One idea on how they will get yer guns

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by Sniper[MI], Oct 3, 2002.

  1. Howdy,

    I thought this was worth sharing....
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    How Will They Confiscate Your Guns



    For decades I have heard gun owners claim that the government would never be able to confiscate our firearms because the government would lose too many men. The implication being, of course, that gun owners would actively resist confiscation, even to the point of shooting back. But I believe this thinking is outdated and doesn’t align very well with reality. But before you tell me how big your honor guard in Hell will be when that day comes, let’s think about how the government could really do it.
    Suppose, for the sake of argument, the government bans all civilian possession of firearms at the end of this month. Congress passes a total ban and the President cuts his own re-election throat by signing it. Gun owners get some grace period to turn them in, even beyond the deadline, without being charged with a crime. If we use Australia and Britain as examples there will still be a significant number of firearms that are not turned in. Some estimates put the Australian turn-in at less than 25% and the British faired only about 28%. But Australians and the British have long been used to obeying almost every gun control law. Not so the Americans. When laws are passed that we don’t like, we bite. We scratch. We vote. So here we sit after the guns have been collected and the amnesties have run out. Now what? Send out the personnel carriers, swat and shock troops to seize the guns from those militia “terrorists†who refused to turn them in? Don’t be silly.

    The government has lots of records about you. If you purchased a firearm since 1968, chances are that they have some record of it somewhere. Most likely, it will take quite some time for them to compile all the serial numbers of “surrendered†guns (surrendered essentially at gunpoint) and cross off the ones you turned in. It’ll take more time for them to attempt to “clean up†their data. Say, about two years, maybe three. Add to that the hordes of people keypunching in hundreds of thousands of sales and registration records from hundreds of gun stores forced out of business. At some point the government decides they have something approaching a “good†database of unaccounted-for guns.

    The next thing you’ll get from the government is an official looking notice that they think you still have a firearm. Their information will probably include all the information from registration forms, right down to the serial number. That notice will tell you that you’re in violation of the law, subject to prosecution and imprisonment. It will give you some period of time to surrender the gun. It will also give you a very limited number of days to return the form with an explanation of why you don’t have the gun, any proof you have, and your signature that the gun was lawfully disposed of. For many people the idea that the government “knows†they didn’t turn in that pistol or rifle and they have the detailed information about it will be enough to get them to surrender the gun. Some people will ignore the letter, others will scrawl a note that “I sold this in 1982 in a private saleâ€. After some time, the government will figure out how many guns are still out there and what the “compliance rate†is with the gun ban. More importantly, they’ll start sorting their database by the number of guns someone supposedly has “unaccountedâ€.

    If you think they’ll come at these multiple-gun owners with a swat team, guess again. Their most likely tactic will be yet another letter (maybe two more) that generate what they’ll call “insufficient responsesâ€. That means they can’t track a gun after you owned it. This they’ll use as fodder for a search warrant and/or perjury charges at a later date if they can. My guess is that the time between April and August will be a bad time for a lot of “former†gun owners. Remember that the BATF is an arm of the Treasury department and they control the IRS. You’ll probably get a notice in the mail that the IRS has some questions about your taxes or wants to audit you. When you make the appointment to visit the IRS they will pass that information to the BATF. While you are sweating over your deductions, the BATF and local police will execute a search warrant and search your home looking for guns. With you safely off site and distracted, essentially forced into “the royal presence†of the IRS they will snag your guns. Expect them to use slow-scan and ground penetrating radar to search walls, yards, under the patio or deck, the basement, etc. You might even find your hot tub has been drained and moved. Yes, they’ll search your car in the IRS parking lot too.

    If you are one of the those people they suspect of having multiple guns and they don’t find any guns at your home, expect them to find and search storage facilities, safety deposit boxes and other places you might use. Warn your relatives who live nearby that they can expect a visit too, even (or perhaps especially) if they never owned a gun. If they are thorough, I’d expect the government agents to check your neighbors to see which of them previously owned a gun and perhaps search their homes, arguing that your neighbor could have held your guns while agents searched your home. Remember that at this point the government authorities don’t have much to fear from the general population. And by the time your complaints are run through the mill, rejected and turned into lawsuits, they’ll have changed the rules.

