No love for 1944 91/30`s??

Discussion in 'Mosin Nagant' started by SovietPirate, Sep 5, 2010.

  1. I stopped by my local Mosin honey hole to look at his new batch.

    I had set aside a `21 Izhevsk (well worn marks), a `28 Tula, and a `25 Izhevsk to be the ones I chose from when done searching. Last box I opened was a BEAUTIFUL `44 Izhevsk.

    Mirror non-counter bored, matching w/plate lineout. ALL parts down to extractor are triangle marked, except cocking piece that is bow/arrow marked. Stock is the late/post ware with pressed liners and very few dings.

    Everyone`s opinion was that even a `42 or `43 date would be better. (customers not owner). I KNOW collector wise the 20 and 30 dated ones are better and the `28 Tula would been snagged by 99% of people.

    But why the no love feeling I get from everyone (in alot of places!) about `44 91/30`s? Is it that they didnt see as much war, or what?

    This one shoots AMAZINGLY! btw!
     
  2. ChaZam

    ChaZam G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    Some of the examples from the later years of WWII the fit and finish of the wood and metal was not as nice, but I've seen no evidence that it affected the performance or durability of the rifles. I'd just say to make yourself happy as most MNs do not have a lot of collector value to begin with.
     

  3. texnmidwest

    texnmidwest Sir Loin of Beef Forum Contributor

    No, it is not the lack of war but the pressures of war that effect the 1944 models. At that time Russia was fighting for survival. Everything in Russia was taxed to the breaking point. Resources were is short supply and times were very dark. Russia was more concerned with getting rifles manufactured and into the hands of their soldiers than they were making sure they were polished and fitted properly. If machine marks did not effect function then out the door they went!

    They are rugged and simple rifles no matter what the year. The issue for some is that the tolerances on the mid war to end of war times were a little more sloppy and the fit and finish may be lacking in some. All in all, I have Mosins dating from 1915 to 1946. All are very nice rifles, a joy to shoot and a joy to own.

    BTW, I have a 21 Izzy ex dragoon....dang good shooter!
     
  4. Here is an example from an article I'm writing for my Mosin Nagant Forum. The top bolt is from a 1944 Tula ex-sniper and the lower bolt from a 1931 Izzy. As you can see by the photo the slot finish on the 44's Tula bolt was a bit sloppy, inside that bolt it's more of the same. BUT that doesn't that this gun shoots better or worse than my 31.

    The Tula plant was under tremendous pressure to crank out weapons to drive the Nazi's back, and so production was a bit rushed on some of the wartime rifles. The cool thing is that these wartime rifles can be made to look and work just like their older comrades. Sometimes the extra slop allowed these guns to work under the most horrific of conditions where other rifles jammed and didn't work.

    In this day of computer controlled CNC machines it's nice to see something that was hand produced one at a time, the machining marks tell a story. And that's what makes the older rifles interesting to me.
     

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    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  5. Thanks guys, I know and understand the "ugly" aspects of wartime production as I`ve owned and seen some UGLY `42 and `43 Izhevsks. (I`m talking Olga gnawed the receiver ugly!) But this `44 would rival prewar comrades and the metal would prob even rival a new remchesterby!

    But what I really meant by asking was it seems the date, not ugliness just gets no love. Even on auction I looked at, the 1944`s were less $.

    Only 1944`s I ever see people talk about are snipers and ex-snipers. (mine is not an ex) I`m not trying to be a pain, I`m just wondering. I guess its just cause they didn`t see as much use?
     
  6. No the 44 saw plenty of use. Again I think it's just maybe the numbers produced and the fact that most of these were rushed into service. Personally I like the 44's. Their loss is your gain.

    Most of the early rifles have more history behind them, ex dragoons, converted M91's, etc. I will say some of the older ones have more interesting markings.

    So really I would not worry about what others say, if you like the way it shoots then that's what is really important after all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 5, 2010
  7. I like to think of my `30 Tula charging at Stalingrad and then with my "new" `44 Izhevsk rolling into Berlin hehe :) If only they could talk!
     
  8. killsnapz

    killsnapz G&G Evangelist

    I bought my 44 Isky as a sniper repo a year ago from a local dealer. This rifle has the smoothest and lightest trigger pull out of any of the mil-surps I own. I am not sure what it was before the repo scope was added but I am almost convinced it was originally a sniper that was made back into one. The finish on the bolt is beautifull and with a little work with a polishing wheel it shines like chrome. The blueing is near perfect also. It sure does'nt look like it even saw much action. The bore looks almost new. only some varnish flaking of in a couple of spots. It is all number matching. The number style on the bolt match the same style as all of the numbers on the rest of the rifle so it does not look like it had a bent bolt added to it to convert it into a sniper. Did I just get lucky and get an ex-sniper as a repo sniper?

    Michael
     
  9. Look on the left side of the barrel near the wood/reciever line. If it was ever a sniper there should be evidence of an old scope # being buffed off.

    My `44 is also smooth as glass and looks like it could have been made last week.
     
  10. killsnapz

    killsnapz G&G Evangelist

    I just took it out of the closet to have a look. The left side of the receiver in front of the new scope mount has been scrubbed! They actually missed the last two digets of the scope number. I can still read a 2 and a 7 and part of the first digets is still there but it is hard to tell for sure what it was. Sweet! I had a feeling it was an original sniper just because the trigger was so nice and overall high quality of the finish. That and it has a nice tight chamber also. You can barly close the bolt about a 1/4 of the way on a no-go gauge. I am happy I payed a bit more for what I though was a sniper repo. Now I know it is an original sniper with a newer made scope. Sweet!

    Michael
     
  11. Cyrano

    Cyrano Resident Curmudgeon Forum Contributor

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    Didn't I tell you Collector Rifle & Ammo was the place to buy your Mosins, Michael? I remember that rifle well. I couldn't afford to buy it at the time, and I'm delighted it went to someone who appreciates it.
     
  12. killsnapz

    killsnapz G&G Evangelist

    Can't thank you enough Cyrano for turning me onto them last year. I did not know until right now that I actualy had a real ex-sniper that was turned back into a sniper! I really could not afford it either but a little voice in my head said to grab it you wo'nt be sorry! I could have grabbed 2 or even 3 milsurps for the $500 beans I payed for it but now I am so happy that I did grab it when I saw it. Mabye some day well me up at a range somewhere in between our houses and I'll hand it over to you so you can through a couple down range with it. It only seems fair as I would not even have it if it was not for you.

    Michael
     
  13. Cyrano

    Cyrano Resident Curmudgeon Forum Contributor

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    If we can arrange that, I'll let you try Natasha out. She's (I think) an ex-dragoon rebuilt to 91/30 standard with a jmeck scope mount and a variable power LER scope on her. She'll shoot to minute of angle if you do your part. The scope mount looks a little weird, but when she shoots that well, who cares? I don't; I'm interested in results, not looks!