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Question from the newbie....

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by GrassHoppa, Aug 31, 2002.

  1. GrassHoppa

    GrassHoppa G&G Newbie

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    I'm taking down my Garand and I have a few questions.

    1)What are the most critical parts to keep clean?

    2)I don't yet have the complete kit for cleaning a Garand. (The store by me could not find the cleaning kit they thought they had)
    So, what can a person use to clean a Garand, that obviously won't be harmful to the gun or it's parts. Don't know why I added that, I know you guys wouldn't dare give another Garand owned info that you knew would lead the the increased degradation of a priceless rifle.

    Keep in mind that I have a few supplies for cleaning my Inglis and Baby eagle pistol. Is there anything else that I can use? Timing is critical here guys, obviously I don't want to let it sit too long.

    3)After shooting my Garand today I noticed that my Gas cyclinder lock screw was a little loose. Is this a bad thing? A sign of something wrong or just the screw not tightened enough?

    Any help would be appreciated as usual. Thanks a lot guys. :)
     
  2. GrassHoppa

    GrassHoppa G&G Newbie

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    Just as a side question, again from my "know-it-all" friend, he say's you can take stuff like your trigger assembly and dump it in a can of Varsol and let it sit and degrease it. Would you do it? 'Could' you do it? I guess that goes along with my cleaning material question. I also have some WD-40. Can you use that? Thanks again.
     

  3. JackT

    JackT G&G Newbie

    Buy scott's duff m1 o-guide. biggest thing is one piece cleaning rod
     
  4. Stock Doc

    Stock Doc G&G Evangelist

    I would have to say all part's are critical but also the Garand is made to take a beating. A few good points and I am sure some others can mention a few more are 1st Dont oil the gas cylinder area as it is Stainless and if oil gets caught up with carbon it will plug the gas system up. Next I use 130 grease I got from Brownells on the op rod lug slots and on under side where it rubs the barrel. The lugs on the bolt and any touching points. I use light oils on all other parts since were not going to spend a month in the rain outside with them there isn't a reason to treat most other areas with heavy grease. I do grease the op rod and trigger housing springs with the 130 and the rub point in the trigger group especially the hammer where it slams the bolt. Not allot as it will get slammed out the first firing so a little is perfect.
    I use a Dewey rod but any rod can still damage the muzzle and cause poor shooting performance. Be careful cleaning and it is recommended that you use a bore guide to keep the rod off the barrel. This is a big reason the 1917 and 1903 rifles still have a great bore since the were taught to clean from the bolt end after removing the bolt. With the Garand you have to go in from the muzzle end. When cleaning the gas system it is a good habit if you're gas cylinder is tight on the barrel to only remove the locking screw and lock then use a large patch and cleaning fluid on a pistol cleaning rod to clean out he gas cylinder. This way you dont loosen up the splines on the barrel and keep the sight tight. Remember to patch it out so it is dry before assembling it back together. Hope some of this helps. Rick B
     
  5. Gyrene

    Gyrene G&G Newbie

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    Grasshoppa - More rifles have been ruined by improper cleaning than have been ruined by NOT CLEANING. That said, as Stock Doc said, ALWAYS use a one piece cleaning rod AND ALWAYS use a guide to keep the rod from rubbing on the riflings at the muzzle. I will reaffirm Stock Docs statement DO NOT SHOOT the M1 Garand with a wet gas cylinder. It has to be dry when shooting.

    M1 Garand Gas Cylinder Lock Screws are notorious for coming loose, unless tightened properly. You tell me what is tightened properly, I understand it is tightened properly when it doesn't come loose. Some M1 Garands (read Gas Cylinder Lock Screws have a mind of their own) Just keep the tool handy, and check it every few shots, and retighten as necessary.

    Many people who shoot in competition never clean anything except the bore, and gas cylinder in a years' worth of competition. Each time you disassemble the rifle, it disturbs the locations of the parts and causes your sighting to be off ever so slightly, but enough that you need to readjust your sights.

