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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
I recently came across this, I wasn't sure if it was a replica but I got a,good deal on it but I really don't know where to go to have it appraised. I have had someone look at it tell me it was real. But I'm not sure how much stock I can put in their word. He said the carving of,the face was not original but he thought everything else was authentic. Any thoughts to age and where it may have came from?
 

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Resident Curmudgeon
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It does kind of look like it was assembled out of bits and pieces by Bubba the Shadetree Gunsmith, don't it?
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Yes it does, lots of imperfections. I will say this the trigger works well. I would be willing to take to an appraiser or someone reputable if I could be steered in the right direction.
 

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You got this thing quite often when the stock was used to club something and broke. Since the owner didn't have the money for a new one, or the ability to repair it, they cut it down. You'll see the same sort of thing sold as a 'blanket gun' by the current muzzleloader sellers.

As far as age, I don't see anything in your pics that couldn't be an Indian made weapon of fairly recent manufacture (last fifty years) that someone cut down in the garage. I could be wrong, of course, not having the thing in front of me.
 
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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Thanks for the tips. I can see what you guys are talking about. So it was a rifle cut down. I only paid 25 bucks for it. I figured it was worth that. Any ideas on a possible value? I have a guy wanting to trade for it.
 

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Is it worth 25 bucks as a wall hanger? I guess. Is it worth much more? Not to me.
 
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without a makers name of any sort..
you pretty much have some bits of wood and iron[albeit old pieces of wood and iron] probably worth more as Art than firearm.
100 bucks is a number I'd throw out, and negotiate from there.
or make a straight trade for a glock or a
hi-point.
 

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If you find someone willing to trade a Glock even up for that, check the Glock to make sure it isn't stolen. Hi-Point? Maybe.
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 · (Edited)
Thanks again for the input. I think I have more than enough information to make my decision on the trade. Its to take over payments on a 6k sq ft shop he is behind on. (I have been renting the building from him making my payments to him and he wasnt paying the bank) that's why I was curious as to why he wanted that gun he told me he thought it was worth 4 thousand lol
 

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Thanks for the tips. I can see what you guys are talking about. So it was a rifle cut down. I only paid 25 bucks for it. I figured it was worth that. Any ideas on a possible value? I have a guy wanting to trade for it.
The story is worth more than the gun. If you can track down an exact origin that will make all the difference in value.
 

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I don't have it in front of me to check condition, bore, age, etc. As it sits now I suspect it's going to be a hard sell. I would say maybe $50, assuming it's functional and you can find someone interested in it. If someone wants it bad you may get more out of it.

But, I don't actually know what it is. On something like that I recommend taking it to a few local gunstores and asking them about it. Someone will have a better idea of what it is and if it's worth anything. Remember too, if they seem strangely anxious to purchase it after telling you it's garbage that it's probably not garbage...

It is interesting (and nice) that the ram rod was cut down, or one was found that fit it.
 
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Discussion Starter · #15 ·
The ram rod is the only piece with a Phillips screw in the end. I didnt think it was original. The barrel looks like it could have been cut down. Would it have had two sights on it before it was cut down?
 

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I'm pretty sure this pistol is an original...something. I have changed my mind about it being cut down from a rifle, though.

Except for one Phillips head all the screws are hand slotted with hammered heads.

The gun has a straight trigger with a crude trigger guard.

The nose cone and barrel band are the very early 1853 Enfield pattern, before the band tensioners were added and long before the nose cone was switched over to brass. To my knowledge every replica made features some form of tensioner on the band.

Most telling is the lock. It started out life on a flintlock, you can still see the pin hole where the frizzen spring was attached. Moreover the hammer is straighter than most percussion guns and was cut off at some point with the hammer forge-welded onto the shank.

The hammer is designed to strike an early pattern square shanked nipple. Early pattern British percussion guns used a .440 long nipple, and that is the longest size, to my knowledge, available on the reproduction market. The nipple on this gun looks even longer. It doesn't seem likely that someone hammering something like this together in modern times would use a nipple type that has been nearly impossible to get since the 1870s. Until Track of the Wolf arrived on the scene the .440 nipples were practically unobtainable throughout the 20th and early 21st Century.

On top of that, the lock is left handed. Only the ultra rich could afford left handed rifles, but left handed pistol locks, and the locks from double barrel guns were fairly common. The fact that this gun has a left handed lock makes me think that it was meant as a handgun from the beginning rather than cut down from a long gun. I wish I could find an exact match for that lock plate in my materials. The closest thing to it I could find is from an 1820s French double barrel pistol.

If someone made this thing in modern times they used a lot of valuable antique parts. It was definitely something homemade using old parts, though.

I still think North Africa is likely, though on comparing the gun to some other straight gripped pistols and short muskets with carvings, the carving more resembles some of the ones from Polynesia and Burma.
 

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Well, an original non-brass Enfield nose cone is worth $90, and an early pattern non-tensioner Enfield barrel band is worth $40. There is always a market for unusual antique conversion locks. If the carving can be traced to the style of a particular region that would help.

Maybe the OP's local museum has an expert on carvings, or knows who to contact? Jeremy might want to start by calling there if he is still reading this thread.

Primitive art and tribal weaponry has a pretty nice market once you get away from the stuff originating in the Middle East and the Balkans.

Vaguely similar pieces from East India, Western China, Burma, Polynesia, the Philippines, and north Africa generally start in the $500 range and can go astronomically high after that.

This one is such a strange duck, I think that carving would give more information than any part of the firearm itself could.

Did anyone else notice the hammer, where it makes contact with the cap, was unshrouded and flat, and that it hit at roughly 90 degrees of the bore axis?

The only pistol I've ever held in my hand with that geometry was Japanese. That, and the left hand plate, is what made me really start tracking down every piece of this thing. Each question I think I answered brought up more as to why this thing is such a hodge-podge of pre-1860s parts.
 
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