    But you only have one gun you say? Fine. They won’t come looking for it. But they will make sure that possession of ammunition is also a serious crime. Don’t leave any loose cartridges around and where will you hide that case of ammo you rushed out to buy? Expect any “gun parts†to be made illegal at some point in time too. Spare magazines, maybe even old cleaning kits. Anything that says “gun†will be interpreted as “probable cause†to search your entire home. Also expect that you can never use that gun without becoming a serious felon in the eyes of the government. Even if some thug has repeatedly stabbed you with a large knife and threatened to rape your six year old daughter, they won’t forgive you for having the gun. They may even give you extra penalties for using it to save your family. Especially if you are one of the first few hundred people caught this way, they will use you to “set an exampleâ€. This will cause people to “bury†their guns away in hiding places, making them all but useless. If the government does come to confiscate it, you won’t be able to get to it fast enough and they will probably find it.

    You’ve moved several times since you bought a gun? Remember showing your ID when you bought a gun? Remember writing down your place of birth? Why do you think the government has so many computers? Linking you to your new driver’s license in another state shouldn’t be too hard. Besides, the Treasury folks know where you work. Think you’re safe because you had unregistered guns? Think again. I would expect that the government’s database will contain a lot of old data. Some of it might indicate that a gun was sold to a resident at your address. If they can tie you to ammo sales or range use with your credit card in the previous 2 years you might get a surprise visit. Or that seller might have remembered you bought that gun from him and filled out his gun notice to get “off the hook†for that gun.

    The point of this article is that by thinking in limited terms of a “raid†to confiscate guns we lose sight of the alternative methods the government can use. Put yourself in the government’s position and think of your own methods to avoid a conflict. Meanwhile, let’s ensure that every gun owner votes for gun rights this year and the next. You can think of a thousand excuses not to vote, not to help a campaign, not to help another gun owner register to vote. I can think of one important reason to do all of those.

    Liberty~~~


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    Lazarus
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  2. Logansdad

    Logansdad Guest

    What about the NRA

    Don't forget to join the NRA...but the enrollment list of the NRA will be the first one used to build a confiscation database on...do it anyway :nod: :assult:
     

  3. NRAJOE

    NRAJOE YOU TALKIN' TO ME!? Forum Contributor

    From my cold dead hands man, and I'm not kidding.
     
  4. A couple of months ago a similar thread to this was posted. I can't remember who started it but I remember I commented.

    In my comment I made mention about a law that dang near passed in 1999 that would've allowed the IRS to require you to declare the guns you have and pay a fee. NOT to get much money but rather a ploy to get a percentage of gun owners to think that, "Hey, a $10 a year fee is nothing big" and then they have some info.

    I also remember some very naiive people commenting that there isn't any way they could confiscate our guns and there isn't enough law enforcement available to pull off a stunt.

    One person even had the gall to say the form we fill out to buy a gun doesn't go into ATF and, therefore, means diddly. Even though the gun stores are require to keep them forever.....matched with sales receipts. What in hell's name do you think the ATF is gonna go for when the walk up and ask a gun store owner for all those forms and sales receipts?

    I think some people need to wake up and realize if the government wants to pull a stunt they are gonna have their ducks in a row and have the manpower to at least attempt it.

    I, for one, will resist...but what is the actual percentage of people who will give in? Who knows? I can tell you there will be far more that turn belly up than hold true to the belief!

    I'm here to tell ya the government knows more about you than you will ever realize!

    And here's something to contimplate:

    If your wives, children and grandchildren were placed in a position of harm versus giving in.....what would you do?
     
    Last edited: Oct 3, 2002
  5. NRAJOE

    NRAJOE YOU TALKIN' TO ME!? Forum Contributor

    I will fire on anyone out to do harm upon my family for sure!
     