    As to proper lubrication, a very light film of oil wiped dry, over the whole rifles' metal parts to prevent rust. All parts that show a shiney surface got that way because another part or parts were rubbing on them, and this is a key to where to put the grease, a little is good, a lot can be a problem. The little plastic containers of Lubriplate, and dark grease are usually found at every gun show, and some dealers who sell in the ShotGun News, SARCO is one. Sometimes one pound cans of Mil Spec. gun grease are available, and are an exceptional investment if you are going to shoot semiauto rifles. At the very least, grease lightly the operating rod, where it rubs against the bottom of the barrel, the Operating rod tab where it engages the receiver groove, the bolt lugs, the hammer point (it aligns with the bolt to prevent out of battery firing). A drop of oil at each of the pins in the trigger group.

    Speaking of the Trigger Group, clean it however you like, but unless it was submerged in bad water for a period of time, it is not necessary to soak it. It disassembles quite easily, but it is better to disassemble it with a friend who has some experience disassembling M1 Garand Trigger Groups. You do have Friends who have experience disassembling M1 Garand Trigger Groups here in this Forum.

    DO NOT LUBE THE SEAR!!! DO NOT LUBE THE SEAR!!! DO NOT LUBE THE SEAR!!! DO NOT LUBE THE SEAR!!! DO I NEED TO SAY IT AGAIN? An oily patch that is almost dry is OK to run across the Sear to prevent rust, then wipe it dry with a dry patch, and then wipe it dry again. I say this because sometimes even disassembling and reassembling a trigger group will cause the rifle to double, triple or dump all 8 rounds with one pull of the trigger. THIS MAY SOUND LIKE FUN, UNTIL YOU HAVE IT HAPPEN, THEN IT IS SCAREY AND DANGEROUS.

    A rifle firing a .30-06 or .308 round is pretty powerful, and very uncontrollable. After you have disassembled any semiauto rifle (or pistol), NEVER, NEVER put more than 2 rounds in the magazine when you fire it for the first time after reassembling it. If it doubles, then you are startled and not really sure it happened, but it is over in a couple of milliseconds, and no real harm is done, but you learned why you shouldn't fill the magazine (or use a full en-bloc clip in an M1 Garand).

    Get Scott Duff's M1 Garand Books, and many of the other M1 Garand books that are available, as well as Kuenhausen's (I don't remember how to spell his name) book on U. S. Gas Operated Service Rifles. YOU TOO CAN BECOME AN EXPERT!

    Reminds me, break down the word expert into two syllables, ex and xpert. An ex is a has been, and a xpert is a drip under pressure!

    Welcome to the world of the M1 Garand!!
     
    Last edited: Sep 1, 2002
  6. I think the correct spelling is "Kuhnhausen". Don't forget Bruce Canfield's 1998 ed. of his book on the M1 Garand/Carbine. Excellent overview and he does a nice job of illustrating the different parts.
     
  7. Do NOT use WD-40 on any firearms, they will rust.
     
  8. GrassHoppa

    GrassHoppa G&G Newbie

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    Ok. Thanks a lot for that post there Gyrene. That was a huge amount of info. That's just what I needed. OK, so I didn't clean my M1 untill I got back this weekend. So now I can take it apart again and grease it and stuff in the right places. As for the Gas cylinder, I won't touch it then until I get some more reading material. Well, geez thanks again there guys, that's a might big post there Gyrene, and I appreciate every bit of it. Anyway, gotta go get myself some books. Thanks again. :)
     
  9. GrassHoppa

    GrassHoppa G&G Newbie

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    Oh geeez. I almost forgot to mention. That exact thing happened to me on my last two rounds during shooting. My very last two rounds both went off. So quick I almost didn't realize what had happened. So, is there some thing I need to do to correct for that? I kinda don't want it to happen again, obviously.

    Never mind. After reading your post again...geez. I'll just make sure the sear is all dry and clean right? Nothing more? I'll just do that.
     
    Last edited: Sep 2, 2002
  10. Cleaning the M1

    GrassHoppa, these guys are right! You may want to invest in a brass cleaning rod since it will do less damage to your barrel. It still should have a bore guide!

    I also use a Bore Snake to clean my Garand from the chamber end. It is really handy for a quick scrub at the range!

    Contact Tapco.com if you want some of the GI grease in the little cups that fit in the buttstock of your Garand. They sell 144 cups for $14.99.

    Hope this helps.

    WildBill
    :D
     
  11. Grasshoppa@Work

    Grasshoppa@Work G&G Newbie

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    All of it helps there Bill! Much appreciated! God ****, I love talking to people who love guns too! Makes it so much more satisfying. Thanks again.
     
  12. Gyrene

    Gyrene G&G Newbie

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    Grasshoppa@Work - A bit of information regarding ammo. If the ammo is US Manufactured before about 1960, or is foreign manufactured, there is a very good chance that it is or could be corrosive. Mildly corrosive is CORROSIVE. There are some exceptions to this but not many. Danish is an exception for one, Malaysian for another, . . . If you are not sure whether it is corrosive or not, then IT IS CORROSIVE, and treat it accordingly!

    Mercury Fulminate is the source of the Corrosiveness, leaving Mercuric Chloride in the bore and gas cylinder as well as anywhere the powder deposits found metal, and it is found in the primers. Later primers use Lead Styphnate, which is not anywhere near as corrosive, and a good cleaning of the rifle will prevent its corrosive action.

    Dealing with CORROSIVE ammo, is a different thing than dealing with ammo that is not corrosive. There are some products on the market for reducing the corrosive effects that are different than what I am going to tell you, but you will have to deal with that on your own, or with help from others on this Forum.

    Generally when you have fired corrosive ammo, the best thing to do is to disassemble the whole rifle, and scrub the metal parts with HOT SOAPY WATER. THIS MUST BE DONE WITHIN HOURS OF SHOOTING THE CORROSIVE AMMO! After finishing a good scrub down, then pour boiling water over the metal parts including through the bore. Now you are ready to do a normal cleaning using bore cleaner and whatever else you would normally use, finishing with a light coating of oil to prevent rust.

    Some people have their own ways of dealing with the corrosive ammo, but keep in mind that there are some really old rifles out there that have pristine bores, and they only had corrosive ammo to fire in them. The reason the bores are pristine is that the owners took care to clean them properly immediately after shooting. Some are wasted, and they got that way because they simply were left and not cleaned.

    Corrosive ammo is very good sometimes, and one thing it has going for it, is that it is usually cheap, and we need every price break we can get.
     
    Last edited: Sep 3, 2002
  13. GrassHoppa

    GrassHoppa G&G Newbie

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    Ok, well as for the corrosive rounds, I don't have to worry. I've only bought 4 boxes of Winchester 30-06 Spr. Winchester stuff is supposed to be non-corrosive. Unfortunatly, my chances to go out shooting are slowly dwindling. So I think I'll have lots of time to clean my gun. As for surplus ammo, I haven't got a hold of any stuff yet. When I do though, I'll check and see if it's corrosive or not. Thanks for that. I'd feel horrible if my peice of American history was tarnished because I didn't listen to you or do my home work. As usual Gyrene, much appreciated.

    Ahhhhh, let me bask in the knowledge that you provide and be more knowledgable myself. :)
     
  14. Grasshoppa--

    Read this, this will help you out--


    How to properly clean after using corrosive ammo

    This is how I do it... it's easy, it's fast, and it's effective. Best of all you can do it while still on the firing-line and thus not offend your significant other with the usually pungent stench of commercial cleaners in your home.

    Dilute regular household ammonia (sudsy is best but regular is OK too) to 2/1 or 3/1 with water (it can be as much as 10/1 if the smell really gets to you). Keep in a small bottle to take with you to the range but label it well so you don't mistake it for contact-lens solution or something (yeeeowww!)

    After you are done firing and while still at the range moisten (not dripping-wet, but sorta-soaked) a patch and run it down the bore and back once. This instantly will neutralize and dissolve the corrosive salt-compounds from the primers and start in on the copper and powder fouling with a vengeance.

    Let stand for thirty seconds or so (just enough time to take off and throw away the ammonia-patch you just used and put a new, dry patch on your rod). Run the dry patch (or several) down the bore and you are most literally done.

    DON'T OVERDO IT! More ISN'T better in this case...

