[Wicked109]

Just thought you might like to stay abreast of the latest change...

GOP lawmakers, NRA slam ATF rule to regulate pistol braces: 'Unconstitutional overreach'

Republican lawmakers and gun rights groups slammed the Biden administration after ATF finalized a new rule regulating pistols equipped with a stabilizing brace accessory as a short-barreled rifle.

www.foxnews.com

 

[Jack Flash]

If this goes thru, I can't imagine how long it would take the ATF to go thru millions of form 1 applications.

I have 8 tax stamps I paid $200 each for. From what I've read, I'd get this one free.

 

[PaleHawkDown]

So...what happens to all the ones that stores have in inventory? I mean, the most advanced gun I have on the wall of my shop is an SKS, and the second most advanced is an SVT-40, so I'm not worried, but the shop down the road has literally hundreds of such pistols. Most stores around here are maybe 70% "black guns" and maybe 20% of those are pistols of some sort.

Unless those stores have a "Class 3", are they just out? Can they send the guns back and get their money back?

 

[Ranger4]

So...what happens to all the ones that stores have in inventory? I mean, the most advanced gun I have on the wall of my shop is an SKS, and the second most advanced is an SVT-40, so I'm not worried, but the shop down the road has literally hundreds of such pistols. Most stores around here are maybe 70% "black guns" and maybe 20% of those are pistols of some sort.

Unless those stores have a "Class 3", are they just out? Can they send the guns back and get their money back?

When the government makes something illegal, there is no taking by the government. Whoever owns 1 or 100 has to get rid of them or register them all or whatever.

Some of the original braces remain legal. If you have read the massive final rule, they have pictures. A true stabilizing brace that lets the pistol be fired with one hand is still legal, just like originally.

The change now is they have named all of the full size gadgets that by design are to be fired from the shoulder. The arms brace which is designed for one hand firing are nothing like the current item being sold as braces. Go look at the pictures in the final rule. Look at the HONEY BADGER RIFLE AND THE HONEY BADGER PISTOL WITH BRACE. They are 99% the same.

If the brace is as long as a buttstock, functions like a buttstock by fitting into the shoulder when fired, then it is a buttstock. That part is pretty logical actually.

Every business owner has known these were probably going to be banned sooner or later, so if they bought too many, looks like they are going to take a loss. Whether the manufacturer would take them back is anybody's guess.

As far as the pistols on store shelves the final rule basically says they can take then off and still sell them, or they could sell them with one of the approved original braces that are still approved. Those are by design fit against the forearm, and many have a velco strap on them.

That entire short rifle law needs to be thrown out. Meanwhile, folks should be cautious buying new one.

Same deal with bump stocks, who knows how that will eventually play out.

 

[reverendg]

To my thinking, the biggest reason they keep such confusing rules is that it scares off most people from even trying to navigate the rules, most people just avoid those weapons period. Then when “they” decide later on to ban them altogether they can bring up how these firearms are only used by a small number of “extreme” owners…making a case that such a ban only disarms scary people.

 

[BattleRifleG3]

So if we don't have one already, is it too late to get a free SBR stamp?

 

[austinjoe13]

So, if I take the brace off, I’m good?

 

[MoosemanOK 684]

You can remove the Brace and its a pistol. You can change Barrel to 16" and it's a rifle ! There are other things you can do too.
I read what you have to do using E form 1 by ATF's regs , photo , fingerprints,Gun maker and serial number, they send a form back you take to your CLEO (not sure if it has to be signed by them yet) , all your personal data and this is for a gun you already own. They claim it will take 90 days. I say BS ! (it takes over a year to get a suppressor form processed !)
There is fixing to be Huge Lawsuits over this by FPC , GOA and others so stay tuned. ATF just got beat with the Bump stock Ruling by the 5th Circuit Court , and since there would be criminal penalties, they cannot use Chevron Deference with Pistol Braces, So there is a good Chance ATF is gonna LOSE in court over this, since Like Bump stocks, they have been legal for many years , and Congress makes laws , NOT ATF !
History AND tradition that now comes into play by the Bruen decision can show that prior to 1934 there were pistols with stocks and Rifles with barrels shorter than 16 inches that were commonly owned. The NFA is also being challenged now too.
ATF is just throwing all kinds of CRAP against the wall to see what sticks as a puppet regime of the Biden Administration.
Rich

