reloading for the 7.7 jap
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I do Norma brass when I find it. I also trim 30-06 once fired cases. Ive shot both .311 and 308. Rcbs ships the 308 resizer. Call them and they"ll send you a .311 resizer for free. Haven't done enough recorded shooting, but loaded with 125 grain, they go all over the place. I need to copy Norma's loadings.
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I have two 7.7 Jap Arisakas, and am just now in the process of working up some loads for them. (One of my Arisakas is missing parts on the bolt, haven't fired it yet--)
So far I have used both Norma Brass, and U.S. Mil. .30-06 cases that have been formed and trimmed, both work O.K., but I'm anxiously waiting for Graf and Sons to deliver the new line of brass they are coming out with, they will have 6.5 Italian Carcano , 7.7 Jap, 7.5 Swiss Schmidt-Rubin, and several others I load and shoot, for about half what you'd pay for Norma Brass! The brass is made by "Starline", and is primo stuff!
Will keep everyone posted, when I come up with some good accuracy loads, would also like to hear from other 7.7 reloaders.
Cheers, Shoot Safe!
Fred (Honcho)
So far I have used both Norma Brass, and U.S. Mil. .30-06 cases that have been formed and trimmed, both work O.K., but I'm anxiously waiting for Graf and Sons to deliver the new line of brass they are coming out with, they will have 6.5 Italian Carcano , 7.7 Jap, 7.5 Swiss Schmidt-Rubin, and several others I load and shoot, for about half what you'd pay for Norma Brass! The brass is made by "Starline", and is primo stuff!
Will keep everyone posted, when I come up with some good accuracy loads, would also like to hear from other 7.7 reloaders.
Cheers, Shoot Safe!
Fred (Honcho)
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211 Posts
Full Metal Jack, does RCBS make a 7.7 Jap neck sizing die? I'd like to get one, if they are available!
TNX,
Fred (Honcho)
TNX,
Fred (Honcho)
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21,197 Posts
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21,197 Posts
And one in 6.5 caliber:
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=10167085
http://www.gunbroker.com/auction/ViewItem.asp?Item=10167085
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211 Posts
Hi, NRA Joe!
Yup, ammo for the 7.7 Jap is no problem to find, and at least 2 U.S. ammo companies are making it. Reloading is even easier, as Graf & Sons is coming out with U.S.made "Starline Brass" cases for about half what you'd pay for the Swedish Norma brass, and you can also get U.S. Military .30-06 brass that has been formed and trimmed to 7.7 Arisaka, pretty cheap. I've used both, and they work well, am looking forward to when Graf comes out with theirs!
As to the Jap rifle, you can't go wrong with them as long as you get one of the earlier Model 99's, (NOT the "last ditch" models made just before the close of the war--) Matter of fact, they did a pressure test of the strengths of various WW II bolt action rifles, some years ago, and came up with a surprising conclusion! They tested the .303 British SMLE, the German Kar 98 Mauser, the U.S. Springfield 'O3-A3, and the Jap 7.7 Arisaka, the .303 SMLE blew up first, the Mauser blew up second, the Springfield blew up third, and the Jap Arisaka outlasted them all! They may be crude, by our standards, but strength-wise, they have no peer!
As to which American round to compare it to, I would say it's close to our .308/7.62 NATO, or 30-40 Krag, the fastest 7.7 Jap round loaded with a 150 Grain SP is rated at 2700 FPS at muzzle velocity, with the 174 Gr. RN, your fastest speed in FPS is 2400, at muzzle. With a lighter bullet you could get faster speeds, and it uses the same diameter bullet as the British .303 SMLE, so you could work up a careful load, I'm sure-- (The performance of the 7.7 Jap is most closely akin to the British .303, in performance--)
Just as an aside, I was stationed in Germany with the 3rd Armored Cav. Regt., HQ&HQ, back in 1961 and 1962, in Baumholder, don't know if you've been there, (I HOPE not LOL! In the little town of 5000 people, there were 65 bars!!!)
