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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
So, many of you know I got beat up a bit last year on my sled and have been recovering. I shot a few of my rifles recently and did okay with most except for my 45/70 and 457 WWG. I haven't had issues with those in the past (nothing beyond the routine soreness expected from those sort of rifles), but now, it's pretty unpleasant (think lightning bolt pain). I have been researching recoil suppression (mercury tubes and such) and I would like your thoughts or experiences.

Maybe I need a bit more time to recover before shooting those again, but I think some added help would be nice. BTW, I already have decent recoil pads on the stocks.

And NO! I am not selling them to you or anyone else馃槢
 

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I have a little experience with a mercury recoil reducer. I had detached the tendon to my bicep, torn rotator cuff, impingement and torn labrum in my shooting shoulder about 15-20 years ago. I was pretty sensitive to recoil before my surgery, but I was still doing a lot of waterfowl hunting with a 12 ga Benelli Nova, shooting 3" and 3-1/2" BB or Ts for geese.

I added the Benelli mercury recoil reducer to that shotgun stock without a huge improvement in felt recoil and ended up removing it because it just made that gun too heavy to want to carry around. Later I added a Limbsaver recoil pad which did make some improvement. My personal experience (although limited) is that gun fit, and a good recoil pad are better investments than the recoil reducer.

Shooting the same ammo out of my Benelli Super Black Eagle has always been softer so I think that goes back to fit.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I have a little experience with a mercury recoil reducer. I had detached the tendon to my bicep, torn rotator cuff, impingement and torn labrum in my shooting shoulder about 15-20 years ago. I was pretty sensitive to recoil before my surgery, but I was still doing a lot of waterfowl hunting with a 12 ga Benelli Nova, shooting 3" and 3-1/2" BB or Ts for geese.

I added the Benelli mercury recoil reducer to that shotgun stock without a huge improvement in felt recoil and ended up removing it because it just made that gun too heavy to want to carry around. Later I added a Limbsaver recoil pad which did make some improvement. My personal experience (although limited) is that gun fit, and a good recoil pad are better investments than the recoil reducer.

Shooting the same ammo out of my Benelli Super Black Eagle has always been softer so I think that goes back to fit.
Good to hear of your experience with that. Your comment about adding weight seems to be a common theme. I have been hearing about successes with them as well as failures - - about a 50/50 spilt. I am hoping to identify the common factors for both success and failures before I make a decision.

You make a good point about fitting stocks. All my rifle and shotgun stocks have been custom fitted to me, and you are absolutely right about it being a worthwhile investment. That said, I may just need to give myself some extra time to heal.
 

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just reduce your loads.
the 45-70 using 10grs. of Unique and a 350gr. bullets is actually pleasant to shoot.
it's also plenty enough for deer hunting.
need a litlle more?
go to my favorite.
20-22.5grs of 2400 and a 400-425gr cast bullet.
that's above black powder speeds but not obnoxious, and it'll put 2 holes in anything your gonna deal with up there out to 150yds easy by just pointing and pressing the trigger.

i use 24grs of 2400 and a 425gr. gas check bullet for Elk hunting the thick stuff.
ain't no Elk/Moose gonna slow that bullet down much, and it's probably over kill really.
 

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I like R5R鈥檚 answer, if you reload. Otherwise, hang them up for a while longer. It鈥檇 be a shame to add weight to rifles that are made to be quick and handy.

A lot of companies produce 45/70 loads that are made for the old trapdoor rifles. Those may be comfortable to shoot.
 