 

[Jack Flash]

You can remove the Brace and its a pistol. You can change Barrel to 16" and it's a rifle ! There are other things you can do too.
I read what you have to do using E form 1 by ATF's regs , photo , fingerprints,Gun maker and serial number, they send a form back you take to your CLEO (not sure if it has to be signed by them yet) , all your personal data and this is for a gun you already own. They claim it will take 90 days. I say BS ! (it takes over a year to get a suppressor form processed !)

You don't need any CLEO sign off on a form 1 now. Not sure when they stopped that. The first 3 stamps I got had to have the sign off back in 2011, but I've done 5 more in the past 2 years that only say you have to mail a copy of your approved form 1 to your local sheriff's office. I did.

One thing they did add to a eForm 1 is you have to send pics of the manufactures markings and serial number of the gun.

I sent 3 off in 2021 that took 17 days to approve. Sent one off last April that took 10 days, and my last one was last June that took 25 days. I did hear the wait times on the eForms is sometimes around 60 days now.

That was in normal times. If millions of people start sending them in...it may take years.

I logged into my ATF account yesterday and they already have the tax free eForm 1 available on their site. I filled one out, but won't submit it till we see what's going to happen.

 

[Oakleaf]

I just want the NRA or somebody to take this to the courts, up to the Supreme Court if needed, and have it overturned.

I don't own any guns that are affected by this. Doesn't mean they have the right to do it to other people.

 

[MoosemanOK 684]

I do NOT want My Sheriff , or ATF or anyone else knowing what guns I may Have if I am not under investigation , and this is just more tyranny and Infringements on the 2A , and so I won't have a pistol with a brace for now !

 

[austinjoe13]

Bravo to our fearless bureaucrats. The streets will be safer because of their wisdom and leadership. Surely this will save millions of lives.

 

[Jack Flash]

I do NOT want My Sheriff , or ATF or anyone else knowing what guns I may Have if I am not under investigation , and this is just more tyranny and Infringements on the 2A , and so I won't have a pistol with a brace for now !

But you can legally have cool stuff with tax stamps!

 

[Ranger4]

But you can legally have cool stuff with tax stamps!

Stamp collection?

 

[455rocket]

My brother sent his form 1 in last April or May and is still waiting on it. What's going to happen if they get a flood of forms for everyone who has a SBR (aka-AR Pistol) submitting forms all within this 120-day tax free period? The system will crash and there will be years of waiting to get approved. All of this for a something that infringes on our rights to start with.

I wish that someone could use some logic, facts, or accurate data to explain how these rules actually make any sense and make America safer, other than them wanting to make us subjects of a tyrannical government or newly self-appointed king.

I also wish they would require our gov't. officials to pass a history & gov't. class before being allowed to represent us, clearly some of them don't have a clue. Disarming the people has never worked out well for the people, regardless of which country it's been.

• 1911: Turkey; citizens disarmed – 1.5 million Armenians were slaughtered
• 1929: Russia; citizens disarmed – 20 million Russians murdered
• 1935: China; citizens disarmed – 20 million Chinese killed
• 1938: Germany; citizens disarmed – 6 million Jews murdered
• 1956: Cambodia; citizens disarmed – 1 million “intellectuals” killed
• 1964: Guatemala; citizens disarmed – 100,000 Mayan Indians massacred

 

[PaleHawkDown]

I recently had a gentleman in the store who inherited an MP40, and got his stamp decades ago. He said he had it just two months when he was awoken at 2 am by pounding on the door. It was law enforcement demanding to see his gun. He complied, and while they were inspecting it they told him that they were investigating a shooting in Birmingham where someone had used an "unidentified" full auto 9mm, and they were investigating all known stamp holders with 9mm weapons.