Hope I've been of some help!
Cheers,
Fred (Honcho)
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Thanks Fred, I've looked at those two on gunbroker for quite some time now. Maybe I'll buy the one in 7.7 after I find a nice bolt action tube fed .22 lr. Thats my priority right now. Yeah, I've been to Baumholder once...think it was during REFORGER in 1977...wasn't impressed. Thanks for all the info. There is a whole forum devoted to Jap guns by the BANZAI Club on:
www.gunbroker.com
www.gunbroker.com
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211 Posts
Hi again, Joe,
You should be able to get the 7.7 Arisaka sporter real cheap, as most of the people looking for them today want them all original, to Mil. specs, time was you could buy them for a song, but the collectors have moved in. (I saw pics of one guy who has hundreds of them, mounted on his walls, like wallpaper!) These rifles have a long history, and have seen service around the world, even in our Aleutian Islands, when the Japs sent an expedition there, in WWII! After the war, many were sent to China, to Chiang Kai Shek, to help fight Mao Tse Tung's communists. I have an excellent info sheet on the I.D. markings on them, if you need it, it tells which armory made it, the year, etc. They were even made in Korea, during WW II, when the Japs captured Korea!
I'll look up the Banzai website, thanks, to see if I can get a good deal on the bolt parts I need.
Even tho I'm of German extraction, and speak fluent German, I feel we should get our troops out of Germany, after the way they treated us in the (USELESS) U.N., with their Frog "allies"-- (Don't turn your back on them--) I still have cousins and relatives in Germany, but I think they have a short memory, on how we spent countless dollars, and American lives rebuilding Germany, and saved Europe from the Reds. I was glad to hear that some of the units returning from Iraq will not be returning to their former German bases, but will be redeployed in Poland. Good, I say, and the next time Europe is in trouble, I say screw them, let them fight it out for themselves! We can use the money right here, giving raises, and much needed new equipement to our armed forces. Hope you feel the same way!
Cheers,
Fred (Honcho)
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211 Posts
FM Jack, have you ever tried loading any 123 grain Hornady SP (.310) in the 7.7 Jap Arisakas, and if so, any luck with accuracy? Have been thinking of trying it--
Fred (Honcho)
I reload the Jap!
:nod: I have reloaded both the 6.5 and the 7.7 Jap. I have a sniper rifle that was found by my father inlaw in Japan in a wooden box. He brought it back and it checked out as real good steel (American) and a great barrel. Has the 30 inch barrel. Sporterized the stock and ported the barrel. All that own a Jap know about the trigger being hard to much with. But did put in a weaker spring and hone all the moving parts. Helped quite a bit. Planning to find a good gun smith that will remove the barrel and see about attaching it to a Remington 700 action. Want to chamber it for the full 30/06 case. I make all my 7.7 cases from Remington 30/06 cases.
Tipadoux
:nod: I have reloaded both the 6.5 and the 7.7 Jap. I have a sniper rifle that was found by my father inlaw in Japan in a wooden box. He brought it back and it checked out as real good steel (American) and a great barrel. Has the 30 inch barrel. Sporterized the stock and ported the barrel. All that own a Jap know about the trigger being hard to much with. But did put in a weaker spring and hone all the moving parts. Helped quite a bit. Planning to find a good gun smith that will remove the barrel and see about attaching it to a Remington 700 action. Want to chamber it for the full 30/06 case. I make all my 7.7 cases from Remington 30/06 cases.
Tipadoux
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211 Posts
HEY, ALL,
IN REGARDS TO WHO IS MAKING 7.7 JAP AMMO BESIDES NORMA, IT IS AVAILABLE, MAIL ORDER, FROM MIDWAY OR GRAF'S, MADE BY HORNADY, AS FAR AS I KNOW. HORNADY ALSO MAKES 6.5 JAP AMMO, RUNS ABOUT
$15.99/BOX OF 20. HAVEN'T ORDERED ANY OF THE 7.7 ARISAKA, (I RELOAD MINE--), BUT DO HAVE SOME OF HORNADY'S SUPERB 6.5 JAP.