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it鈥檚 not what you want to hear I鈥檓 sure, but you may need to move to a softer cartridge for a while.
There鈥檚 a lot of variables to felt recoil, as you know. Stock shape matters some, recoil pads help, and weight makes a real difference. Force is of course calculated as mass times acceleration, more rifle mass means less equal and opposite reaction felt on your shoulder from bullet mass being accelerated rapidly. But, personal experience has shown me big cartridges just have more felt recoil. My 300 win mag has a good recoil pad, weighs a lot, and has a good brake on it. I鈥檝e tamed the recoil about as much as possible on my long-range rifle. It still pushes on me harder than my lightweight .308 Ruger American.
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
it鈥檚 not what you want to hear I鈥檓 sure, but you may need to move to a softer cartridge for a while.
There鈥檚 a lot of variables to felt recoil, as you know. Stock shape matters some, recoil pads help, and weight makes a real difference. Force is of course calculated as mass times acceleration, more rifle mass means less equal and opposite reaction felt on your shoulder from bullet mass being accelerated rapidly. But, personal experience has shown me big cartridges just have more felt recoil. My 300 win mag has a good recoil pad, weighs a lot, and has a good brake on it. I鈥檝e tamed the recoil about as much as possible on my long-range rifle. It still pushes on me harder than my lightweight .308 Ruger American.
Funny thing is I am able to shoot my 300 wby without issue - - then again, I do have it braked. I agree, I may just need some more time to heal up, and in the meantime I'll experiment with some reduced loads to at least keep me active. 馃槉
 

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I agree with R5R and others. I shoot the 45-70 Guide Gun and 300 Weatherby as my big ones too, and once in a while the Rem 870 3.5 inch with 3.5 inch shells, they will rattle your gums. I blew out both shoulders i 2005 and got all sorts of neck and arm damage, some hereditary and some from a fool that his us from the rear at 105 mph. When I fire anything heavy it hurts from my wrist to my toes, LOL. That said, I ain't gonna not shoot them. First thing I did was downsize my deer gun to a 257 Weatherby, you gotta reload or go to a 25-06, only about 200 fps with most loads anyway, that is only about 1 inch difference at 350 yards. THE 257 with 100 grain bullets at 3,400 fps will kill any 300 pound deer like magic, killed a dozen now, 3 at 282 yard, 328 yards and 403 yards, all one shot deals. The recoil is much lighter and liveable.

For the 45-70, I cast a 340 grain Lee Bullet that I can load from 14.5-17 grains of Unique. Has plenty of thump to 100 yards and recoil like a 410, any kid can shoot it.

For the 300 Weatherby, I simply use the lead sled solo. You have a brake so that should help. But with the led sled I can still shoot the big thumper and like to do so once in a while. In fact the led sled just solves a lot of problems, It also lets you do some long distance shooting. which adds to the enjoyment.

I have pending neck surgery and told there will be no shooting big stuff for 5-6 months, so I have been getting ready with my 223 bolt gun, put a 6 x 24 x 50 scope on it and also have a Ruger Precision Rimfire. So, I can shoot and have basically no recoil.

There is something about the 45-70 that just requires it be shot once in a while. With 14.5 grains of Unique it is only about 1,150 fps and truly fun to shoot. We have an 88 yard range so we sight it in for that. Here are the ballistics and most trap door loads should be about the same, just to give you and idea.

Font Parallel Screenshot Number Rectangle

Only 6.3 inches low at 150 yards and still has 769 foot pounds about the same as a 41 mag at the muzzle, so nothing to sneeze at. And those 340 grain bullets have a lot of momentum. Amazing for such a wimpy load to have so much power. I am told they will shoot through any mule deer length ways.

Anyway, that is how I am coping maybe it will work for you.
 

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www.midwayusa.com/product/1002531259/
Definitely saves wear and tear on the shoulder.
Yes. I have used the Past pad for decades. Was not aware they had a Mag "Plus" version. I see that it is 1 inch thick where the normal rifle pad is 1/2 inch. Shooting the hottest 300 Weatherby and 45-70 loads is more fun when it does not hurt. This thicker pad looks like something I should try.

I use the led sled solo for actual sight in work on the 300 Weatherby and others, but enjoy shooting the others off hand. The days of bragging about black and blue shoulder are long gone for me. Who wants to see a 72 year old guy with a blue shoulder? Nobody. Definitely not me.

