Question for cops - How badly to the bad guys suck?

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by BattleRifleG3, Sep 11, 2002.

  1. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    I remember in a post long ago someone (an present or former cop) said that violent criminals tend to be very poor shots. It makes perfect sense to me that people who aren't allowed to own guns couldn't practice in the light of day and thus couldn't gain any competence, while law abiding citizens who practice could easily outshoot criminals.

    My mother keeps insisting that most people who commit violent crimes were raised with guns and practiced with them, and I think it's bullcrap. People raised with guns are taught to respect them.

    Another question is if criminals are indeed poor shots, is it a wise course of action for an armed citizen to stand still in the path of fire in order to make one deadly shot, given adequte distance of course, say 25 feet.
  2. oneastrix

    oneastrix G&G Newbie

    Run like "h e double el!" The pricks always get lucky with the first shot!

  3. tommy

    tommy G&G Enthusiast

    tea i would run to you never know if he was a bad shot or not. it's like the great one said one time ( do you feel lucky punk)lol
  4. oneastrix

    oneastrix G&G Newbie

    Ya know, if they'd hold the dang Glock properly, and not "gang-banger-sideways" they might hit us on purpose instead of getting lucky!

    Case in Point

    1) Officer Hector Garza (San Antonio) was killed last year at a domestic. Kid had a Mac 10 or 11, which ever one is 9mm, fires from the hip from a distance of about fifteen feet and hits the officer square in the forehead.

    2)SWAT officer Rocky Riojas (San Antonio) ws killed about 18 months ago when he struggled to arrest a kid. Somehow, the kid was able to get the officer's duty Glock out of his leg holster, runs away from the officer. Fires one shot over his shoulder while running away, and kills Rocky with a single shot to the head.

  5. That's a difficult question to address as there are many, many variables, as I see it.

    I can draw from my memory of past shootings and all have something uncommon from the others.

    Where do I start?

    It depends on their location first. For example, I don't believe too many inner city thugs do much out of town practicing unless they belong to a gang that goes every now and then.

    (it's known that gangs like the biker gangs, the Crips, Blood, Mexican Mafia---oooo that's a good one, etc. do some pretty extensive firing practices.)

    On the other hand if they are from areas such as where I live, and have thousands of acres, some out their back doors, then more than likely they are more proficient in shooting.

    Most people envision most gun related crimes as being inner city thugs and thugettes but rural America has their share too.

    Next, you have to take into account the criminals mind set as far as his accuracy at the scene.

    The more nervous they are......the more scared they are........the more hurried they are........where they are.....etc., all account for them not being as accurate if they fire.

    If they are cool as a cucumber and have been there many times or they just don't care....or they think they have anything to lose... then more than likely if they shoot you're hit....possibly dead.

    Then come the numbers. If a criminal is accompanied he or she is more likely to be more confident.....cocky, as it were. If they shoot, likely you're hit. Cockiness falls back to an easiness they feel and hence, cool and comfortable.

    Then you have the weather as a factor....are they indoors or outdoors?

    Are they on drugs or alcohol or are they sober?

    Are they career criminals or the first time banger?

    BR, that's an interesting question and those are strictly MY thoughts and opinions.

    As One said, they have the dangdest luck sometimes.

    I've heard of cases involving ten.....twenty....thirty casings on the floor and no one is hit or seriously injured.

    Then you hear or know of the cases where there are three casings on the floor and two people are dead.

    Post edit remark: I forgot to add that many of the large inner city gangs DO go to the country and back roads and practice drive by shootings. That much is also known.
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2002
  6. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    I'd never heard of such people actually practicing. Thanks for the info.
  7. tommy

    tommy G&G Enthusiast

    alway think that the guy pointing the gun at you really knows how to shoot it. and iether hope you get the first shot .and if you don't get the first shot hope he really don't know how to use it.
  8. BR,

    I didn't mean to imply every thug practices.

    Some of the gangs I mentioned are quite large in numbers and prolific. Although gangs like the Bloods and Crips are generally fighting with each other and amongst themselves.

    The larger and more sophisticated groups are actually quite wealthy organizations with a structure much like a city government, with their own police, etc.

    Those are the groups most active in practicing.

    As early as the mid eighties one of the groups was known to also be practicing home invasion tactics for either extraction, burglaries, assualts on enemies, etc.

    BTW BR, I was sitting on the back patio and really got to thinking about this question.......I mean coming from a younger person of (assuming) little, if any, law enforecement training and I got to say your question is a very, very intelligent one. ^5!

    And, Tommy is right on the money to always assume the guy knows how to shoot. Heroics sometimes cause funerals and fatherless children and widows.
    Last edited: Sep 11, 2002
  9. BattleRifleG3

    BattleRifleG3 G&G Evangelist

    My law enforcement "training" is limited to what veteran cops like you guys pass on. I appreciate every word of it.
  10. Benny

    Benny Guest

    Ditto to what G3 says. I'm not in law enforcement but I take every word you veterans tell us to heart. I'm a youngin' and here to learn from you guys. Not to poke fun or call you "old farts." With age comes wisdom and we could all use some of that. Take it easy fellas and keep the wisdom rolling!

  11. Benny,

    I would never take offense if you, or anyone else, called me an old fart.

    I've had a good life.....expect many more years. I was in the limelight, so to speak, and my time came to get out.

    Now, it's up to the younger good folks , like you and BR, Mark II, etc., to keep the tradition going.

    We all talk about some of the short comings we sometimes see with the younger generation but I have faith that cool heads will prevail and make us all proud.

    We old timers used to sit around the roll call room and comment that society was like a pendulum and it had to eventually swing back to 'our' side.

    Now, I'm more of the opinion life, and society, is like a factory assembly line. As it moves on the product takes on a new form....a new look......a new society. There will be times when one side doesn't like the look or form but eventually, on down the assembly line, we see a form and production we least for a while.

    So, make us all old farts a product everyone will be proud of.
  12. hipowr

    hipowr Guest

    I would say generally, you can hope that rule holds up. There are always stories of non-functional guns in the hands of criminals, criminals who don't even know how to load them, etc. The problem that I always count on though is Murphy's Law, and it always tends to work against the good guys! It isn't necessarily the bad guys lucky day, but may not be my best. Always practice sound tactics and fight to live and you have done the best you can hope for to make it home at the end of the shift.