  6. Doglips

    Doglips Guest

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    Unfortinutaly I actualy belive the sanero was TO accurate and WILL happen...sooner or later. Like the NRA poster says they will call your rifle a "sniper rifle"...and the list goes on and on....dont doubt the IRS thing ...course Im alread on the IRS's pigglett list .... spent a lot of my free time down at their office this year....the IRS makes BATF look like some realy nice people :). As for the old cold dead hands approach.........well I dont see the goverment showing up at a decent hour knocking on the door and asking you nicely to hand over your toys...sure we will wait on the porch well you get them mister "gun nut"...not I suspect it will the 3am flash bang...MP5 in your face wake up call and if you even get close enough to tuch the triger lock/smart gun tecknology saftes on your pistol you will become a crash test dummy for the 9mm vs 45acp stoping power debate.

    I read a few things to try in terms of messing with the search of your home/yard....one board suggested that you get a bunch of old rail road spikes and burry them in your yard..side ways (not a booby trap punji stick)...to screew with the metal detectors....course some recomend stashing a few rifles on public land and other such places......

    Ive always belived that the next revalution will be the Rich and Pwerfull revolting....or more correctly assumeing absalute poer and control...I figured it would be more of a electronic monatoring...enforcement set up.....your car will turn off if you leave a set area or enter an unauthorized area....same with the "debit/credit" card thing...all $$ will be direct deposited...all transaction will be via debit type card...no paper $$....buy too much beer/booze...get a court order in the mail for substance abuse counseling....no cash $$ means that drug dealers would be quickly sopted by a computer program...humm doglips dont work..but all these people give him $$...oh Hi officer what are you doing at my door :) Course robbing a bank would be out...ok place a million $ in my account...yes Ill wait for the police :)
    Oh well not reason to worry about it for now...just got off work and promised the ATF agents int he van accorss the street Id run up to McDonalds and get them some food :)
     
  7. I'm sure you will, Joe. And I would to.

    What I meant is that I would like to think most of us would group our families together if the chit ever hit the fan.

    But, it'd be a rough decision putting your family in harms way or giving up your guns to save them from that harm.

    And, if the big boys decide to do a round up I really don't see them having the same interest in the bolt action rifles, revolvers, etc. as they would semis that could quickly and easily be converted to full auto and used more effectively against them.
     
  8. PAPA G

    PAPA G G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    i believe they would go after everything, including that family heirloom from 1776!!! after the amnisty is over, and they have calculated whats still out it will be house to house with metal detectors and wrecking bars. you could do the from my cold dead hands routine. but what you gonna do when a blue helmet has your kid with an MP-5 at his head???
     
  9. lefty o

    lefty o G&G Evangelist

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    that blue helmet just got a new hole in it!
     
  10. BenP

    BenP Guest

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    I've had many opportunities to think this scenario out. The conclusion I reaced is that if the government is going to make me a criminal, then I will act like one. Surrendering my only means of defense is really not an option. It would mean giving up my current job, home, and most of what I own, and either relocating somewhere I can survive with what I have, or else taking the fight to my new enemy. I will use the tools I have to gather what I need to make it happen either way. My chances for success are quite low. They improve slightly if I find others of like mind and ability. I can tell you this, I won't be waiting for them to come to me.

    My prediction is that eventually this country will become as socialist as the rest of the world, and we will lose our right to keep and bear arms. I and many like me will die trying to defend the past, but it seems inevitable now that we are doomed to this fate. That does not diminish my determination to fight for what I believe in, but I realize it is a hopeless battle when it does finally come.
     
  11. Doglips

    Doglips Guest

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    Im all for banding togeher...but I guess the pesamist in me does not see it happening until its too late and we are too few. I mean its great to band togher after the storm...course the trick is to prevent (best) or band togher before the storm....and I dont see too many people doing that.
     