Thanks for posting.
 

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Way back in the AF (mid 1980s) when I was in SAC, we had to qualify annually with short barrel shotguns, 00 buck, and no recoil pads. It would beat you up. I went out and bought some firm 1 inch thick foam, some fabric and made an inside the shirt recoil pad. It would slide partially into the sleeve to hold it in place and the rest would cover the shoulder where the buttstock rested when shooting. Next qualification was easy peasy, no pain or discomfort. We had one young female troop in our class that didn't hold the shotgun tightly to her shoulder and when she pulled the trigger a pained expression came across her face. She didn't qualify and would have to go back in 30 days to retry. Next day at work (she worked in the same complex area I did) I took my recoil pad and told her to use it when she goes to requalify then give it back. I showed her how to wear it. She also said she had some horrible bruises on her shoulder and they hurt like crazy.
Fast forward, she did use the recoil pad, qualified, didn't experience any pain or discomfort, and handed the recoil pad back with much gratitude.
Basically, you can make one for yourself, I'm not good at sewing but did use my wife's sewing machine. I added a couple of snaps along the bottom to allow inserting the foam and closing it back up (without having to sew it shut).
 

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I use a slip on Simms recoil pad for benchwork. I can remove it in 2 sec. and use it all the time at the bench. For hunting I don't use it, I just bear the pain. My right shoulder is bone on bone and needs to be replaced. However, I just had a right eye retina detachment repaired and don't know how well my sight will return. I might have to learn to shoot and see left handed. I tried it and what a disaster it was. I know muscle memory has much to do with it. But 60 years of shooting right handed makes this a chore that may never come around. Load down for practice and hope you can deal with full power loads for hunting.
 

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I use a slip on Simms recoil pad for benchwork. I can remove it in 2 sec. and use it all the time at the bench. For hunting I don't use it, I just bear the pain. My right shoulder is bone on bone and needs to be replaced. However, I just had a right eye retina detachment repaired and don't know how well my sight will return. I might have to learn to shoot and see left handed. I tried it and what a disaster it was. I know muscle memory has much to do with it. But 60 years of shooting right handed makes this a chore that may never come around. Load down for practice and hope you can deal with full power loads for hunting.
WOW Ron. Sorry to hear about the shoulder pain, sounds familiar at my house, and with neck/spine surgery pending, I feel your pain. I have eye issues too and the left eye is the better eye. Going to take some time for me too, I plan to use the rimfire and 223 bolt gun to work on the left hand shooting, it just don't feel right.

Many of us just need to find a smaller caliber. I am a firm believer that most of us use much more gun than necessary. I used a 30-06 and 300 Weatherby for many years. But then I learned, I killed my biggest mule deer and Boone and Crocket with one round from a 243. I then killed an antelope at well over 400 yards with the 243. I then killed one of my biggest whitetail with that 243, a little over 300 yards. I never lost an animal with the 243, not one and all were one shot kills. But I always wanted something bigger and better and bought into the hype.

I then used the 30-06 and 300 for 15 or so years, forgetting about my success with the 243. In 2010, I bought a 257 Weatherby, Vanguard and have killed 11 or so deer with it, both mule and whitetail, one over 400 yards, one at 282 and one at 328 last Nov. None required 2 shots.

Point is both the 243 and the 257 Weatherby with 100 grain bullets will kill any deer anywhere. Recoil is mild in a full size gun, I can shoot it all day long, the 300, no way, the 45-70, no way. If the animal is still and 350-375 yards or so, the hold is dead on then nothing really matters but the trigger squeeze. And the recoil is mild. I would not use the 243 or 257 guns on elk but up to any large mule deer . The deer I have killed with the 257 have been weighed, field dressed most around 175 pounds, but the range is 163-183 pounds hanging weight, so those are all pretty big deer. All of those were whitetails. Never had one run more than maybe 40 yards.

