Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by Mon Bathan, Jun 12, 2002.

  1. Mon Bathan

    Mon Bathan Guest

    I read a material that says"parabellum comes from acient latin saying Si vis Parcem, Parabellum which means If you want peace prepare for war'.

    Please enrich my understanding about the subject, what makes a a pistol a parabellum or why is it being referred to as parabellum? Does this have anything to do with make, caliber, etc?

    Anyone please?

  2. Klaus

    Klaus Guest

    Para = for. Bellum = War. Georg Luger named the cartridge.

  3. Kyrie

    Kyrie G&G Newbie

    Hi Mon Bathan,

    The last few years of the 19th century saw the development of the first truly reliable self-loading pistols, and a big push among the major arms makers to supply national armies self-loading pistols to replace their now obsolescent revolvers. A part of this push was some serious advertising. The Mauser C96 was marketed as the “Mauser Military Pistolâ€￾ in hopes of selling many millions of C96’s to the national armies of the world. DWM, with their Borchardt/Luger, did much the same thing and marketed their pistol as the Parabellum (“For Warâ€￾) pistol.

    The Luger was the winner. It was so successful that DMW used “Parabellumâ€￾ as their telex address.

    Warm regards,

  4. FEG

    FEG Guest



    I never thought of it as a marketing label before, but that does explain the use of Latin (for greater recognition in other parts of Western Europe).

    If memory serves me correctly, 9mm is still the largest diameter pistol cartridge of European origin, and it was definitely "big bore" for European pistols around the turn of the last century. (This is limited to pistols; Webley revolvers obviously fired bullets of larger diameters.) There are more powerful European pistol cartridges, but they have smaller bullet diameters. By all this, I mean the "Parabellum" designation has not been false advertising... It is now the most powerful "standard" service pistol cartridge in Europe.

    I call 9mm "bon ami" : a good friend!
  5. Logansdad

    Logansdad Guest

    It can be confusing to neophytes...It is called the 9mm Luger, 9 x 19 NATO....not to be confused with 9 x17 Kurz or Corto (.380 ACP), 9x18 Makarov, Bergmann Bayard & a host of different and sometimes obscure (for us Americans) calibers
  6. Klaus

    Klaus Guest

    I still think the .40 S&W should have been called a 10mm, and the original 10 mm should have been called a magnum.
  7. One thing that has always perplexed me is that caliber definitions are somtimes confusing.

    For example we know that .40 caliber means the bullet is approximately 40/100ths of an inch in diameter.

    Most of use know that 7.62 bullet is close to .30 caliber or 30/100ths of an inch across.

    However, it confuses me when someone wants me to explain what 6.5, for example, equates to in 100ths of an inch.

    Or when trying to explain that the 39 on 7.62 is the length of the cartridge in milimeters, etc. and then the question comes up...'Well, then why doesn't designations such as .45 caliber have cartridge designation of milimeter length? I have no clue!

    I have searched the net high and low and have never found a good conversion/comparison chart. So, if anyone knows of a site I can use for referrence or download a chart, please let me know.

    And then you have the ever perplexing 9MM round. It isn't designated such as 7.62 X 24, or whatever it would equate to.

    The only thing I can think of is that calibers in .30, .45, .44 magnum, etc. are an American thing and designations such as 7.62 X 65, 6.5 X 55 ,etc. is a European influenced thing.
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2002
  8. jarcp

    jarcp Guest

    You are very correct. Europe has always listed a round as mm(cal)xmm(length of case) where americans seem to name cartridges off the cuff. The .30-06 rfers to the bullet size and year of manf. the mmxmm is pretty easy to figure out but if it's in imperial meaurments, you'll just to have read up on the history of the round to get the whole story. And the 9mm is designated 9x19.
  9. Klaus

    Klaus Guest

    That is the NATO designation. It is also called 9mmP or 9mm Para on many many European pistols. A lot of the metric designations are wrong, too. The best example is the 7.65 mm round (.32 ACP). It is actually over 8 mm. For an example of the 9mm P designation, on a European gun, simply look at the photo of my Star Super which I posted on an earlier thread here. The slide is clearly stamped 9m/m P. That is the original factory stamp.
    Last edited: Jun 17, 2002
  10. jarcp

    jarcp Guest

    Klaus, you are quite right, another instance is the 9x18 Makarov. In reality it's a 9.3x18. the 9x18 ultra is a true 9mm. But in general, as a rule of thumb, European's mark their ammo mmxmm and Americans mark it however they want to.
  11. Logansdad

    Logansdad Guest

    Those Europeans have that whole metric system going on over there (Royal with cheese) we name our cartridges after Sponsers & inventors (.40 S&W, 308 Winchester, .223 Remington) then they get tricky like 7mm-08 (.308 necked down to 7mm) and 25-06 (30-06 necked down to 25 caliber).
  12. Mike southers

    Mike southers Guest

    6.5 = .264 in diameter. I have a .260 Rem which shoots the 6.5mm bullets.
    Elmer Keith didn't care for .42 magnum or .43 magnum, so he named the cartridge the .44 Magnum, even though the bullet is .429" in diameter. Same thing with the .444 Marlin. Shoots a .429" bullet.
    "An Illustrated Reference of Cartridge Dimensions" will give you case and bullet sizes to include other names of certain ammo.
    I have a J.P. Sauer gamekeeper's rifle chambered in .360 x 57. Mess your head up. It is alo known as the 9.3 x 57 rimmed, or the .360 Nitro Express 2 1/4".
    A Ruger M77V in my possesion is stamped on the barrel "7mmEXP Rem. or .280 Rem.