if them attack, which do you want, 200 foot pounds or 500.
Different scenario, you hear a noise at 3.00 an find 2 strangers in your kitchen. One has a short shotgun. You cannot see what the other one has. Do you want 200 foot pounds or 500.?
It is all academic because it will not actually happen to you or me. Odds are just too slim. And for me, I have already had my turn. In law enforcement I responded to a call of a state park employee attacked by a pack of 5 pit bulls. They rushed me and one tried to bite. I was able to beat them back and did not shoot any of them. I took all five into custody actually. Would I be that lucky again, probably not, few cops would take the risk that I did, but I do not shoot dogs, real men do not need to. Buuut, if I had been out walking my own dog and had that same attack, there would have been dogs shot. Just depends on your risk tolerance. If you have Kids with you both you time to respond and the power level matters. I would not choose a 32 acp for any out bull encounter. My 22 cents.
If you place that 200 ft-lbs on the dog's skull, the attack will likely end. If you shoot it only once, you're a braver man than I am, Gunga Din! I usually am carrying either a 9mm Kel-Tec P11, a Glock 20, or a Ruger GP100 (in .357 Magnum).
The attack will stop when they're dead. I have no compunction or regret shooting a loose and vicious dog. If they aren't on a leash and are getting aggressive, their owner/handler isn't acting responsibly. He/she can either bury the dog(s) or pay my hospital bills and shell out millions in damages.
It is entirely up to him/her.
The attack will stop when they're dead. I have no compunction or regret shooting a loose and vicious dog. If they aren't on a leash and are getting aggressive, their owner/handler isn't acting responsibly. He/she can either bury the dog(s) or pay my hospital bills and shell out millions in damages.
It is entirely up to him/her.
Really? Are marauding dogs near and dear to your heart? Since when are dogs more important than humans? My "soft heart" ends when my body and health are in jeopardy. Real men? Please.
They are animals, not humans. I wouldn't hesitate to kill one to stop a perceived attack any less than I would kill any other attacking animal. I don't heal anywhere as fast as I used to. The animal will not have the opportunity to tear a chunk of flesh from my body, at any time.
No pet/animal is worth it. (Hint: They can be replaced).
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