  12. Somewhere in some secret office men and women have discussed what is being discussed here. And you can bet that, at the great length they did, an probably still are, they have discussed every conceivable scenario available.

    When the day comes the first instinct we will have is the survival of ourselves and families. Our minds might suggest finding others like us, but for the moment the long range is self preservation.

    Those who draw on white boards have realized that and they know we will be split to the four winds and chess move is to block off ways and avenues to prevent our types from mustering. To prevent that they know it's just a matter of systematic elimination of what they perceive as a threat from us.

    Once they root you from your home you're on the run. If they can keep you on the defense, in very small numbers, you never have the chance to become an offensive.

    Gentlemen, I see it (if it's ever told accurately) as a time when our types will become just a few pages in some history books but, in the long run....we will go by the way of the Neandertal man; surviving the best we can with very **** little...fighting the elements as well as an enemy until we finally become extinct.

    For me, when possible, I'm conserving ammo for food and to acquire what I need to live on.

    That's not a defeatest attitude....but rather one of realism.

    I doubt very much if I will ever see it but there are some younger ones in here that just might.

    For me, the safest place to relocate to is interior of the Navajo Nation. I don't have to worry about being snitched out, I can find shelter, food and water, etc. and the Navajo people will aggressively resist any volume of boot jacks coming around.
     
    Last edited: Oct 4, 2002
  13. NRAJOE

    NRAJOE YOU TALKIN' TO ME!? Forum Contributor

    I'm half Cherokee Dale, will you guys let me in with ya? :confused: :)
     
  14. Benny

    Benny Guest

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    You guys are right, this is a very real scenario. People hear this and don't want to believe it. They pass it off as right wing conspiracy. It's sad those people can't think for themselves, it looks like the government is already doing it for them. With all this social engineering going on in schools it's only a matter of time. If they dumb down the majority then they will believe what is fed to them. I try and tell all my friends this and some of them don't believe it and some do. The point is we need to get the word out now and do what we can now. Vote, join the NRA, teach people to shoot. Do all you can so that this doesn't just become a page in history. There are those out there that want to take our freedoms from us, let's stop this however we can.

    Benny
     
  15. Benny

    Benny Guest

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    Just as a side note...

    I just remembered something that happened to me recently that's kind of suspicious. Where I go to college at they just switched from hard copy key locks to key cards, the kind with the magnetic strip. Anyway, they didn't tell us this when they put it in but a computer logs all of your card activity. I logs what time you come in, when you leave etc. Kind of scary and it'll make you think twice about using key cards.

    Benny
     
  16. NRAJOE

    NRAJOE YOU TALKIN' TO ME!? Forum Contributor

    Their coming to take you away ha ha...:assult: :nod:
     
  17. BenP

    BenP Guest

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    Fight or flight. When the time comes, the response will be dictated by the actions of the offender. If they come out aggressively, we will have to flee or perish. If they take a more limited approach initially, we will have a chance to take the initiative ourselves, either individually or in groups. As long as they're willing to fight a limited war, we have a chance, just like the NVA did.
     
  18. wes

    wes Guest

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    Right Ben,and don't forget the Afghan rebels took on the Russian Army.
     
  19. Joe, it goes without saying that, if the chit hit the fan, you and anyone in this forum would be more than welcome in the nation.

    Can you imagine the party we could have?

    Just remember if the BIA police stop ya and tell ya they wanna search the vehicle...don't ask a dumb question like, "What probable cause do you have?"

    You see they don't have the same probable cause laws to search...they can...and any time, lol. "go fetch that black Suburban's contents fer us, he he he he".

    Whoa!
     
  20. PAPA G

    PAPA G G&G Evangelist Forum Contributor

    Wes the Afghans beat the Ruskies, because the Ruskies had little sense of purpose, little motivation, and poor tactics. wonder how we would have done with out the techno-weapons!!! on the other hand we had the advantage over the VC/NVA in techno-weapons, and resupply. and look where that went!!!:eek: :fuss: :assult: