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Range Report

Discussion in 'The Powder Keg' started by Mike the JAG, Jun 12, 2002.

  1. Mike the JAG

    Mike the JAG G&G Newbie

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    First trip to the range was a qualified success. FAL fired every time I pulled the trigger, didn't explode or fall apart, fed and ejected manually. That's the qualified part. No matter where I set the gas regulator, the action would not cycle. Checked to see that the piston would move in the gas tube. Checked to make sure the "A" was up. After I got home, checked to make sure the hole in the gas block wasn't blocked. Wish I had thought of that at the range. Any ideas on what could be causing the problem?
     
  2. Mike,
    I have a manual for a T48, which is basically a FAL. Wasn't sure exactly what the problem was, so I will use the Beehive method and cover everything. Looking in the troubleshooting section, here is what I found =
    Failure to Extract:
    1. Insufficient gas = adjust regulator
    2. Hard extraction due to dirty chamber
    or poor cartridges = clean chamber,
    change ammo
    3. Broken extractor = replace
    4. Extractor sring too weak or broken = replace

    Failure to feed:
    1. see #1 above
    2. Recoil springs too weak = replace springs

    I have some experience with M-14s,and while I understand that this is a different gun, it and the FAL are more alike than a lot of people want to admit. One thing that I cannot over-emphasize is the importance of having a clean chamber. ANY semi auto has to have a clean chamber to function it's best. I recently fired my FAL, and one thing that caused mine to fail to cycle every time was Sellior Bellot ammo. I don't know if it would have changed if I would have adjusted the gas system; I changed mags and went to M-80 ball. Not one failure after that.
    Hope out of all of this, something will help. Good luck and let us know how it turns out.
     

  3. Mike the JAG

    Mike the JAG G&G Newbie

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    Thanks for the ideas. I think I found the problem. I tried to eliminate all the other potential problems and came to the conclusion that the gas port was too small. Opened it up to 7/64 and the rifle will cycle. I have to close the gas regulator all the way, though. If it is opened even half a notch, the rifle will not cycle reliably. I would prefer it to work about mid range of the gas adjustment settings. How tight should the gas regulator be? I can turn mine easily by hand. Could I be losing enough pressure there to matter? Just in case you didn't know, after you have fired about thirty rounds, that gas regulator is hot. The ammunition was Remington .308 150 grain. I don't remember the specs on M-80 ball. Is it hotter than factory .308?
     
  4. I'm glad that it's working now. I think that M80 ball is hotter than Rem, but I don't know by how much. I went to the range yesterday and tried the last of the Sellior Bellot ammo. I had the gas regulator on 1, and most of the time it would cycle the action. Still had quite a few stoppages. The gas regulator on mine gets hot after about 30 rounds as well. I think it should be tight enough that it will hold adjustment when the rifle is subjected to normal combat operations, whatever those are. Mine is pretty loose as well, and by the amount of carbon that builds up around the front post, I think it is probably loosing quite a bit of gas. Understanding that the vent hole will always have carbon around it after firing, I just think that mine is leaking like the proverbial collander thing. The one thing that I really hope to fix on mine is the recoil. While I am not complaining, this thing kicks like a ******* . I have ordered a recoil buffer for the FAL (this works very well in my 14) and the BBT should show up at least twice today, maybe more. This is exactly why one should not drink and be on the internet at 3 AM. I recently woke up with a printed receipt for a SAR 1 AK47. BUY IT NOW seemed like a cool idea at the time....... :D
     
    Last edited: Jul 8, 2002
  5. picture of FAL

    This is the place I go to shoot. It's about 20 miles from here, and I get unlimited access to it with my 20 dollar membership in a local sportsmens club. I have shot 1000 yd matches here with the guard team that I shoot for.
     

    Attached Files:

  6. Another picture
     

    Attached Files:

  7. Mike the Jag;

    Your problem could stem from a fouled gas access port (from the barrel to the piston). The port on the top of the gas system just regulates the amount of the gas to the piston. If you are using the #0 setting to make the rifle cycle, you are getting insufficient gas to the system. Causes: 1- ammo is creating to little back pressure on the system or 2- insufficient gases escaping into the gas cylinder. Take your gas plug out and the piston and examine your gas access port (about 1/2" in from the plug head) and check it with a small pick to ensure it is clean. Hope this helps.
     
  8. Mike the JAG

    Mike the JAG G&G Newbie

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    I'll check that. Thanks.
     
  9. WyrTwister

    WyrTwister G&G Newbie


    Any gas leaking between the barrel port and the assembly on which the gas asjustment is located ?

    Are the gas piston & cylinder in spec ?

    Wyr
    God Bless
     
  10. WyrTwister

    WyrTwister G&G Newbie

    Actually , with the gas adjusted correctly , I consider the recoil of the FAL to be very moderate .

    Wyr
    God Bless
     
  11. Mike the JAG

    Mike the JAG G&G Newbie

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    Piston measures about .430, tube is slightly larger, I don't remember the measurement. The head of the piston gets blackened and about 1/8" down the piston. Both are new TAPCO parts. I'm not sure I understand where you are talking about on the possible leak. Do you mean the threads in the gas block and on the gas tube? There was a little carbon there, but not too much.
     
  12. WyrTwister

    WyrTwister G&G Newbie

    I am probably not useing the correct terms but here goes . The front sight assembly is attached to the barrel & the gas port in the barrel alligns ( I hope ) with this . The gas follows thei path , past the " gernade launching gass shut off " , part is vented to the air , at the gas adjustment " ring " and the rest enters the gas tube & pushes the gas puston , along its way .

    I was wondering if you were leaking gas where the front sight assembly fits the barrel , also be sure the gas port in the barrel is alligned ( not partially covered up ) by the front sight assembly .

    Also , check to see if the gas port is open .

    Check to see if the gas piston slides freely . Remove the gas piston spring & lock the bolt back . Tilt the rifle up and down , piston should slide freely , back into the receiver ( part way ) and froward to the gas cut off . All this without binding .

    I do not have the specs for the tube & piston , hopefully some one will post that info . Carbon on the " stem " od the piston is not out of the ordinary .

    Wyr
    God Bless
     
  13. Mike the JAG

    Mike the JAG G&G Newbie

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    The gas block is tight, the gas port is open, the piston slides freely. I think I might get a new gas regulator and try that, just for lack of anythig else to try.
     
  14. WyrTwister

    WyrTwister G&G Newbie


    Best I remember , the gas regulator / adjustment changes the amount of gass that is vented to the atmosphere . Unless it is leaking in plases it is not suspose to , I can off hand not think how it could be defective .

    Do you have a buddy that has a functional FAL that you could try tradeing parts with ?

    The main recoil spring is inside a tube ( I think ) inside the stock . I seem to remember reading od the possability of the tube being bent , warped or kinked , thus increasing friction .

    Does the bolt and carrier slide back and forth , freely in the receiver ( with the action open ) ? I seem to remember reading of Gear Logo Imbels that had the larkings struck too hard & the inside of the receiver had to be smoothed out with a small file or stone .

    What are you useing for lube ?

    Also , lube the underside of the bolt carrier & the top of the hammer , where they rub .

    Best of luck,
    Wyr
    God Bless
     
  15. Mike the JAG

    Mike the JAG G&G Newbie

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    Bolt carrier moves freely, recoil spring tube is straight and clean. No gear logo on this IMBEL. Used WD-40 for lube. Everyone was right, you really do get to know the rifle when you put it together. Of course, if she turns out to be a pain in the neck...
     
  16. WD-40 is only a break free oil and eveporates very quickly. Use a quality gun oil for your lubing. Something you might check is the gas regulator (the gas adjustment thingy) for any cracks. If it is cracked and you fire the rifle, virtualy all the gas escapes. Give it a good visual inspection for any anomalies (cracks) and if you can, take it off the rifle and give it another examination (try placing a set of needle nose pliars inside the regulator and open them up, look for a crack). Replace it if you see a crack, although not dangerous to the shooter, that is where all of you gas is going.
     
  17. WyrTwister

    WyrTwister G&G Newbie


    Do not know what the " offical " FAL lube is , but I would use something thicker than WD-40 .

    I have used gun oil and / or lithium based grease ( Garands like this ) .


    Wyr
    God Bless
     
  18. Mike the JAG

    Mike the JAG G&G Newbie

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    Thanks, guys. I know WD-40 isn't the best, but it was all I had handy.
     
  19. WyrTwister

    WyrTwister G&G Newbie



    The gas regulator is suspose to get hot , it works by venting none - part - all the gas , to the atmosphere . The gas is hot .

    Turn it one way , it vents all the gass & it will not cycle , turn all the way the other way , it only vents a tiny amont .

    In a perfect world , it would be in the middle , to allow you to compensate for different brands off ammo and to allow you to turn the gass up , in an extended firing situation , as the gun gets dirty .

    If you sre leaking gas around the barrel / front sight , you might try to get it as clean as you can & try to flow some sorder into the gap .

    As I understand it , the front sight assembly is not commonly replaced , seperate from the barrel .

    If no other fix works ( after you have tried diffeerent ammo ) , you might open the gas port up a tiny bit more . Not whatever bit they happpen to have at Home Depo , go to a place that sells TOOLS to the Professionals . Get the next size larger bit . Remember , once tou remove the metal , it is dificult to put it back .

    You get the gas adjusted to the point that it will barely cycle reliably , then one number more on the gas regulator . It will shoot as sweet as a kitten and run like a sewing machine .

    Recoil is very mild on my rifle . Much less than a light bolt rifle . If recoil is a problem for you , install a muzzle break .

    Wyr
    God Bless
     
  20. WyrTwister

    WyrTwister G&G Newbie

    There too , maybe , but I was refering to where the front sight assembly fits around the barrel .

    Wyr
    God Bless