    You really don't want to slop ammonia (especially if heavily concentrated) all over the blued parts of the gun (as it will likely start to remove bluing after 30 minutes or so) and you also shouldn't leave the ammonia in the bore for an extended period of time (like hours, although I do know folks who do that anyway) as that may (not WILL, but MAY) cause "crazing" (microscopic pitting) of the metal. I also have to caution against slopping ammonia on the wooden parts of your rifle, as it will usually strip the finish down to bare-wood, BUT if you follow my advise on HOW MUCH ammonia to use (only enough to dampen, but not soak, a single patch per gun) you will not EVER experience ANY problems at all...

    If you are worried about primer residue getting on the bolt-face you may want to quickly wipe it with the wet patch before throwing the thing away and quickly dry it. Same thing with the gas-tube in a semi-automatic rifle... don't go overboard, just wet it and dry it and get done with it.

    As a final precaution (since the ammonia will also kill all lubricants and leave the metal very dry) you can run a patch of gun-oil down the bore and leave it like that for protection from the elements (just be sure to run a dry patch down the bore before shooting it again).

    However, if you are (like some folks I have met) completely obsessed about leaving traces of ANY powder or copper residue in the bore of your weapon, you can certainly follow up your "field-cleaning" with a detailed, strenuous, traditional cleaning once you are home (or in a week or month from then). But I warn you... your bore is much more be likely to be damaged from your over-enthusiastic scrubbing to get out that "last speck of copper" (which has no affect on the actual accuracy of your firearm) than it will with all the rounds you could possibly send down it during your lifetime.
     
  15. GrassHoppa

    GrassHoppa G&G Newbie

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    See! You guys are great, but my significant other just thinks you're filling my head with nonsence! HA! We all know the truth. Just kiddin though, she's not oppressive or anything, just doesn't fancy firearms like I do. Thanks Itcboy.
     
  16. Gyrene

    Gyrene G&G Newbie

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    GrassHoppa - Like I said, others have their methods, and I don't disagree with them. As advised "Go easy on the Ammonia on the blued parts, and wood! It can, and will cause the described damage!"

    Keep in mind, that water will cut the concentration down, and consequently the damage if you unintentionally get the ammonia where it shouldn't be. Just immediately flood the area with water, or immerse it and swish it around, to reduce the concentration of the ammonia.

    By the way, the M1 Garand was designed to shoot 147/150 grain bullets. Many match shooters use 165, 168, & 173 grain bullets (some use different weights). Do not use anything over 180 grain. I know, there are many people who have done so without problems, but you can cause a receiver failure, with too heavy a bullet weight.

    Hunting ammo was designed to be used in a bolt action rifle, where you shoot, and then open the bolt, rechamber a round, and so on, with no timing characteristics to worry about. Semiautomatic rifles depend upon timing effects of the ammo pressures to work satisfactorily. Most hunting ammo could damage an M1 Garand, by having the pressure spike at the wrong time, due to the burn rate of the powder, even if the bullet weight is reasonable, for the M1 Garand.

    If you load your own (I don't think you do, by your comments about buying your ammo), then there are several powders that are very good, but I will mention the one that works best in most M1 Garands, and that is IMR4895. I believe that is what Federal Gold Medal Match ammo uses, 41.5 grains of IMR4895 behind a 168 grain boat tailed bullet. You will find it hard to beat, as a standard load for target shooting. Of course each rifle is different, but most M1 Garands do their best with Federal Gold Medal Match, or similar loads. You will find that Federal Gold Medal Match is expensive, so I would not recommend it for just shooting as an activity. If you are shooting a serious match, then it would do well.
     
    Last edited: Sep 4, 2002
  17. WyrTwister

    WyrTwister G&G Newbie

    Garand lube & cleaning

    All parts subject to high speed friction -> grease . I use the white lithium based axel greas , in one pound can , from the auto parts store . Luberplate is one brand .

    Gun oil on the rest of the metal , except the vas system , these need to be dry .

    Boiled linseed oil on the wood , hand rubbed .

    I use a .30 caliber LONG one piece coated sreel rod .

    I use Shooters Choice copper remover followed by Hoppies # 9 , to clean the bore & gas system .

    Wyr
    God Bless