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One Shot Stop...minamum calaber?

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by Doglips, May 2, 2002.

  1. Doglips

    Doglips G&G Newbie

    Ok like they say on that cooking show..lets kick it up a notch.
    What is your beliefe in one shot stopping power? What is the minimum calaber you believe is acceptable for self defense?
    Come on get the soap boxes out and chime in!

    ME: I do not believe any (Yep ANY too include 50 cal BMG) is capable ALWAYS produecing a 1 stop shot.
    I believe that no one fires 1 shot and goes..gee mister bad guy are you done...I believe that people shoot untill gun goes click...so for self defense one can use a 32acp or bigger (not a fan of the 25acp) and do just fine as long as they practice with it.
     
  2. JohnD

    JohnD Member

    I think any high power like .270 and up with balistic tip ammo would make a one stop shot if hit in the gut even or in the leg. Losing a leg woud make them fall over at least. Handgun ammo is another mater.. I have no experience with handguns on game so I do not have an opinion on that.
     

  3. jerry

    jerry Since 2002 Forum Contributor

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    agree the mythical one shot stop is just that. If I were to throw my hat in the ring I'd go with the .357 Mag. 125 grain JHP in various configurations. from the propaganda I've seen, this has a good "street" record.
     
  4. Klaus

    Klaus G&G Newbie

    Yup, the .357 mag is bout as good as the .40. For defense, I recommend at least a .380 (9x17). If I need a really small concealed handgun, I carry a 2 shot derringer, either .38 spl or 9 mm, rather than go with a mouse caliber. Now I admit a .32 or even .22 is better than nothing, but don't expect the target to be instantly incapacitated. I can not recommend the .25 at all. There are much more powerful rounds available in pistols of that size. If you only have a .25, I would suggest emptying it in the attacker's face and running away fast. Do not try to check if they are dead or anything. Run, find a safe spot, call the cops.
     
  5. I'm with Klaus. Given the choice between a stcik or a knife and a .22 rimfire, I'll take the .22 and work the shot placement angle. That beng said, I feel most confident with 9mm Para or better,
     
  6. I'll put in my two cents.
    Hand gun: 45acp JHP or Silver tip
    Rifle: 12 ga. deer slug.
    either one if it hits the knock down is enough to let you get away.
    this is for self defence right? so we are only talking about a few feet at best. other wise its called shooting back or first as the case may be.
     
  7. .357 with a 158gr. JHP. Shot a javelina with this once and it was dead before it hit the ground. Very impressive exit wound. As for the .25 auto many years ago here in Tucson a bad guy tried robbing a convenience store and shot the clerk in the forehead. The bullet didnt penetrate the skull but it traveled under the skin and stopped on the side of his head. You could see the lump where the bullet was under the skin. It didnt even knock the clerk down. This scared the bad guy and he ran but was caught a little while later.
     
  8. jerry

    jerry Since 2002 Forum Contributor

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    I think I remember that story when I lived in Tucson. was that about 92~94? If you get a chance, go up to Mt Lemon and make a snow ball for me!
     
  9. FireStar

    FireStar G&G Newbie

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    I personally would recommend what I carry... .40S&W with a 180 grain Winchester Black Talon.
     
  10. 7mmag6

    7mmag6 G&G Newbie

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    that depends on where you are. if at home, milatary ball will go through your intruder, your neighbors house, and maybe thier neighbors house. nothing beats a 12 gauge with good old buckshot
     
  11. johno

    johno G&G Newbie

    not much experience with handguns, but i'd go with a .45 or a .357
    my favorite one shot load though is a 12ga buck or slug
     
  12. Benny

    Benny G&G Newbie

    I would have to go with .45 ACP Silver tip and 12 gauge buck shot or slug on this one too. :)

    Benny
     
  13. That story about the 25 that went under the scalp. Seen that but with a 22. I was standing in the ER of our local hospital when this old (70 something) woman came in with a policeman handcuffed. turns out she tried to end it with her late husbands 22 and shot herself inthe forhead at point blank rang the bullet went right up the scalp and stoped just shot of the hair line only about 3 inches of travle. I remember this only because of what she said when the doctor asked her what hapened and she said she should have used the 45 but she didn't have the strength to pull the slide back.
    One of those things that tends to stick with you. Guttsy old broad walked out of the ER into the surgery room. Wouldn't let them wheel her in she said I walked in I'll walk out.
    with stubornes like that she must of had some Irish her.
     
  14. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    I won't thumb my nose at a 9mm or disrespect those who carry them, but I wouldn't feel right with less than a 40 S&W or 38 Spec or better. My ultimate preference would be the 45 ACP.
    For a CCW, maybe a CZ-52, since it's so easy to carry. Maybe a 40 if it's significantly more concealable without sacrificing too much barrel length. But if at all possible, 45. Just my barely educated preferences. Inside, it would be 12ga for few intruders, SKS with hollowpoints for 3 or more.
     
  15. Rock

    Rock G&G Newbie

    Doglips, I think the 50 BMG would be a one shot stop,if the guys not dead he sure is not Happy...I would go along with Benny,the 45 ACP or 12ga slug has put a quick stop to a fight.If you are fireing at range anything above a 223rem will get your point across....
     
  16. JUSTAGUY

    JUSTAGUY G&G Newbie

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    Glad I came to this site. Thanks B. D.