GRAF'S LISTED THE 7.7 JAP AMMO AS BEING AVAILABLE BY FALL OF '04, IN THEIR DEALER'S CATALOG, BUT I DON'T HAVE A CURRENT CATALOG. YOU MIGHT TRY E-MAILING HORNADY, TO SEE IF THEY GOT IT TOGETHER.
CHEERS,
FRED (HONCHO)
:uzi:
IN REGARDS TO WHO IS MAKING 7.7 JAP AMMO BESIDES NORMA, IT IS AVAILABLE, MAIL ORDER, FROM MIDWAY OR GRAF'S, MADE BY HORNADY, AS FAR AS I KNOW. HORNADY ALSO MAKES 6.5 JAP AMMO, RUNS ABOUT
$15.99/BOX OF 20. HAVEN'T ORDERED ANY OF THE 7.7 ARISAKA, (I RELOAD MINE--), BUT DO HAVE SOME OF HORNADY'S SUPERB 6.5 JAP.
GRAF'S LISTED THE 7.7 JAP AMMO AS BEING AVAILABLE BY FALL OF '04, IN THEIR DEALER'S CATALOG, BUT I DON'T HAVE A CURRENT CATALOG. YOU MIGHT TRY E-MAILING HORNADY, TO SEE IF THEY GOT IT TOGETHER.
CHEERS,
FRED (HONCHO)
:uzi:
I did a simmilar thing I did to a car my Pappy done give'd tuh me. I taked the fenders off and replace tha ol' big engine wif a ford 429 and the front en wit won out a chey comaro and 4.11:1 rear end out of a cheby pick up. My Dady said some drunk movy acter got lost around here an runed out o gas told Paw he'd give 'im it for ryd back to the city. Well tha acter feller never caim back an pappy weld a hitch on it and used it tuh plow the field. I think Paw said the acter feller was name was Eddi Fin and car was call'd suppn lika Duzzenbird. Anyway it's real cool now.Tipadoux said:
I have two Jap rifles that I shoot several times a year. I have a long barreled one and the short service rifle.
I have the long one with the barrel floated, compensater holes drilled in the first 1 inch of the barrel. And although it still has the old trigger system, I cut the firing pin spring and it is a lot better.
My best group was a 1 inch 5 shot at 100 yards shooting the Sierra 174 grain match bullet and using IMR-4895 powder. I would have to look up the load because I haven't shot it for about a year. The long barreled rifle has a serial # of 745 and was made from special steel at one arsnal and the action in another. This was found on the web were you can find where and in what year the rifle was made. I have shot 30-06 cases in it and they work ok, the best being lake city match cases. The 30-06 cases will bulge out a bit right in front of the web as the 7.7 case tapers different than the 06 at that place in the case.
I have reloaded and shot a long barreled 7.7 Jap rifle for a few years. I don't shoot it like I used to. It was brought back from Japan after WII 2. The barrel was made in on arsnel and the action in another. The barrel has great riflings and a serial # of 743. It was made out of real good steel (Americian?) The barrel has been floated and compensator holes drilled in the first 1 inch of the barrel. I cut the firing pin down and drasticly improved the trigger pull. But found out that Timmy supplies one for it now. I have used both Norma and 30-06 cases with about the same results. The best 30-06 cases were Lake City Match. But I shoot mostly Norma. Best group was 1 inch at 100 yards. I also have a short service rifle that I left as is. If I had to it to do over again I would never have done anything to the long rifle.
I have the long one with the barrel floated, compensater holes drilled in the first 1 inch of the barrel. And although it still has the old trigger system, I cut the firing pin spring and it is a lot better.