I am not a fan of the 6.5 Creedmore and all of those, but they are in that low recoil category and should work just fine, only issue is they are not as flat for the range 0-350 yards where I kill most game. But for old guys with weak shoulders and kids they are a great deer gun. Richard Mann at Field and Stream just did an article comparing the 6.5 Creed and 243 as a hunting arm, good read, and basically my 50 year experience as well, with the 243.
6.5 Creedmoor vs 243 Winchester | Field & Stream (fieldandstream.com) He claims the 243 has a 15% less recoil advantage.

He concluded this"

"""Out to 400 yards, I鈥檝e seen various .243 Winchester big-game bullets work to perfection on deer and pronghorn. My wife used a .243 and an 85-grain Nosler Partition in Africa to take gemsbok, wildebeest, and impala, all with one shot each. (Now you see why I respect that bullet so much.) For all manner of varmints and for small to medium big game, I think the .243 Winchester is an ideal cartridge inside 450 yards.
Because my son likes the 6.5 Creedmoor, I鈥檝e seen a lot of animals taken with it. His first was a blesbok at more than 500 yards in a gale-force wind. Inside 400 yards, and on game up to 500 or so pounds, I鈥檝e never been able to tell the difference in the performance of the Creed and the .243. I have taken some larger beasts with the Creed than I have the .243. Even with some bad shooting on a Newfoundland hunt, I took a big black bear, a woodland caribou, and a moose using a Creed and Nosler鈥檚 140-grain AccuBond."""

I do not have experience with the Creed but having killed animals beyond 400 yards and huge whitetail and mule deer with the 243, I just think for those of us who need less recoil and do not shoot beyond about 350-400 yards, the low recoiling 243 is simply a smart move.

So, in deciding if the smaller round is reasonable for anyone, just make a list of the people you know who have gotten a bruised shoulder from a 243 and then a list of the people who have gotten a bruise from the round you current use. Going to be a pretty short list with the 243. Nuf said. And you do not need that Past pad for a 243....

Not what the OP asked but one the same subject. She is up north, so the 243 has limitations, but for those of us down south....
 

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A good break can make a world of difference, too. A couple of years ago I watched a 5-foot-zero, petite, girl fire a .50 BMG from the shoulder. Her and her husband each have .50 BMG, but hers has a lot better brake.
I hate those darn brakes. However, you are correct. I fired a 300 Win Mag a buddy had and it kicked like da 243. My 300 Wby will slap you pretty good.
 

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So, many of you know I got beat up a bit last year on my sled and have been recovering. I shot a few of my rifles recently and did okay with most except for my 45/70 and 457 WWG. I haven't had issues with those in the past (nothing beyond the routine soreness expected from those sort of rifles), but now, it's pretty unpleasant (think lightning bolt pain). I have been researching recoil suppression (mercury tubes and such) and I would like your thoughts or experiences.

Maybe I need a bit more time to recover before shooting those again, but I think some added help would be nice. BTW, I already have decent recoil pads on the stocks.

And NO! I am not selling them to you or anyone else馃槢
Oh sure, you had me shoot those monsters and had absolutely no sympathy for my bruising at the end of the day other than offering me another glass of wine. 馃槢
 

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So, many of you know I got beat up a bit last year on my sled and have been recovering. I shot a few of my rifles recently and did okay with most except for my 45/70 and 457 WWG. I haven't had issues with those in the past (nothing beyond the routine soreness expected from those sort of rifles), but now, it's pretty unpleasant (think lightning bolt pain). I have been researching recoil suppression (mercury tubes and such) and I would like your thoughts or experiences.

Maybe I need a bit more time to recover before shooting those again, but I think some added help would be nice. BTW, I already have decent recoil pads on the stocks.

And NO! I am not selling them to you or anyone else馃槢
Were you possibly out of position on one of the shots? One bad shot could cause an initial pain that you were then more aware of on each follow up shot.
 
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