    Now, on th' subject a th' "one shot stop". Am Ah th' ony one who finks abaht th' repercushins ah akchu'lly shootin' somebody? Yeah, I know one 'r two a yez maht come back on me raht naw an' carry on abaht th' repercushins ah NOT shootin' but th' freakin' laws these days jis' burn me. Ya shoot somebody, sef defense 'r no matter wut th' condishons,

    #1 At LEAS', ya probably gotta git ya a lawyer. That one alone kin cost ya th' equity on yer house these days. Maybe the whole freakin' farm bah th' tahm yer done wif it all.

    #2 At MOS', wit da freakin' laws an' all, ya might have ta get a lawyer AN' do some tahm whalst the #%&*in' legal system fig'rs out JIST WHO'S GUILTY A WUT!! Dey gona be scratchin' dey butts th' whole tahm too. Slower'n molasses in Jan'warry. As fer doin' th' tahm, I ain't quaht ready ta become some big hairy motha's "girlfriend".

    Now, I kaint be th' ony guy here who ever taught ah it dis way. Somebody gimme a break.

    C'mon ahead now. I'm sittin' raht cheer "ARMED" an', well.... not too sure about the "READY" part.

    Pas' milkin' tahm nah, Ah gotta git. You boys take care an' 'member ta look bof ways b'fer ya shoot.

    JIS'AGUY,
    Pituee, burrup!
     
  17. BenP

    BenP G&G Newbie

    As far as one shot stops, the 125 gr JHP in 357 mag was king for a couple decades in Law Enforcement. As bullet design advanced, 38 sp +p+ is pretty close to the old 357 round. I don't know if you can wring enough velocity out of the 9mms to get them up to 357 mag levels. I consider them margninal loads for self defense, but they are a darn sight better than the sub calibers. Nowadays, high capacity 40s and 45s seem to be the best bet for one shot stops, just edging out the old 357 mag statistics. Still, nothing beats the 12 ga pump loaded with alternating buck and slug. Of course, the old carriage load 12 ga side by side was pretty awesome, especially when you pulled both triggers at once.

    As far as considering whether or not to use lethal force in self defense, you have to decide I guess if you would rather be tried by twelve than carried by six. Once you've made up your mind, you need to be resolved to do the deed with the determination that incapacitating the assailant is all that matters. I won't empty a clip in someone unless they're still coming, cuz an empty gun is pretty much useless in a lethal confrontation. I will keep shooting until I feel that the target is immobilized, then keep track of the opponent until the situation is secured.

    Shooting someone is a tough business. Watching your kids and wife get raped and murdered while you're being held at knife or gunpoint is a wholly intolerable notion. I know which one I'd choose without hesitation. Worry about the consequences of my actions later. Any thing the law could do to me and mine afterwards is insignificant compared with the imminent threat of violent criminal action.
     
  18. JUSTAGUY

    JUSTAGUY G&G Newbie

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    Ben,

    Point well taken.You're right, tough call there. Hope I never have to make it, or any of us for that mater.

    I would like to would point out that it wouldn't have anything to do with my "conscience".

    I just wanted to bring up the notion that things are usually not as simple as they seem.

    Thanks for the logic,
    JUSTAGUY
     
  19. Shaun

    Shaun G&G Evangelist

    Good subject -- your right in defense the reality is that anyone should keep firing until there is no longer a threat. I don't like the idea of a single shot for the reason that the attacker may survive the first.

    As for the mythical One stop I agree with Klaus

    depending on my mood and what I am wearing I carry a 357 with 125 grain Golden Sabers that I have loaded at 1200fps. A 45 ACP with 230grain JHP ( I refer to them as flying ashtrays) or a 9mm with 147gr JHP's loaded at 1150fps.

    For home defense if I have to revert to a long gun any high power rifle would stop an attack immediately - Or the shotgun with a rotating load of 00 and Slugs is always an option.

    The thought of a 22 or 25 is one thing I would never recommend to anyone I worked with a deputy who had been shot in the face 9 times on a traffic stop. His sunglasses (Gargoyles) stopped two rounds and the other 7 did not do much damage. the BG took off running and a .223 55 grain hollow point caught up to him square in the chest when he turned around.

    The 25 is a joke I know of instances where a leather or down jacket has stopped the rounds.
     
  20. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    I knew the 25s were weak, but not that weak. Now, can someone explain the reason for alternating buck and slugs? I always thought the thing to do is escalate from warning-type loads to slugs as a last resort. Personally, I don't see how a direct hit with a slug would not stop an attacker. I've blown many things up with slugs and think of them as the ultimate in defense ammunition.
    Some people disagree with me on this, but I think if one has the magazine capacity, one should include less-than-lethal shells for the satisfaction of the courts, or if it just happens to be sufficient to change your intruder's mind about attacking you. Considering that most crime in my area is done by kids, a non-deadly reality check may do the trick. Killing a kid would kill you in court, not to mention putting a huge weight on your concience. Plus, if you did have to finish an intruder, he would have already given you the message that he's willing to attack someone with a loaded gun.

    Somehow, I think seeing a mil-spec Mossberg 590 with an M9 bayonet on it might stop plenty of intruders. That's one part of a long gun that people might think twice about grabbing.