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New Caliber, Federal 30 Super Carry

12K views 79 replies 24 participants last post by  Ranger4 
#1 ·
It's a 32 with the length and energies of 9mm for a +2 capacity over 9mm in micro compact pistols. Capacity and energy favor the new 30 Super over the .380 for guns like the SW EZ and Ruger LC that come in 9 or 380. Could be interesting. I'll eagerly await decent ballistic testing comparison to the 380. A .40 converted down to .30 would make a very fun target pistol. I'd love to see the new .30 in a sub gun/AR/PCC.

 
#5 ·
yeah idk, 9mm is pretty much the sweet spot. i mean, sure + 2 rounds would be nice, but i dont think this will really catch on.

its very similar to what federal did with the .327 fed mag. its like a .357 but alittle smaller diameter, supposedly allows a small revolver or more capacity, and also less recoil than .357.

but.. i dont think that its better enough to overcome the market density of the common calibers out there.
 
#16 ·
This has been my thoughts exactly. The 30/32s have enjoyed an almost cult following for over a century. There will always be the 357/38/9mm at the same weight, greater velocity, but lower capacity or larger frame size. I'll fall back on sectional density. Obviously if weight and velocity are similar, the one with the WIDER projectile leaves a wider hole and the one with the NARROWER projectile offers more penetration.

So it comes down to what your target is and how far it is. I think it's going to be a hit with 32acp and 327federal fans, and might make a splash with anyone who had resigned themselves to the SW EZ and similar sized 380s.

It's definitely going to be a niche caliber, but I could see it eeking out a place in the market for lower recoil shooters.

It could be a lot of fun in larger guns. Steel frame 9mms already enjoy a firm hold on pistol competitions because of their capacity/low recoil. Can you imagine a CZ Shadow II with some 23+ capacity in 30 caliber? We'll have to see how well it does but I think it won't be long before someone is trying it out.
 
#12 ·
Bingo!
Now this is where IMHO, they really missed the boat; twice.
First, IMHO for what it does the .327Fedreral is pretty good and for published data is pretty close to the .30Tok.

I had hoped to his cartridge was going to be something very similar and in the class of the above two. But shading towards the .30Tok.,.
Or even a rebranding akin to the .300Whisper now being the .300BlackOut.
Oh well.😑
 
#10 · (Edited)
So, ballistically, the 30 Super Carry is a rimless 327 Federal Magnum. Bullet diameter and weights are the same.The 30 SC case is 0.031" shorter (which is not really much) than the 327.

I guess we shall see how many police organizations adopt it, if any.
I like the performance of my 327. And I especially like that reloads don't take a lot of powder to hit top velocities. Recoil can be stiff but isn't bad. I haven't quite thought of it as a self defense caliber. It's been more of a woods carry gun for me.

Edit: 01/24/22 - I saw some junk emails that got me to thinking on the subject. I learned that I misread the link showing the cartridge specs and took the OAL cartridge length of the 30 SC as the case length. So I was incorrect in my comment when I said the 30 SC is just 0.031" shorter than the 327 Federal Magnum case length. It is actually 0.373" shorter than the 327 case.
Interestingly, the 30SC can operate up to 50 ksi while the 327 max is 45ksi. So the shorter cartridge is loaded a little hotter. The 327 has a LOT of "bark" in my SP-101. The 30SC likely has more.
None of this likely means much to folks. I just wanted to correct my error.
 
#13 ·
So, ballistically, the 30 Super Carry is a rimless 327 Federal Magnum. Bullet diameter and weights are the same.The 30 SC case is 0.031" shorter (which is not really much) than the 327.
I guess we shall see how many police organizations adopt it, if any.
Im gonna go ahead and predict zero not counting some random LEOs' off duty carry.

The last two non standard calibers that were mass adopted by LE in the US was .45 GAP (which had a couple state police agencies and a few local ones) and the more popular .357 SIG which had both state and local level police level adoption and some federal organizations carrying it like the US Secret Service and the US Air Marshalls. All of those agencies have since moved to .45 ACP or 9mm.
 
#14 ·
I forgot to mention in my last post that while this caliber might not end up being very popular here in the US, it may see a lot more sucess elsewhere in the world. While the United State's might have the most open gun laws, we are by far not the only country in the world where citizens can own and carry firearms for self protection... even if it is a lot more restrictive.

In many of those countries (especially some in South/Central America and Europe) they limit the caliber size of what the average (non military/police) citizen can privately own.

In many countries "military calibers" are banned from private use/possession. In some countries that's 9mm luger that is banned or like in Mexico anything above a case diameter of .38 special is restricted.