My best group was a 1 inch 5 shot at 100 yards shooting the Sierra 174 grain match bullet and using IMR-4895 powder. I would have to look up the load because I haven't shot it for about a year. The long barreled rifle has a serial # of 745 and was made from special steel at one arsnal and the action in another. This was found on the web were you can find where and in what year the rifle was made. I have shot 30-06 cases in it and they work ok, the best being lake city match cases. The 30-06 cases will bulge out a bit right in front of the web as the 7.7 case tapers different than the 06 at that place in the case.
I have reloaded and shot a long barreled 7.7 Jap rifle for a few years. I don't shoot it like I used to. It was brought back from Japan after WII 2. The barrel was made in on arsnel and the action in another. The barrel has great riflings and a serial # of 743. It was made out of real good steel (Americian?) The barrel has been floated and compensator holes drilled in the first 1 inch of the barrel. I cut the firing pin down and drasticly improved the trigger pull. But found out that Timmy supplies one for it now. I have used both Norma and 30-06 cases with about the same results. The best 30-06 cases were Lake City Match. But I shoot mostly Norma. Best group was 1 inch at 100 yards. I also have a short service rifle that I left as is. If I had to it to do over again I would never have done anything to the long rifle.
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173 Posts
I've been loading the jap for some time and last year found out I could load 8MM Mouser brass by just resizing the neck and its a lot cheaper than Normas $1. per case, and shoots fine. I use mine for deer hunting and have done a lot of sporterizing on it. The best thing I did was put a very slight bevele , 1/6 inch or so on the top edge of the sear, that made a world of differance in the trigger pull. Just go in very small steps and keep checking to make sure the safty still works okay as you go, its easyer to take the bolt apart and put it together a bunch of times than it is to put metal back on the sear if you go too fast or too far.
After fixing the trigger pull,cutting down the barrle a few inches, bluing and adding a scope it still looked like an old military rife so I made a new thumb hole walnut stock for it, bedded the action and floated the barrle.
After fixing the trigger pull,cutting down the barrle a few inches, bluing and adding a scope it still looked like an old military rife so I made a new thumb hole walnut stock for it, bedded the action and floated the barrle.
Attachments
My shooting buddy start me on reloading for the Type 99 .I was start off with Norma brass and .311 bullet which is a bit pricey for plinking and I only have 100 rounds but once he started gave me the retired 30-06 case and coffee can full of pulled Moisin Nagant bullets I have plenty of ammo to plink with my Type 99. I started experimenting with 8 mm Turkish ammo converting them to 7.7 Jap using my broken sizing die ( the tip broken off so it won't decap the spend brass anymore ) I use Lee dipper to measure the original capacity of the 8 mm charge and then reduce them way down (I think I use #2.2 down to 1.9) I resized the bullet using Lee .313 and .311 lead sizing die. The load still kick like a mule but give me acceptable accuratecy at 50 and 100 yard just enough for my shooting pleasure.
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Sierra makes two .312 pistol bullets. one is a 71 gr FMJ and the other is
a JHP at 90 grains. My buddy and I studied the 270 and 25-06 loads
to try to come up with some load formulas and we chronoed the 71
gr bullet at 3760 fps and the 90 gr bullet at 3630 fps.
We dont know how accurate yet but we do know they both vaporize
water melons and I think would be awesome on varmints if they shoot
straight at all. Sometime this summer we should get together again
and shoot some targets with em. BTW was using Norma brass that
we saved from deer hunting season.
a JHP at 90 grains. My buddy and I studied the 270 and 25-06 loads
to try to come up with some load formulas and we chronoed the 71
gr bullet at 3760 fps and the 90 gr bullet at 3630 fps.
We dont know how accurate yet but we do know they both vaporize
water melons and I think would be awesome on varmints if they shoot
straight at all. Sometime this summer we should get together again
and shoot some targets with em. BTW was using Norma brass that
we saved from deer hunting season.
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