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Not-so-wildcat - 30 Carbine subsonic?

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by BattleRifleG3, Aug 3, 2005.

  1. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 Retired Moderator

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    I was thinking if someone wanted a subsonic 30 caliber round and could load either single shot or a bolt action mag of intermediate (ie 223ish) length, how about using the 30 carbine but with much heavier bullets that simply wouldn't fit in the M1 Carbine mags? Wonder how big a bullet could be used effectively. The thought of a 240gr bullet in a 30 carbine shell is... um... amusing. Course that would be more like a 300 Whisper, so I doubt the 30 carbine round can propel it that fast. Course if it were designed for a bolt gun it could probably be loaded abnormally hot. Could use any 308 caliber barrel blank. Low cross sectional area would mean far lower rearward thrust than most other rounds. Suppose it could even work in a straight blowback carbine? Gears are turning here, what do you guys think?


     
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  2. maarten221

    maarten221 G&G Newbie

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  3. silentknight

    silentknight G&G Newbie

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    Because this is BRG3 we're talking about ;) . Actually this is probably one of his most tame ideas yet :p
     
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  4. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 Retired Moderator

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    I'm thinking, why go with a rare round like the Whisper when the carbine round is available. This wouldn't be for an M1 carbine, but probably a bolt action or single shot. Would be pretty quiet, especially out of a long barrel.
     
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  5. Snakebite

    Snakebite G&G Evangelist

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    Theres the "Ma Duece", the 1903, 1911, and soon there will be the BRG!
     
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  6. rdale 501

    rdale 501 G&G Newbie

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    What would it be used for? I can't think of a good use for it so help me. It would be costly to make. I don't think any production bolt action would accecpt it. Possibly a break open single shot. Describ the "whisper" round to me. It is not one I am familure with.
     
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  7. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 Retired Moderator

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    300 Whisper is basically a rare and expensive subsonic 30 cal round designed for AR-15 type systems. Loaded with 240gr bullets for subsonic velocities.

    Use? All I can think of is medium sized varmints at short range. And targets. The main thing is that it would be subsonic, use common bullets, and have a low reloading cost for using so little powder. As an existing round, reloading supplies would be available and you could use regular 30 carbine ammo in a pinch.
     
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  8. maarten221

    maarten221 G&G Newbie

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    Could market it to LE/SWAT in a handy little carbine that is light, quiet and doesn't over penetrate, but puts a target down with 1 shot- unlike the MP5 that takes several... Load it with 180 - 200 gr .308 Soft Points and chamber it in a steel/carbon straight blowback carbine.
     
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  9. lefty o

    lefty o G&G Evangelist

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    a .45 acp pretty much does what you want , just a larger diameter.
     
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  10. Rob Helms

    Rob Helms G&G Newbie

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    I tried it in a carbine with 180gn cast bullets. The carbines barrel twist, 1 in 17'' is too slow to stabilize a heavy bullet. The tapered case leaves a lot to be desired also. I had much more success with an SKS using 87gn RN lead bullets for a .32 pistol sized .312, WLR Primer, Win Cases

    2.6gr Bullseye 913fps 21Sd 2.5in@50yd quieter than .22LR
    1.9gr Bullseye 626fps 29Sd 4.0in@50yd about like a .22Short
    1.5gr Bullseye 509fps 70Sd 4.5in@50yd about the same as above
    1.0gr Bullseye 0fps Bullet didn't leave barrel, quiet indeed

    I haven't had the chance to experiment with heavier bullets at subsonic Velocities, I have had good results in an SKS with 180gr cast bullets from 1300 - 1700fps. The SKS is reported to have a 1 in 7.5'' twist so it should stabilize heavier bullets more easily.

    The .32 Magnum case would also be a good project for this.
     
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  11. Bountyhunter

    Bountyhunter G&G Newbie

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    A fellow by the name of Ernie Peck in Manhattan, KS converted a small ring Mauser and put a fast twist barrel on it and successfully fired .45 ACP's in it. I say converted, as he had to section the action and remove about two inches and refaced the bolt, etc. This was back about 1970. I doubt that Ernie is still alive. He even had it feeding from the/a magazine.

    With the long barrel, there was very little sound. It was very accurate. He was firing all sorts of different loads in it plenty safely. So if anyone wants to argue with you, take them to talk to Ernie. He named it his Butterfly Magnum.
     
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  12. Calvin

    Calvin G&G Enthusiast

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    SSK Industries came out a few years ago with a .30 Whisper. It was meant to be fired in an M1 Carbine. Parent case was a .221 Fireball and it was loaded with a 200 grain Sierra Match King bullet ahead of an undisclosed amount/type of powder.
    I emailed Mr. Jones about it and he stated that after messing with it for over 3 months, he gave up on it. He stated that the carbine is what it is, and cannot be made into anything more than it already is.
     
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  13. wirehunt

    wirehunt G&G Newbie

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    We used to load subsonic .308 with lead projectiles. Accurate enough for what we wanted, which was despatching pig's over the top of bailing dog's without making them go deaf. Then if we ran into any deer just change over to a full strength load:)

    Stephen
     
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  14. m21black

    m21black G&G Newbie

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    If you want the performance of a 300 whisper build on, any else just falls short unless you go up to the 338 or 500 Whispers.

    As far a the 45 ACP it has it's place in my heart, it is just limited in range and accuracy, keep from 0-50yrds. I haven't shot anything alive over 100 yrds with the Whisper but the ballistics are there out to 400yrds with the 240 grain sierra HPBT.
     
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  15. myarmor

    myarmor G&G Newbie

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    I say just buy a 357 and be done with it. With a decent twist you can shoot a wide range of bullets. Then again, I appreciate the exploration and even mention of firearm related subjects at this point. What about a 30M1 case necked down to accept .224 bullets, or even .17? It's cool to think of the ideas of "new" rounds.
     
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  16. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 Retired Moderator

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    The 30 carbine necked down to accept 224 and 17 caliber bullets has been done, it's been one of the more popular wildcat conversions of that carbine for varmint hunting. I recall seeing some decently priced conversion kits out there back in the day.
     
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  17. m21black

    m21black G&G Newbie

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    30 carbine

    I think Po Ackley did some "under catting" with the 30 carbine, but can we all face it the carbine was ment to sorta replace the 45, more accuate longer range. Sad thing is its a carbine and has less balls than a 45 ACP. Don't get me wrong I would want you shooting at me with one but it was and still is a dog of a cartridge.
     
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  18. DANA

    DANA G&G Newbie

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    Don't knock my M1 Carbines in 45 Win Mag and AE 50. But they went up not down in cal. Both feed single stack out of a standard M1 mags.

    DANA
     
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  19. m21black

    m21black G&G Newbie

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    Too bad the original M1 Carbine wasn't chambered in something like the 45 Win Mag or the 50 AE not that the 30 carbine is bad it's just not a very good man stopper.
     
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