Hence why both .380ACP and .38 Super are a lot more common elsewhere. This new .30SC might just be the ticket for all those people looking to pack the biggest defensive caliber possible while still staying within their country's gun laws.
 
#15 ·
I forgot to mention in my last post that while this caliber might not end up being very popular here in the US, it may see a lot more sucess elsewhere in the world. While the United State's might have the most open gun laws, we are by far not the only country in the world where citizens can own and carry firearms for self protection... even if it is a lot more restrictive.

In many of those countries (especially some in South/Central America and Europe) they limit the caliber size of what the average (non military/police) citizen can privately own.

In many countries "military calibers" are banned from private use/possession. In some countries that's 9mm luger that is banned or like in Mexico anything above a case diameter of .38 special is restricted.

Hence why both .380ACP and .38 Super are a lot more common elsewhere. This new .30SC might just be the ticket for all those people looking to pack the biggest defensive caliber possible while still staying within their countries gun laws.

good point about military cartridges not being allowed in many other countries.

I would definitely choose the .30 super carry over a .380acp if presented with those options.
 
#22 ·
I got to examine a Colt-arev a few years ago, brought back from Vietnam (one of 4 Colt-"inspired" guns this guy had on display at the gun show). Mechanically it looked like they did not do much. It had a homemade spring, a barrel cut down from who-knows-what of similar outside diameter to the original 1911 barrel, and a modified barrel linkage. The mag was homemade, and had a Tokarev spring and follower, and seemed to have been made from some sort of ration can.

The other 3 he had were;
a cast iron, two-piece, single shot that seem to have been made from a mold of a 1911,
A 1911 frame and slide that had been gutted, and turned into a blow-back with a fixed barrel, but the mag was missing,
A gun built from the ground up as a passable, but crude 1911, that with the exception of the slide and frame contained all Tokarev parts,
they were all in 7.62x25
 
#24 ·
For me personally I see no use for such a cartridge. Now on the other hand I have been looking for a cartridge for my wife to comfortably shoot and carry. She is a petite statured woman and weighs all of a 100lbs. I have bought her several different guns over the years and yet she hasn't really liked any of them. The recoil on the few 380's she has shot wasn't exactly overwhelming but yet it was enough that she didn't care for it. The LCP she had was the first gen and she hated the double action trigger and the recoil was a bit much. She hasn't shot the newer one since we've been very busy these past few months. The ones she likes to shoot are way to large and not practical for carry in any way for her other than in her purse.
Maybe this cartridge will be a good fit for her? I of course will not buy one until I can find a place that has one for their indoor range gun that we can rent. I've bought enough guns for her that she doesn't want to shoot.
 
#31 ·
For me personally I see no use for such a cartridge. Now on the other hand I have been looking for a cartridge for my wife to comfortably shoot and carry. She is a petite statured woman and weighs all of a 100lbs. I have bought her several different guns over the years and yet she hasn't really liked any of them. The recoil on the few 380's she has shot wasn't exactly overwhelming but yet it was enough that she didn't care for it. The LCP she had was the first gen and she hated the double action trigger and the recoil was a bit much. She hasn't shot the newer one since we've been very busy these past few months. The ones she likes to shoot are way to large and not practical for carry in any way for her other than in her purse.
Maybe this cartridge will be a good fit for her? I of course will not buy one until I can find a place that has one for their indoor range gun that we can rent. I've bought enough guns for her that she doesn't want to shoot.

I'd bet the recoil on this will be between the 380 and 9mm, so not likely any better than the 380.

sounds like she might be a good candidate for a .22 carry gun. perhaps a .22mag revolver?

i wish the industry would come out with a few more options in sub compact .22lr semi auto pistols.
 
#25 ·
And that 'way' is????? ;) I had a Commander in 38 Super MANY years ago made by Colt. I had no problems with it. BUT it is my understanding that using the 1911 for other than the intended use REQUIRES A LOT OF R&D. Am I wrong???
 
#27 ·
Almost a quarter of a century ago, now, I needed a handgun in order to protect the lives of both my wife and myself. Fortunately I had a gun, a small 380 Auto. We were lucky and, somehow, managed to survive that night.

Until very recently (like this past month when circumstances forced me to choose between no gun, and a deeply concealed one) that is also the last time I ever carried a small 'pocket pistol' as a primary.

Since that night my usual EDC has been a large—and truly comforting—45 ACP pistol. In fact I carry it so often, and for so long everyday that I actually feel naked without its considerable weight hanging on my belt.

New, small, and 'whiz bang' mean absolutely nothing to me!
 