He said he was woken up a second time a year later, same story. He sold it to a dealer the next day.

As he told this story another guy started laughing. He always wanted a full auto AK, saved up for it, went through all the hoops, and had the gun less than a week, before he got a similar visit. He read that when the thugs were later caught in that shooting, they were using a semi-auto Draco with a drum mag.

He asked a cop buddy how often Dracos are used in crimes in Birmingham, didn't like the answer, and got rid of his a few weeks later.

I don't think I'd want a tax stamp gun - at least not this close to Birmingham where we had 142 fatal shootings last year, hundreds more non-fatal ones, and who knows how many that aren't reported (almost all gang-related).

 

[Ranger4]

I recently had a gentleman in the store who inherited an MP40, and got his stamp decades ago. He said he had it just two months when he was awoken at 2 am by pounding on the door. It was law enforcement demanding to see his gun. He complied, and while they were inspecting it they told him that they were investigating a shooting in Birmingham where someone had used an "unidentified" full auto 9mm, and they were investigating all known stamp holders with 9mm weapons.

He said he was woken up a second time a year later, same story. He sold it to a dealer the next day.

As he told this story another guy started laughing. He always wanted a full auto AK, saved up for it, went through all the hoops, and had the gun less than a week, before he got a similar visit. He read that when the thugs were later caught in that shooting, they were using a semi-auto Draco with a drum mag.

He asked a cop buddy how often Dracos are used in crimes in Birmingham, didn't like the answer, and got rid of his a few weeks later.

I don't think I'd want a tax stamp gun - at least not this close to Birmingham where we had 142 fatal shootings last year, hundreds more non-fatal ones, and who knows how many that aren't reported (almost all gang-related).

I agree, I do not want one. Part of the problem is the gun industry. They tried to manipulate the foolish reg and got conflicting info from the ATF. Example. This is what people selling them are calling a pistol.

Regardless of how we got here. Calling that a pistol and claiming it is not a short barreled rifle is stupid. Almost as stupid as ATF calling this a machine gun.

Below is a pistol "brace" originally approved for people with one arm to be able to fire an AT "pistol'.

How many people at the ranges have you ever seen using one with the brace? How many people with one arm have you seen firing an AR?

The law is goofy to say the least, but you have to wonder about the people trying to manipulate the regs. You cannot honestly call that thing above a machine gun, and you cannot call that little rifle a pistol.

Nope, do not want one at my house.

 

[Wicked109]

I did go and read the ATF Pistol Brace regulation and I'm good with what I have. The only thing I can't do is shoulder it. No problem, but you can tuck it into your cheek and the red dot lines up perfectly with your eyes.
I do expect a legal challenge on this new regulation and It would be great if they would reduce it down to two categories, either pistol or rifle and do away with the SBR category and the need for a $200 stamp.
The main thing is we need to do is to use the firearm in a safe manner, to me it doesn't matter how you hold it to be accurate.

 

[Wicked109]

The Shockwave pistol brace did get an approval letter from the ATF a few years back without restrictions on it's use but ATF did amend it later to say fairly recently you can't shoulder it.

 

[BigEd63]

So if we don't have one already, is it too late to get a free SBR stamp?

Nope you can buy the set up or the entire pistol.
However, I'd not do it
They're setting this up for some sort of trap.
It'll be approximately 4 months before the deadline. And that's plenty of time to get a gist of how the courts handle this. As currently I don't have any faith in the cons of Congress to help.
For the one I have I removed the brace setup and reinstalled the original pistol buffer tube I bought.
I'll probably, after I move, register it as a regular SBR.
As what IMHO, the trap will be is that you'll be stuck with the brace that was in it or you'll get in trouble for putting a regular stock on it.
I'd read the fine print AFTER it's officially entered into the Federal document registery.
Then I'd make a decision.

I don't know how many here get on YouTube but if all the people on there I highly recommend the Armed Scholar's channel. If I were to choose only one to follow there.