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#37 ·
I guess the real question is, 'does this new caliber do anything new or is it just change for the sake of change, aka just for $$$$' ???? If it's not broke don't fix it!!! ;)
 
#45 ·
Bullet diameter of the .30C is .312"; same as the 327 Federal. Bullets for the .327 can be used to create a 1.25" 7.62x25mm to work in a 1911 format.
 
#50 ·
"Charlie" tried that and it worked... most of the time. The VC and NVA didn't have a lot of faith in the converted 1911 pistols. (The 7.62x25 is a hot little number, and unless it is properly set up the piece will quickly beat itself to pieces).

If one builds a 1911 pistol expressly for the 7.62x25 cartridge (think 9x23 Winchester) it works quite well. It is, however, a "custom" build unto itself.
 
#48 ·
"Once upon a time I was a young investigator and our duty gun was the SW model 36, a 5 shot 38. We carried 2 speed loaders for a toral of 15 rounds. Sometimes I would carry a few extra loose rounds in the pocket, but I always felt well armed. I could hit a gallon jug at 100 yards with that gun att least 60% of the time. You get good with what you have. Head shots at 50 yards were no big deal. The entire New York Police department carried 5 and 6 shot 38s until 1994. I rode with DC officers in the 70s who carried the SW model 10 with ball ammo. No shotgun or long gun in the car whatsoever back then."

"Point being, people do not learn to shoot and they have so much fear they often carry 30-40rounds on their person for self defense. An officer in a high crime area, sure carry a couple spare mags, or if you live in Chicago, carry a spare mag. But people who live in normal area and carry 40 rounds to go t the grocery store, that is just too much fear and not enough confidence in their ability. Has anybody on hear ever heard of a self defense shooting where the good guy fired more than 6 rounds?"

I understand completely. I used to carry a 6" barreled Colt in .357 Magnum with a total of 18 rounds (six in the cylinder and two speedloaders full of 125-grain SJHP ammunition. It was heavy, but it worked.

Later, I carried a Glock 20 with two extra magazines. I could outshoot the kids with their 9mm pistols and still carry the big gun all day without discomfort.

I usually spoke kindly with people and managed to disuade unlawful behavior, (even in the rough sections of my patrol). There were times that teenagers caught the brunt of my august dipleasure when they pulled stunts that endangered themselves and the public.

When I carried in private, I didn't feel the need to carry a boatload of ammunition. The baleful glare of an armed man with a loaded revolver or pistol pointed at them would generally convince then to calm down and comply.
 
#53 ·
"Once upon a time I was a young investigator and our duty gun was the SW model 36, a 5 shot 38. We carried 2 speed loaders for a toral of 15 rounds. Sometimes I would carry a few extra loose rounds in the pocket, but I always felt well armed. I could hit a gallon jug at 100 yards with that gun att least 60% of the time. You get good with what you have. Head shots at 50 yards were no big deal. The entire New York Police department carried 5 and 6 shot 38s until 1994. I rode with DC officers in the 70s who carried the SW model 10 with ball ammo. No shotgun or long gun in the car whatsoever back then."

"Point being, people do not learn to shoot and they have so much fear they often carry 30-40rounds on their person for self defense. An officer in a high crime area, sure carry a couple spare mags, or if you live in Chicago, carry a spare mag. But people who live in normal area and carry 40 rounds to go t the grocery store, that is just too much fear and not enough confidence in their ability. Has anybody on hear ever heard of a self defense shooting where the good guy fired more than 6 rounds?"

I understand completely. I used to carry a 6" barreled Colt in .357 Magnum with a total of 18 rounds (six in the cylinder and two speedloaders full of 125-grain SJHP ammunition. It was heavy, but it worked.

Later, I carried a Glock 20 with two extra magazines. I could outshoot the kids with their 9mm pistols and still carry the big gun all day without discomfort.

I usually spoke kindly with people and managed to disuade unlawful behavior, (even in the rough sections of my patrol). There were times that teenagers caught the brunt of my august dipleasure when they pulled stunts that endangered themselves and the public.

When I carried in private, I didn't feel the need to carry a boatload of ammunition. The baleful glare of an armed man with a loaded revolver or pistol pointed at them would generally convince then to calm down and comply.
DC metro did carry 38s with 158 gr match ball ammo. We were not allowed to have anything else even in off duty weapons. supervisors and Robbery squad detectives were the only ones allowed to carry a shotgun. Nobody that I know of in that dept when I worked there even considered carrying a rifle. DC Metro 70-73 3rd District 14th and U nw area for me.
 
#49 ·
The key word in all of our above post is 'NEED'!!! As you all indicted above, a 5 shot revolver (good SD ammo) and one 'speed strip' is all any 'civilian' will 'need' to deal with 99.99% of the time that they would be 'victimized'!!!;)
 
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